With all of the exclusive creator/talent signing deals... 4 4

[Transplant]

1 hour ago, reddwarf666222 said:

I think this is creator driven. With the big names like a Neal Adams or a Rob Liefeld telling the younger generations you only have a limited time that you can be popular for in which you can charge for high demands. As a creator you need to charge what you can make when you can make it and save up for the rest of your life. I've been told this by alot of creators that these guys and now a larger growing group of creators are trying to make artists understand this and not give away stuff for free. They are also trying to educate not everyone can have the longevity of being considered a legend and be on top.

BS. McFarlane and Stan, this may have been true. 90+% of the rest are because someone approached them and made an argument consisting of cash and a promise to get rid of people hogging fan space to flip books. There was a time when CGC didn't allow exclusives. 

[reddwarf666222]

40 minutes ago, Transplant said:

BS. McFarlane and Stan, this may have been true. 90+% of the rest are because someone approached them and made an argument consisting of cash and a promise to get rid of people hogging fan space to flip books. There was a time when CGC didn't allow exclusives. 

Well all I can say is go to panels and listen to talent talk when asked these questions they point to the legends telling them and educating them

[BeachBum]

6 hours ago, Transplant said:

BS. McFarlane and Stan, this may have been true. 90+% of the rest are because someone approached them and made an argument consisting of cash and a promise to get rid of people hogging fan space to flip books. There was a time when CGC didn't allow exclusives. 

You hit it on the nail Mike. Kevlar (Torrey) and I saw this starting to happen a couple of years ago and both warned CGC what was going on as did many others Facilitators & Dealers. I even remember Torrey and I sitting and having a dinner with Humberto Ramos and his handler Joseph back in London back in early 2015 where we all discussed the issue. It basically comes down to this - If you're an artist and you organically decide to charge for your signature that's on you - if the market decides you're worth it then people will continue to get your sig and pay for it whether it be a per book fee or just a fee for sig series, but if you're approached by a Facilitator saying "hey you should be getting paid for your sig and I'm the guy to get that done for you" that's a whole different mess. And if you think there's not already a creator/customer backlash brewing you'd be mistaken - I get messages all the time - I got this text overnight from a board member here who gets a lot of SS done (names redacted) -

"I was interested in "Celebrity X" I didn't even bother reaching out to "Facilitator B", I said F it. Between the sour taste in my mouth from "Facilitator A", the 3000 variants and the $ I'm spending I might be done. It's too much. "Artist A", "Artist B", "Artist C", all charge now, when will it end?"

Edited March 26, 2017 by BeachBum

[reddwarf666222]

22 minutes ago, BeachBum said:

You hit it on the nail Mike. Kevlar (Torrey) and I saw this starting to happen a couple of years ago and both warned CGC what was going on as did many others Facilitators & Dealers. I even remember Torrey and I sitting and having a dinner with Humberto Ramos and his handler Joseph back in London back in early 2015 where we all discussed the issue. It basically comes down to this - If you're an artist and you organically decide to charge for your signature that's on you - if the market decides you're worth it then people will continue to get your sig and pay for it whether it be a per book fee or just a fee for sig series, but if you're approached by a Facilitator saying "hey you should be getting paid for your sig and I'm the guy to get that done for you" that's a whole different mess. And if you think there's not already a creator/customer backlash brewing you'd be mistaken - I get messages all the time - I got this text overnight from a board member here who gets a lot of SS done (names redacted) -

"I was interested in "Celebrity X" I didn't even bother reaching out to "Facilitator B", I said F it. Between the sour taste in my mouth from "Facilitator A", the 3000 variants and the $ I'm spending I might be done. It's too much. "Artist A", "Artist B", "Artist C", all charge now, when will it end?"

