General discussion thread - keep the other threads clean
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2 hours ago, bababooey said:

I'm not really in agreement with most here based on reading the PM's, I only skimmed both threads.  

If you're sending a private message offering to purchase saying "if you're willing to sell" & then follow it up with a public "take it" in the thread then your "take it" is functionally agreeing to the list price & preventing others from buying but I think you are still awaiting an answer to the question you asked. 

I read the question you posed via PM as proof of your awareness of his expressed intentions to pull the book from the sales thread, whether he pulls it or not is irrelevant and whether your opinion changed based on reviewing his wording afterwards is kind of meaningless also IMHO. 

I have no problem with your public 'take it' since it serves a purpose and locks you in as first in line for that book at that price & conforms to the sparse thread rules.  However a deal between you and him is bound by the thread rules and the dialogue exchanged between you is relevant to your transaction.  By asking him whether he's willing to sell you've introduced a new dynamic beyond his thread rules and granted him an option that he can decline.

You summed it up correctly, you (without PM's) or anyone else, could have claimed the book. 

I think I'm in your camp too Bababooey. On the rare occasions I comment on matters like this I'm often pulled up by someone for 'not knowing the full facts' or something like that, sometimes correctly. But if there is nothing salient that I'm missing buried in the various thread details, the pm exchange is straightforward to me. The seller quite clearly indicated he was withdrawing the book. If the matter had ended there privately with the "oh well, I should have just bought it" we wouldn't be here now. I find that the airing of dirty laundry often ends in rancour all round and relatively small disagreements end up magnified with otherwise decent people being branded negatively out of all proportion to the actual original event. The seller is clearly intelligent, can put a rational argument forward and squeeze in some Columbo humour with it. I feel sad that he will likely leave the forum now just for saying "Actually, I think I'll hang on to this one" in response to a pressing question - itself sounding out hidden value - before anyone had legitimately claimed it. 

The would be buyers lesson for next time - buy the book, if you think it represents value / could make you a buck

The would be sellers lesson - check your books carefully before listing them to avoid leaving money on the table scenarios 

The lesson for me (probably) - stick to pence threads

See, always end with a joke. I doubt it will ever happen, but wouldn't it be nice just for once if the two boardies made up, drew a line under it and both walked down the mountain that their molehill became. 

 

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11 minutes ago, mattn792 said:

I think there’s a second seller lesson here - proper order of operations would have avoided this altogether.  First, unequivocally pull the book within the thread. Then make notification that you pulled the book.

It's a fair point Matt. He was late to pull the book that he'd indicated by PM to Miraclemet that he was intending to. If someone else had bought it in the thread during that window, and agamoto had refused to sell to them, then that would have been a more telling infringement I think, perhaps worthy of all this debate.  But it's done now. I just agreed with the sentiment Bababooey posted earlier and didn't want to leave him standing  alone in the circle of that opinion.

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This is why the seller should have sold the book.  

"First one to respond with a take it wins, no matter what"

 

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5 minutes ago, comicdonna said:

This is why the seller should have sold the book.  

"First one to respond with a take it wins, no matter what"

 

Not trying to be antagonistic, but maybe we have a scenario here where that rule needs a little finessing? Few things in life are 'no matter what' are they? 

Anyway, I'm off out Donna. A trip to the pub with the wife. 

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4 hours ago, bababooey said:

I'm not really in agreement with most here based on reading the PM's, I only skimmed both threads.  

If you're sending a private message offering to purchase saying "if you're willing to sell" & then follow it up with a public "take it" in the thread then your "take it" is functionally agreeing to the list price & preventing others from buying but I think you are still awaiting an answer to the question you asked. 

I read the question you posed via PM as proof of your awareness of his expressed intentions to pull the book from the sales thread, whether he pulls it or not is irrelevant and whether your opinion changed based on reviewing his wording afterwards is kind of meaningless also IMHO. 

I have no problem with your public 'take it' since it serves a purpose and locks you in as first in line for that book at that price & conforms to the sparse thread rules.  However a deal between you and him is bound by the thread rules and the dialogue exchanged between you is relevant to your transaction.  By asking him whether he's willing to sell you've introduced a new dynamic beyond his thread rules and granted him an option that he can decline.

You summed it up correctly, you (without PM's) or anyone else, could have claimed the book. 

Generally I agree with your commentary, I think what tipped the scales for me, however, was the seller's acknowledgement that even if an unknowing 3rd party had in the interval taken the book in the thread, he would not have honoured that "take it" either, and pulled the book also. It was kind of a logical trap that was created by the seller. If he says to Miraclemet "not you because you were aware in PM I was pulling it" but yes to a public straight up 3rd party take it, then why not just sell it to Miraclemet etc....so the seller was forced out of consistency to say nobody could have had it, and thus nullify the meaning of his own rules. The fact remains that the easiest solution was for the seller to think about what he is selling in the first place (not a big ask) and then remember that "the customer is always right". Of course customers can be wrong, its not a literal truth I know, but its one of those guidelines that helps avoid problems like this. 2c

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two people misunderstood each other, and made choices of action for various valid, or maybe, confusing reasons. it happens. that does not indicate either person was lacking character or good faith.

shake hands, make a deal, and move on. or, shake hands, don't make a deal, and next time the buyer and seller both try to avoid any confusing points of a transaction.

ps: an attorney is not needed, in this situation.

i really don't understand how this became a public issue, but i realize i am a bit more trusting and naïve than the average person, and sometimes miss the the big picture. 

