General discussion thread - keep the other threads clean 29 29

[Red84]

7 minutes ago, newshane said:

Too bad. 

Anyone serious enough to conduct trade in graded slabs should make sure they have access to GPA. 

We don't need rules to govern common sense and responsibility. 

Then I propose that if a seller chooses to list a gpa price that the community be free to respond with additional gpa price quotes within the thread.

If someone cites gpa for a 3.0 most recent sale of $2500 then I should be able to respond in the thread that a 4.0 just sold for $2000.

If someone is going to pick and choose self-serving data then that disingenuous use of gpa should be called out in their sales thread.

[newshane]

2 minutes ago, Red84 said:

We would not allow someone to lie about gpa and say a book sold for an amount that it did not sell for.

My view is that giving out of context gpa quotes is equivalent to flat out lying.

I agree. But it's pretty easy to out these people since GPA data is open to the public as long as they have a subscription, and I don't think we need to add another rule and another reason to have threads pulled. 

People seem to have a very hard time following the rules we've already established. 

People also tend to "bend" census numbers, but all it takes is a quick check on the part of the buyer to see what's going on. 

[newshane]

Just now, Red84 said:

If someone is going to pick and choose self-serving data then that disingenuous use of gpa should be called out in their sales thread.

This is fine with me. 

[Red84]

Just now, newshane said:

I agree. But it's pretty easy to out these people since GPA data is open to the public as long as they have a subscription, and I don't think we need to add another rule and another reason to have threads pulled. 

People seem to have a very hard time following the rules we've already established. 

People also tend to "bend" census numbers, but all it takes is a quick check on the part of the buyer to see what's going on. 

Fair enough.

[newshane]

1 minute ago, Red84 said:

If someone cites gpa for a 3.0 most recent sale of $2500 then I should be able to respond in the thread that a 4.0 just sold for $2000.

 

I think a better choice would be to PM and use the data in negotiations. 

My whole feel is that the buyer should beware and the buyer should be responsible. 

[Red84]

1 minute ago, newshane said:

I think a better choice would be to PM and use the data in negotiations. 

My whole feel is that the buyer should beware and the buyer should be responsible. 

It's the whole snake oil salesmanship that bothers me.

[newshane]

Personally, I don't blindly throw up the before:

1. Checking the census

2. Checking eBay

3. Checking GPA 

I'm not foolish enough to blindly trust my car salesman or anyone else trying to make a dollar. I gather data, conduct research, and arrive at a decision to buy or pass. 

And yes, I sometimes chuckle at the way people build up their "deals" after looking at the numbers. In the end, I just move along. If someone else is foolish enough to take the bait, it's none of my business. 

I don't like predatory sellers either, but I do believe people should act like responsible adults before buying anything. 

[newshane]

2 minutes ago, Red84 said:

It's the whole snake oil salesmanship that bothers me.

To be clear, it bothers me as well. 

But I don't feel the need to nanny everyone down the pike. 

I think we should all focus on enforcing the rules as they stand instead of adding to the plate. Unfortunately, it would just be another rule that most people would ignore. 

...and to be fair, I've seen a lot of sellers who are very honest and direct when it comes to quoting GPA. 

And $10 a month is not a lot to pay for the peace of mind offered by GPA data. 

[KPR Comics]

11 minutes ago, Red84 said:

Then I propose that if a seller chooses to list a gpa price that the community be free to respond with additional gpa price quotes within the thread.

If someone cites gpa for a 3.0 most recent sale of $2500 then I should be able to respond in the thread that a 4.0 just sold for $2000.

If someone is going to pick and choose self-serving data then that disingenuous use of gpa should be called out in their sales thread.

100% agree

[skypinkblu]

1 hour ago, newshane said:

No need for another rule. 

The buyer is free to: 

1. Ignore the numbers

2. Check for themselves

 

While I somewhat agree about not making more rules, I like to think that we watch out for each other here, or at least we used to.  I see way too many people "enhancing" the perceived value of things and some people here do tend to be trusting because they feel it's a collecting site.

Personally I have mispriced a number of books on the lower side, because even though I do research, there just isn't that much information. Sometimes I just paid very little for a copy, so I price it low deliberately, but not always.  No one ever says...WOW you priced that way too low, why don't you raise the price before someone takes it;)  lol. ? 

 

Since comics have gone up so much, a lot of the members here have changed. There is a completely different mentality for those who are merely here to flip and make a profit.  Many may be perfectly nice people, but I miss a lot of the "collector helping collector" stuff. It's just a lot more heartwarming than the "hey you were too dumb to figure out what you had and I'm a genius so I win" stuff.

I suppose that one way to make things better would be to educate people more. Maybe some of us should start threads on "Page Quality Vs Prices", "How GPA is not the end all of pricing on scarce stuff", "Where to look stuff up other than on GPA and eBay" , etc.

Honestly, I knew NONE of that stuff 13 years ago.

 

[Red84]

13 minutes ago, skypinkblu said:

While I somewhat agree about not making more rules, I like to think that we watch out for each other here, or at least we used to.  I see way too many people "enhancing" the perceived value of things and some people here do tend to be trusting because they feel it's a collecting site.