Like it or not that is the current market place. If you don't like it then don't buy and support it, but to come on these boards and complain about something you can't control other than boycott it seems childish. Things happen and stuff changes outside of your control and to complain and let it stew is not healthy. Right now facilitators, creators, and companies are making more money while they can and more power to them if they get an exclusivity. The truth is the current Comic Con style market has about 4 years left to live and it is going to have a hard crash. Sure the big 5 may live in a smaller fashion, but the rest will close shop. I think that is evident about how much more active the Signature Room used to be and the activity is not even a tenth of what it was in 2012. The writing is on the wall and they need to make all the money while they still can.

[BeachBum]

14 minutes ago, reddwarf666222 said:

Like it or not that is the current market place. If you don't like it then don't buy and support it, but to come on these boards and complain about something you can't control other than boycott it seems childish. Things happen and stuff changes outside of your control and to complain and let it stew is not healthy. Right now facilitators, creators, and companies are making more money while they can and more power to them if they get an exclusivity. The truth is the current Comic Con style market has about 4 years left to live and it is going to have a hard crash. Sure the big 5 may live in a smaller fashion, but the rest will close shop. I think that is evident about how much more active the Signature Room used to be and the activity is not even a tenth of what it was in 2012. The writing is on the wall and they need to make all the money while they still can.

So by your thinking people should money grab while they can even if it means killing the business, their means of making a living, with their own behavior?

 

Edited March 26, 2017 by BeachBum

[DomRand]

 Beachbum a troll.

 

[BeachBum]

1 minute ago, DomRand said:

 Beachbum a troll.

 

 I'm under my bridge eating Cheerios right now.

[DomRand]

for the troll

[reddwarf666222]

9 minutes ago, BeachBum said:

So by your thinking people should money grab while they can even if it means killing the business, their means of making a living, with their own behavior?

 

Yep, because they are not ruining/killing the business for everyone. They have just tarnished your experience. They have 3 to 4 years left as they know it and it is over.

[BeachBum]

35 minutes ago, reddwarf666222 said:

Yep, because they are not ruining/killing the business for everyone. They have just tarnished your experience. They have 3 to 4 years left as they know it and it is over.

Right here is the problem everyone - reddwarf666222 has hit on the nail - Do what you want, while you can, by whatever means necessary, break the rules, step over others, openly lie, talk badly about other facilitators/dealers and even your own customers, even if it kills the signature series program. Cool books for everyone.... for now.

Edited March 26, 2017 by BeachBum

[DomRand]

9 minutes ago, reddwarf666222 said:

Yep, because they are not ruining/killing the business for everyone. They have just tarnished your experience. They have 3 to 4 years left as they know it and it is over.

They are, they will be found out and kicked out as a SS facilitator, and all the books they have done will be tarnished. Its about keeping high standards and not always about the money, the money is a 2nd issue in the scheme of things. 

You get greedy your standards drop and then no more SS facilitating then no more making any money.

[reddwarf666222]

3 minutes ago, DomRand said:

They are, they will be found out and kicked out as a SS facilitator, and all the books they have done will be tarnished. Its about keeping high standards and not always about the money, the money is a 2nd issue in the scheme of things. 

You get greedy your standards drop and then no more SS facilitating then no more making any money.

You can still keep high standards and set up what you need to with talent and convention heads to make a living. 

 

[DomRand]

13 hours ago, reddwarf666222 said:

I'm just saying if I go to such and such show and a facilitator is there. The witness is not always attached to their hip. The facilitator may come over and watch the book get signed or they may send a witness to watch the book get signed. The facilitator may be getting books signed by such and such talent while the witness is getting other books signed by such and such talent.

I dont think you know what your talking about.

Facilitator in charge of the books and directs the witness. The witness goes and get the books witnessed, and brings back to facilitator.

Its not hard, but when more money gets involved standards slip and people become greedy, that 1 "oh go moment" turns into 2 which increases especially when you get away with it time and time again.

Edited March 26, 2017 by DomRand

[Rich_Henn]

11 hours ago, starlord86 said:

I hear that guy starlord86 is really cool. Someone should get that guy a drink.

