Suspense Comics #3 Church copy just showed up 2 2

[lou_fine]

8 hours ago, Robot Man said:

+1  Does a CGC .2 even matter on those? How many of us can really tell a .2 difference at that level? Have we gotton to the stage where a company or companies can milk us out out mountains of cash on a .2. The number on the plastic case and the bucks it will bring seem to be the most important point. Heck it's just a funny book and these are just about the coolest funny books out there. I'd be over the moon to own ANY copy!

Yes and no, as it really depends on the book you are talking about. 

Yes, if you are talking about the difference between a 9.0 graded copy of Hulk 181 versus a 9.2 graded copy of Hulk 181.  Especially since there are already 657 copies of the book graded at 9.0 versus 518 copies graded at 9.2, with a further 744 copies graded at 9.4 and above.  So, with almost 2,000 copies of HG Hulk 181's out there, the only difference between them is really the grade, so you would pay according to the grade.  This same concept would also apply to a book like AF 15 where you have 9 copies graded at 9.0 with only 3 copies graded in 9.2 condition, along with a further 4 copies each at 9.4 and 9.6.  So yes, a 9.2 graded copy of AF 15 should definitely sell for more than a 9.0 graded copy of the same book, if both were graded consistently and accurately.

Now, if you are talking about a book like Fantastic 3 where you have the Church copy graded out in 9.4 condition, and the next nearest copy coming in at a grade of only 6.0, the answer would be NO.  I believe the Church copy would sell for pretty much the same money whether it was graded as a 9.2 copy or as a 9.4 copy, since it is the only HG or even near HG copy in existence.  This same concept would also apply to Mystery Men 30 where you have the Church copy graded as a 9.4 copy, and the only other graded copy in existence is a lowly 4.5.  Once again, I believe the Church copy in this case would go pretty much the same whether it was graded as a 9.2 copy or as a 9.4 copy.  With respect to these kinds of books that are extremely rare or hard to find in grade, you are not so much paying for the tiny increases in grade, as opposed to paying if it is even in existence and if so, are they even available. 

 

 

[lou_fine]

21 hours ago, tth2 said:

On 3/22/2017 at 10:13 AM, lou_fine said:

3)  Seeing and geeking through tth2's uber HG DC collection.

 

I've always joked that it was ironic that the only people who ever saw my collection at its peak in person--you and Gene/Delekkerste--had zero interest in SA DCs.  

Well, if you had brought out your CGC 9.9 graded copy of G.I. Joe 21 when Gene was over at your place, I am quite sure that he would have been absolutely beside himself. 

In order to provide you with some much needed comic book bromance, I will be sure to send Greggy over to your place the next time he is in Hong Kong. 

[N e r V]

9 hours ago, tth2 said:

No one's criticizing you for saying what you said, only indicating that perhaps you're being a bit naïve, perhaps intentionally. 

My point was that this issue was fiercely debated 10-15 years ago when CGC was new and prices were being shattered for slabbed books, but the evidence is now indisputable that collectors have and will pay huge amounts for a small difference in numbers in a label, and the trend ain't stopping anytime soon. 

The difference in value between each CGC increment for an Action 1 is more than the individual value of 99% of the comics in existence.    

Comic collectors had already been heading in that direction with Overstreet and others in constant debate/policy changes  since the 1970's on what the spread times of the 3 basic conditions (good, fine, mint) would be. The differences in price with high grade books was already in earnest before CGC hit but they added a new wrinkle with slabs and numbers attached.

I remember CGC at the SDCC at the beginning attempting to sign up dealers/collectors. I also was aware as a coin collector what those slabs with numbers were going to mean to the hobby. You almost need a microscope to see the difference in some grades of coins to see the difference.

Unless I can visually see the difference "clearly" or someone can show me something I'm not seeing to warrant the difference in numbers I tend to look the other way at time with some numbers.

I'm aware of to many books that have been resubmitted and given different grading numbers over the years that gives me a cause to pause before leaping.

Grading still remains an art not a science which is why it can continue to be subjective at times.

[Robot Man]

1 hour ago, N e r V said:

Comic collectors had already been heading in that direction with Overstreet and others in constant debate/policy changes  since the 1970's on what the spread times of the 3 basic conditions (good, fine, mint) would be. The differences in price with high grade books was already in earnest before CGC hit but they added a new wrinkle with slabs and numbers attached.

I remember CGC at the SDCC at the beginning attempting to sign up dealers/collectors. I also was aware as a coin collector what those slabs with numbers were going to mean to the hobby. You almost need a microscope to see the difference in some grades of coins to see the difference.

Unless I can visually see the difference "clearly" or someone can show me something I'm not seeing to warrant the difference in numbers I tend to look the other way at time with some numbers.

I'm aware of to many books that have been resubmitted and given different grading numbers over the years that gives me a cause to pause before leaping.

Grading still remains an art not a science which is why it can continue to be subjective at times.

