General discussion thread - keep the other threads clean 29 29

[miraclemet]

I asked if any books were pressed, he asked which ones, i answered:

He replied:

I then went in the thread and also posted the take it

Then he replied in the PM thread, with my reaction.

And then updated the listing

 

Agamoto has been pretty transparant about his side of the communication on this and we've both been quoting our pms in this discussion, so im assuming hes ok with the pms getting posed as well. 

As I've said, all of this stems from my reading of the word "think" (as far as "I think im going to pull it") and the delay between him wanting to pull the book and him pulling the book

 

[miraclemet]

2 hours ago, Hudson said:

@agamoto @miraclemet

Would either of you be willing to share a screen shot of the actual PMs involved so that board members can make a more informed "decision" in this dispute?

See above

[miraclemet]

Its actually funny that we both used the word "think"

I said i was "thinking about a bundle of" AV8 and IH141

...and no one would read that as  something that i could be held to. Ie. Thinking about taking a book isnt taking a book, thinking about making an offer isnt making an offer.

Just like thinking about pulling a book from a sales thread isnt the same as pulling a book from the sales thread.

 

And yes i came here to grumble. Cause i missed out on a book i wanted due to some grey area stuff, so i came over here to cry in my beer, as does happen in this thread, but also to gauge if i was over reacting to the situation.

I've missed on pulled books in the past. Rick is fameous for it. Posts a great book, and then later you come back to take it and hes pulled it from the thread. No love loss there. We all move on. This was a little different sequence...

[Hudson]

I am not an English or math major, however, in my opinion (for what it is worth - which is likely not a whole lot).,...

 

“I think I’m going to pull it...” 

does not equal

”I am going to pull it.”

 

Situations like this always sadden me.   Money is a cheap commodity (easily earned and easily lost), but a man’s word and thus his reputation are priceless.  
 

 

[agamoto]

15 minutes ago, Hudson said:

I am not an English or math major, however, in my opinion (for what it is worth - which is likely not a whole lot).,...

 

“I think I’m going to pull it...” 

does not equal

”I am going to pull it.”

 

Situations like this always sadden me.   Money is a cheap commodity (easily earned and easily lost), but a man’s word and thus his reputation are priceless.  
 

 

Well, where I come from 'After taking a closer look at it, the hulk actually doesn't look pressed and I think I'm going to pull it and CPR it anyway' means I'm not going to sell it. It doesn't mean I'm holding out for more money, it doesn't mean I want a better offer and it doesn't mean I'm gonna leave it up and change the price. It means I had another look at it. It's better than I thought it was, it doesn't appear pressed and it means I intend to pull it because I think it can get a 9.6 or 9.8. 

Also, for what it's worth, the first two messages exchanged I didn't see in Miraclemet's post. 

I agree, both miraclemet and I could have definitely used more active language instead of thinking and maybe-ing so much. 

Edited October 23, 2020 by agamoto
added "and I"

[Beige]

1 hour ago, miraclemet said:

 

 

 

 

 

Are you selling some of these on facebook as well?

I'm unsure what 'Girl waffling Comics' means... 

 

When did we allow bitcoin as a form of payment?

 

 

Edited October 23, 2020 by Beige

[Bird]

it seems to me much ado about nothing. Rather than dissect words I would prefer to just trust the person when they say "yes, it was unclear but this is what I meant" but I also read it as the book is being cpr'ed and no longer for sale.

I also understand grumbling and think it hasn't been overdone, we should all be allowed to grumble a little.

I have a list   but this event won't put anyone on it. 

Here come the weekend! 

[Bird]

7 minutes ago, Beige said:

 'Girl waffling Comics'

surprised this one gets around the censor!

[miraclemet]

52 minutes ago, Beige said:

I'm unsure what 'Girl waffling Comics' means... 

Its the facebook term for a raffle, because raffles are not legal.

[thehumantorch]

4 hours ago, agamoto said:

5 hours ago, thehumantorch said:

From your sales thread.

"I guess the rules supreme on these boards. First one to respond with a take it wins, no matter what, I'm fine with that."

You're clearly violating your own rules.  'no matter what' is deliciously ironic.

'Then, to make it very clear to buyers that if they are in any way remotely interested in a book, they should slap a "take" or a "pending take" on it '

Isn't that exactly what happened?  Buyer slapped a  on a book you listed for sale

"I would always allow someone to back out of that take if they decide the price or deal isn't right for them or the condition or other specifics aren't to their liking provided they make that determination within a reasonable period of time and not hold the book up for a day or two when it could have sold to someone else willing to accept my price and conditions"

I don't see how this is relevant to the discussion other than to say you would let a buyer back out of a deal and thus you should be able to back out of a deal.  Sorry, that's not how it works here.