I did....and look at all that water you're drinking, you light weight!  ;-)

 

[reddwarf666222]

25 minutes ago, DomRand said:

I dont think you know what your talking about.

Facilitator in charge of the books and directs the witness. The witness goes and get the books witnessed, and brings back to facilitator.

Its not hard, but when more money gets involved standards slip and people become greedy, that 1 "oh go moment" turns into 2 which increases especially when you get away with it time and time again.

Point is this is in response to Bum's saying both the facilitator and witness must watch the book get signed together. That is not the case.

[BeachBum]

26 minutes ago, reddwarf666222 said:

Point is this is in response to Bum's saying both the facilitator and witness must watch the book get signed together. That is not the case.

There are some Facilitators that feel that there should be two sets of eyes on the books - This is Kevlar's feeling as brought up to me - that the Facilitator should be present when the witness is present. When I go to a show as a CGC Dealer I have to go get a witness from the CGC booth. I then take the witness with me to the artist and he/she watches it being signed. If the Facilitator is acting as the agent of the customer who sent the books in than the Facilitator should be handling the book and the witness should be watching the signature. There are many a Facilitator who conduct their business this way. The witness is being to paid watch signatures being done on behalf of CGC.

You were talking earlier about Facilitator's acting as witnesses on books which is a no-no. Big No-No. Mucho Grande No-No. Big-Bada-Boom-Big No-No.

 

Edited March 26, 2017 by BeachBum

[reddwarf666222]

24 minutes ago, BeachBum said:

There are some Facilitators that feel that there should be two sets of eyes on the books - This is Kevlar's feeling as brought up to me - that the Facilitator should be present when the witness is present. When I go to a show as a CGC Dealer I have to go get a witness from the CGC booth. I then take the witness with me to the artist and he/she watches it being signed. If the Facilitator is acting as the agent of the customer who sent the books in than the Facilitator should be handling the book and the witness should be watching the signature. There are many a Facilitator who conduct their business this way. The witness is being to paid watch signatures being done on behalf of CGC.

You were talking earlier about Facilitator's acting as witnesses on books which is a no-no. Big No-No. Mucho Grande No-No. Big-Bada-Boom-Big No-No.

 

Off of your saying it is mandatory both facilitator and witness watch the book getting signed. I have seen many witnesses get the bookm signed themselves without the facilitator there

Edited March 26, 2017 by reddwarf666222

[BeachBum]

10 minutes ago, reddwarf666222 said:

Off of your saying it is mandatory both facilitator and witness watch the book getting signed. I have seen many witnesses get the bookm signed themselves without the facilitator there

And you've seen many a Facilitator getting books signed without a witness there as well apparently...

Go back to my original comments - It's my understanding that the Facilitator is there to handle and make sure the books are done and the witnesses are there to witness signatures on behalf of CGC - that's why the whole Facilitator/CAW relationship was created. All the great Facilitators I know handle business this way - they walk the show floor with their witness. Now if you're there for your stable of artists and hanging out behind a booth all day and not focused on getting your books done then you're a bad facilitator. My original comment - 

"The Facilitators should not be sitting behind a booth all weekend taking in money for an artist or handling an artist interests but handling CGC books and making sure the books get done properly and not damaged/downgraded."

This is my opinion.

Edited March 26, 2017 by BeachBum

[BeachBum]

I'll put this out there then - I think if customers are sending books out to Facilitators to get sigs done than the Customers should know who the witness is who is handling the books. If the Facilitators are sitting behind a booth the whole time the customer should know who the person is responsible for handling their books during the signing. I would hope these Facilitators are getting responsible people to handle these expensive books and prized possessions.

Edited March 26, 2017 by BeachBum

[MedicAR]

15 hours ago, BeachBum said:

Again, who is the Facilitator(s) doing this?

Yes, this actually really important to me.