Personally I have mispriced a number of books on the lower side, because even though I do research, there just isn't that much information. Sometimes I just paid very little for a copy, so I price it low deliberately, but not always.  No one ever says...WOW you priced that way too low, why don't you raise the price before someone takes it;)  lol. ? 

 

Since comics have gone up so much, a lot of the members here have changed. There is a completely different mentality for those who are merely here to flip and make a profit.  Many may be perfectly nice people, but I miss a lot of the "collector helping collector" stuff. It's just a lot more heartwarming than the "hey you were too dumb to figure out what you had and I'm a genius so I win" stuff.

I suppose that one way to make things better would be to educate people more. Maybe some of us should start threads on "Page Quality Vs Prices", "How GPA is not the end all of pricing on scarce stuff", "Where to look stuff up other than on GPA and eBay" , etc.

Honestly, I knew NONE of that stuff 13 years ago.

 

It's the sense of community that makes the snake oil salesmanship more dangerous. It gets people to let down their guard and rely on the false or deceptive statements made by some sellers.

That's why I don't like any mention of gpa in sales threads. It creates a false sense of security within the community that the information being provided is accurate.

[miraclemet]

Im one of the people who is quick to PM someone who is mis-using GPA data. 

Stating 12mo and 90 day data isnt misusing it especially in cases with multiple data points even if there's some PQ variables... as the Pickers say "I cant do the buying AND the seling" there is some onus on the buyer to determine if the deal is good and the info is good. 

Jumping on an outlier data point due to a BIN (or as we know occasionally people attempt to manipulate GPA via fraudulent BINs) while ignoring the 90 day and 12mo data is sketchy, and I'll often PM people about it if it looks like a grey area move. 

Also when dealing with few data points it's often better to point out surrounding grade data that might be more recent along with the in-grade data that might be older. 

[NP_Gresham]

6 hours ago, Red84 said:

Then I propose that if a seller chooses to list a gpa price that the community be free to respond with additional gpa price quotes within the thread.

 

There IS a rule against that. We call that thread krapping around here.

I totally agree with your sentiments - GPA is the best service I have ever paid for- but additional rules are not needed. Common sense can not be made into a rule. At some point the protections are there and it is caveat emptor.

 

[Bomber-Bob]

6 hours ago, Red84 said:

My view is that giving out of context gpa quotes is equivalent to flat out lying.

This. The data can be interpreted in many ways and only using selective data to benefit your sale is, IMO, not appropriate. 

[Bomber-Bob]

20 minutes ago, NP_Gresham said:

There IS a rule against that. We call that thread krapping around here.

I totally agree with your sentiments - GPA is the best service I have ever paid for- but additional rules are not needed. Common sense can not be made into a rule. At some point the protections are there and it is caveat emptor.

 

That's why I came here to vent, respecting the threadkrap. AND I did not ask or even hint at a new rule. I came here to say 'I hate it when' . IMO, the seller was not comparing apples to apples. He had a CR/OW book. He should be comparing it to other CR/OW books, not to averages. He said it doesn't matter unless the pages are Brittle. I respectfully disagree.

[Red84]

30 minutes ago, NP_Gresham said:

There IS a rule against that. We call that thread krapping around here.

I totally agree with your sentiments - GPA is the best service I have ever paid for- but additional rules are not needed. Common sense can not be made into a rule. At some point the protections are there and it is caveat emptor.

 

I know there’s a rule against it. That’s why I was proposing that people be permitted to counter the out of context gpa quotes without it qualifying as threadkrapping. 

[skypinkblu]

It would not be "threadkrapping" if someone offered the information here in the discussion thread, but not everyone looks here. 

[crassus]

The issue of "threadkrapping" is a difficult one. Generally I consider it a very necessary rule and one that should be interpreted broadly and strictly. That said, experience shows that the rule can vanish when any whiff of "scam" shows up in a sales thread.  The "outing" of a scammer seems different, except that sometimes the scammer gets outed only gradually based on suspicions which begin as awkward questions posted in a sales thread. 

And some questions are not always awkward, but may be reasonable given the presentation. So with the GPA question, would it be threadkrapping, let's say, to post something like, "Hi, nice book and thanks for the sales info, but I don't have GPA so could you show us the figures you are working with?" Is this different from asking a seller who is posting expensive books with fuzzy pics in a bag to please post better pictures fc and bc outside of a bag? I might think the second example  has a bit more of a negative implication than the first one, but that would depend I guess on the seller. If the latter is not "threadkrapping" than neither can the first, since the logic of both is the same, i.e. the buyer is asking for clarification and further information about the book(s). The seller does not have to provide GPA, but once they do the door is opened up to reasonable inquiries and clarifications about that information. 

 

 

[Ryan.]

I would not consider an inquiry for more information, whether it be contextualized GPA citations or clearer pictures, to be threadkrapping. 

Inciting, inflammatory or sarcastic comments are threadkraps of the first order. 

[Ryan.]

While on the subject, there seems to be a rise in fuzzy, distant and just plain half azzed pictures of books in the sales forums.