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it seems to me that had another person agreed to buy the book in the interim, and the seller sold it after stating (publicly or privately), that he would not sell it and keep it for the time being, that would not have been honorable.

i think that would be much more worthy of criticism than the present situation.

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I think “no matter what” article seals the deal.

of course there are exceptions, like death or a civil war, but out of the extreme possibilities that would allow for exception, I’m not sure “told the guy I was probably going to pull it because I was leaving money on the table but then didn’t pull it in a timely fashion even though I had time to message the guy” would fall clearly in the list of allowable exceptions to “no matter what”. 
 

 

 

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I think “no matter what” article seals the deal.

of course there are exceptions, like death or a civil war, but out of the extreme possibilities that would allow for exception, I’m not sure “told the guy I was probably going to pull it because I was leaving money on the table but then didn’t pull it in a timely fashion even though I had time to message the guy” would fall clearly in the list of allowable exceptions to “no matter what”. 
 

 

 

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10 hours ago, wilbil said:

it seems to me that had another person agreed to buy the book in the interim, and the seller sold it after stating (publicly or privately), that he would not sell it and keep it for the time being, that would not have been honorable.

i think that would be much more worthy of criticism than the present situation.

And the seller stated that if a third party had indeed posted the "Take" that he would NOT have honored the sale. It was that response that revealed a lot.

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12 hours ago, mattn792 said:

This.  And the unending stream of antagonistic dissertations isn't helping either.

I've said all along this issue was really a misunderstanding that could have been resolved civilly.

The real issue was what ensued afterward.  It didn't need to get drawn out like this. 

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On 10/25/2020 at 4:08 PM, unmovedmover said:

Quick question amongst all this drama...

It's been like a decade since I sold anything on these boards, but I want to sell a few CGC'd books in the near soonish timeframe.  Is there anything I can do aside from obvious things to make people comfortable buying from a 'newer' seller?

And because it's not always clear, I consider following rules, shipping well, and not being a jerk the 'obvious' things:-)  

I was in a similar situation recently. I've always been more of a buyer and had never sold much on the boards.  I wanted to get a bigger book and needed cash, so I tried a sales thread. 

Honestly, I had no problems selling the books. I feel like telling my story (why I'm selling) and giving people my ebay name and kudos thread helped. 

If I had one issue, nailing down shipping charges was hard. I put out a flat rate and feel like I over charged some people and undercharged others. I'll probably just do free shipping on my next sales thread or make it cheap. 

PM if you want to see my sales thread for context. 

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13 hours ago, KCOComics said:

I've said all along this issue was really a misunderstanding that could have been resolved civilly.

The real issue was what ensued afterward.  It didn't need to get drawn out like this. 

agreed. the original problem (as I've said all along) fell into a grey area for sure and I think the seller was civil in our discourse. 

The drawing out of the issue lay in a) the seller's expansion on the issue as questions were asked after the fact (ie the idea that any "take it" in his thread would not have been honored if he had decided to pull a book, regardless of whether the book had actually been pulled yet) and b) the seller's need to respond to so many comments/questions/opinions, and often with a confrontational tone. He was his own worst enemy in this regard. 

The seller also, in an effort of damage control, could have closed his sales thread, since it too had many pages of posts that added gasoline to the flame, but he has the right to keep his sales thread open, just like I had the right to come here and grumble in the first place (though, based on his posts, the seller doesn't agree)

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Not sure if it's the right place to ask. Does anyone else feel that comic prices are down this week? I won a modern book for around 30% below GoCollect FMV. 

Something like this happened to me back in late February too. There was a lot of uncertainty regarding COVID, and the auctions were going significantly below FMV. 

I would like to hear from people who participated in any eBay auctions this last week.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, allthingskryptonite said:

Not sure if it's the right place to ask. Does anyone else feel that comic prices are down this week? I won a modern book for around 30% below GoCollect FMV. 

Something like this happened to me back in late February too. There was a lot of uncertainty regarding COVID, and the auctions were going significantly below FMV. 

I would like to hear from people who participated in any eBay auctions this last week.

I could say why this is probably happening, but it has to do with the likelihood (or actually lack there of) of additional COVID relief between now and January 3, and I don't want to violate the "no politics" rule for the boards. 

Edited by miraclemet

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On 10/26/2020 at 6:46 AM, comicdonna said:

This is why the seller should have sold the book.  

"First one to respond with a take it wins, no matter what"

 

If he stuck around 'no matter what' would be a great custom title

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I have some Absolute Editions, as well as a handful of other trades and hardcovers, that I want to list for sale.

The content is all Copper or Modern. I can list these in the Copper/Modern forum yeah?

Or are trades and the like automatically supposed to go in the Mixed section?

 

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