 

The context behind the "No matter what" comment is based upon my previous, and first, experience selling my 9.6 White GSX1 to Bob Storm.

In that situation, I had several people talking to me about trades and working through price offers. I was actually informed by someone in those private messages that according to the "rules", all negotiations in PM cease once someone puts a public "take" on a book, which I didn't even realize had happened until someone let me know.

The "no matter what", includes legitimate negotiations for the purchase or trade of a book, it doesn't include people tire-kicking and asking exploratory questions and not committing to a book. It absolutely doesn't include those same people taking advantage of the fact that I didn't yet have a chance to alter the ad, knowing full well that I intended to pull the book. 

Again, there was no deal negotiation in private with the intended buyer, he was simply asking exploratory questions and I had made my intention known that the book was being pulled at that time. Again, they did not commit to the book until AFTER acknowledging that intent in our PM's, and before I had an opportunity to alter the ad to remove it from sale.  

You've made a series of mistakes.

First, listing a book that could be improved. 
Second, apparently classifying the interested party as a 'tire kicker' when he clearly was serious about buying the book.
Third, resizing images and dealing with negotiations and doing whatever - stuff that could have waited two minutes - instead of pulling the book and avoiding a take and starting down this path.  Hint, I would have pulled the book before anyone could buy the book and before I replied to a PM about potential improvements to the book.
Fourth, failing to honor the sale of this book to an unqualified take in a sales thread of your design on a venue that expects buyers and sellers to follow through with their commitments. 
Fifth, talking about context, Bob Storms, tire kicking, private negotiations, etc and apparently attempting to confuse the issue and wiggle out of this.

I understand that you're relatively new here, and I get that nobody likes to leave money behind, and I might be a little steamy that someone bought a book knowing I was planning to pull it, but this isn't making you look good.

 

 

[Mr Sneeze]

22 hours ago, Beige said:

Does anyone else prefer it when a sales thread is restricted to say, 8 pages or 72 hours of steady listing then closed and another starts if the seller has more?

 

I'd like a think about having a limit imposed, or a definate stop time to a thread and when to get a new one started.

 

An 80 page thread running over 3 months (not aiming at anyone particular, just an example scenario) doesn't persuade me to go through it, then find a book  I wanted is sold 21 pages later.

 

The other thing:

 

List books one at a time with prices - I can tell you now - an opening post with 30 book titles, grades and prices, does not tempt me to scroll through the next 3 pages of pics, go back, check the price, go back again...etc etc  

 

Some threads are now very long and very messy - and costing them sales.  

 

I don't mind a long sales thread as long as the seller keeps an up to date recap with working links to pages that's fairly easy to navigate. Otherwise, I can't be bothered to look through an unorganized cacophony long out of date. I don't think we need a rule but it is certainly in a sellers best interest to make their thread manageable and easy to use otherwise it's as you say, 'costing them sales'.

I'm with you in that I prefer one book or lot per post, with sold prices remaining intact. Again, I don't think it should be a rule but sales will go to sellers who give you clear pictures or scans, clear information and as much information as possible about the condition of the books.

One reason I would be against a rule for the thread length being restricted is that a well run thread serves as a record or what sold and to whom and for how much and there have been many well run long threads.

Maybe we need an example or template (tips on how to run a lengthy sales thread) to point new comers in the right direction, maybe some links to some past sales threads that are well done.

 

 

 

[agamoto]

4 hours ago, thehumantorch said:

You've made a series of mistakes.

First, listing a book that could be improved. 
Second, apparently classifying the interested party as a 'tire kicker' when he clearly was serious about buying the book.
Third, resizing images and dealing with negotiations and doing whatever - stuff that could have waited two minutes - instead of pulling the book and avoiding a take and starting down this path.  Hint, I would have pulled the book before anyone could buy the book and before I replied to a PM about potential improvements to the book.
Fourth, failing to honor the sale of this book to an unqualified take in a sales thread of your design on a venue that expects buyers and sellers to follow through with their commitments. 
Fifth, talking about context, Bob Storms, tire kicking, private negotiations, etc and apparently attempting to confuse the issue and wiggle out of this.

I understand that you're relatively new here, and I get that nobody likes to leave money behind, and I might be a little steamy that someone bought a book knowing I was planning to pull it, but this isn't making you look good.

 

 

I'm getting sick of this already. There WAS NO unqualified take. Telling me he's "thinking about" a bundle and "Interested maybe in some books" is NOT a take. I disagree with your assessment of the situation entirely. Sellers deserve to have some rights here and there too... That includes the right to pull a book should they change their mind on, provided it hasn't been spoken for, which is wasn't. That includes being able to have a reasonable amount of time in the middle of a friggin' work day to update the ad to reflect a change in its status. That includes not having a veteran board member resolving to get serious about buying a book when I just told him it was no longer going to be available and then having him kick up a wasp nest of other veterans to come swing by to "self-police" me and tell me just how shady I'm being.  

I'll have no part of it, I don't give a damn how it makes me look in your eyes. If this is how this place works, I don't need or want to be a part of it.

The sad truth in all of this, is that I'm being punished for being honest. Had I LIED to the guy, told him it was already pressed, or had a cracked case, etc. He likely would have just decided to keep on kicking tires somewhere else and none of this nonsense follow-up might have happened. 

[agamoto]

1 hour ago, Mr Sneeze said:

I don't mind a long sales thread as long as the seller keeps an up to date recap with working links to pages that's fairly easy to navigate. Otherwise, I can't be bothered to look through an unorganized cacophony long out of date. I don't think we need a rule but it is certainly in a sellers best interest to make their thread manageable and easy to use otherwise it's as you say, 'costing them sales'.

What's interesting about this comment is that it's precisely what I tried to do with my thread, to keep things tidy and readable, by shrinking the size of the images to shrink the overall real estate consumed, by adding bold, large, colored text to indicate the book has been sold and to strike through the text so that all of the information about the book was still there to read, but clearly no longer active. 

I've had at least three different people harp on me now about how I wasted time doing that and because it took so long for me to do that, I'm entirely to blame for the heat I'm taking.

It's absolutely unnerving to me to be told what a failure I am when I've worked hard to legitimately contribute with decent pictures, decent formatting, a wealth of book information and links to additional info, and follow-up with a desire to keep the thread clean, short and easy to read by reformatting ads that have closed.

 

[agamoto]

6 hours ago, Beige said:

Are you selling some of these on facebook as well?

I'm unsure what 'Girl waffling Comics' means... 

 

When did we allow bitcoin as a form of payment?

 

 

Technically, I'm not selling anything on facebook, (or anywhere else concurrently with whatever is posted here). I can't stand facebook, but she makes a living selling on commission for plenty of people and she does what she does with them, I don't ask. When it's time to ship the book, she pays me for them and gives me the address she'd like them shipped. I pay Paypal's 2.9% receiving fees, I ship and insure the book, all is good. As for bitcoin, I have no idea if that's accepted here or not, but it sure is a damn cheap way to move money from A to B.   

[thehumantorch]

50 minutes ago, agamoto said:

I'm getting sick of this already. There WAS NO unqualified take. Telling me he's "thinking about" a bundle and "Interested maybe in some books" is NOT a take. I disagree with your assessment of the situation entirely. Sellers deserve to have some rights here and there too... That includes the right to pull a book should they change their mind on, provided it hasn't been spoken for, which is wasn't. That includes being able to have a reasonable amount of time in the middle of a friggin' work day to update the ad to reflect a change in its status. That includes not having a veteran board member resolving to get serious about buying a book when I just told him it was no longer going to be available and then having him kick up a wasp nest of other veterans to come swing by to "self-police" me and tell me just how shady I'm being.  

I'll have no part of it, I don't give a damn how it makes me look in your eyes. If this is how this place works, I don't need or want to be a part of it.

The sad truth in all of this, is that I'm being punished for being honest. Had I LIED to the guy, told him it was already pressed, or had a cracked case, etc. He likely would have just decided to keep on kicking tires somewhere else and none of this nonsense follow-up might have happened. 

A takeit in thread is an unqualified take

[Jeffro.]

On 10/23/2020 at 12:57 AM, Beige said:

Some threads are now very long and very messy - and costing them sales.  

Yeah, but that's ultimately their decision to run their sales thread that way. 

I'm more perturbed by this growing trend of very long sales thread titles where the sellers try to cram every book they're selling into the title. 

Edited October 24, 2020 by Jeffro.

[Dick Pontoon]

I'm with Jeffro. Figureatively, of course.

 

[miraclemet]

14 minutes ago, Pontoon said:

I'm with Jeffro. Figureatively, of course.

 

Agreed. I spend more time decoding a thread title than in the thread!

[Red84]

On 10/21/2020 at 11:25 AM, agamoto said:

No, I would NOT have honored any other "take" after I made the decision to pull it, just as I would not honor a "take" on any book which I had already committed to selling to someone else privately yet hadn't had time to alter the ad to indicate it's closure. 

THIS is the problem. Everyone is not required to be mind readers. If the book is listed and someone posts a Take It then it is theirs. 
The specific situation with Miraclemet is more of a gray area for me given the ambiguous “I think I’m going to pull it” followed by the Take It. But your answer to the hypothetical of a third party taking the book is unacceptable. 

Edited October 24, 2020 by Red84

[faster friends]

I have to wonder how much thought someone is putting into their sales prep if they post a book for sale and then decide they don’t want to sell it.

why list it in the first place?