No I'm not naive or clueless. This was partially meant to "shake the tree" a bit. Yes, I am a long time collector who loves the medium first and foremost. I love high grade books as much as everybody else. I have quite a number of them. I guess my focus is on the books themselves rather than the extreme minutia of a .2 difference in grade. For me, my sweet spot is probably 7.0-9.0. Real nice copies that I can handle and appreciate with money left over for a few more.

I am not, nor have ever been a "CGC Hater" I have always welcomed having a third party grade as well as even more important a resto check. At the end of the day to many it is a "product" with a dollar value attached. I don't personally like the look of a book in a slab nor do I like the fact all I can see is the front and back. I have cracked most of my books out and put them in mylar. They look better and I can actually page through them. 

I do realize that a slight .2 number in the upper left corner can mean thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars in price depending on the book. Thus the need for impartial 3rd party grading. The market has changed drastically from when I started for the better. 

Are there people that can grade at .2 levels, yes indeed. I have spoken to many long time dealers though and they shared my sentiment about this. They rely on the big number in the upper left corner though. We have also discussed here how grading gets loose and tight in certian times. Like Lou says it is an art and not a science.

My point still stands though that I personally can't understand why people would pay incredible amounts of money more for a .2 bump. Ego? Bragging Rights? Insecurity?, Finiancal gain probably? To each his own and I ain't judging anyone. We all are in this hobby for different reasons. 

Back to the Suspense #3. I could so easily live with the 9.0 Crippen copy for the price difference the 9.2 Church copy will bring. Is there a difference? probably so but I am so dazzled by the book its self than finding miniscule faults between the two would be way down on my list. Not to mention, I could probably have a few more killer books with that cost difference. 

To each his own though just my humble opinion. 

[MrBedrock]

11 minutes ago, Robot Man said:

No I'm not naive or clueless.

I beg to differ...

[N e r V]

I follow the advice I've been given numerous times now on the boards.

Buy the book not the number. If I was thinking about resale value the numbers obviously need to be considered at a higher level though. 

[N e r V]

17 minutes ago, MrBedrock said:

I beg to differ...

[Robot Man]

9 minutes ago, N e r V said:

I follow the advice I've been given numerous times now on the boards.

Buy the book not the number. If I was thinking about resale value the numbers obviously need to be considered at a higher level though. 

Good advice. And a smart buyer should always weigh the grade carefully when buying a high dollar book. 

[Sqeggs]

18 hours ago, Robot Man said:

I figured I'd open myself up with that post. But when have I ever not spoken my mind here even if it isn't popular. Like they say, "A fool and his money"...

are more than welcome in the upcoming ComicConnect auction! 

[lou_fine]

On 3/24/2017 at 9:06 AM, N e r V said:

I'm aware of to many books that have been resubmitted and given different grading numbers over the years that gives me a cause to pause before leaping.

Grading still remains an art not a science which is why it can continue to be subjective at times.

I still remember the big discussion about the significant changes in grades for this resub which took place in the BA Forum:

https://www.cgccomics.com/boards/topic/388228-x-men-100-92-and-x-men-101-80-came-back-ss-80-and-ss-70/

I am just so glad that it tends to be a lot more about the actual book itself as opposed to minuscule differences in grade when it comes to the GA books. 

Edited March 26, 2017 by lou_fine

[lou_fine]

On 3/22/2017 at 10:44 AM, *paull* said:

On 3/18/2017 at 5:05 AM, drbanner said:

Would love to see pics of the full Church Suspense run! Just about every copy of Suspense Comics 1 - 12 above 9.0 is the Church or Crippen copy. The 4 is the toughest one to find, but 8 is my fave. 

 

 

I'd love to see the Church Suspense 8, too.  Very tough book in high grade.  Is that your copy above?  Nice book! 

+1

What a nice looking copy that Banner has there!!! 

With its all-dark cover image, I can just imagine what the Church copy will look like whenever its surfaces in the marketplace, hopefully sooner rather than later. 

Edited March 26, 2017 by lou_fine

[sagii]

As I type this this morning already 65,000.00. 

Tip of the iceberg.....

[comicjack]

Just the tip 

[Et-Es-Go]

Here are a couple things this thread may find interesting.  

A reasonably nice copy of Suspense #4 and the cover proof.  I have not posted these in a long time.  I bought these both back in 1995.

 

 

[Et-Es-Go]

Here is one more thing that I personally found interesting.  A fellow collector let me know about this many years ago, and I have been looking for it to surface at some point, but it still is out there (well I hope it is).  This was an alternative cover for Suspense Comics #4, you cannot make it out in this rendering but it has JUNE in the same location as the copy in the previous post.  I don't think you can read the text in the word balloon, but what it says is "A city threatened by an iron monster!  Steel tentacles that would crush out the lives of humans, this was only one of the problems the Grey Mask had to face!  This is an L.B. Cole cover by the way.  This was done earlier in character development for the Suspense and Terrific comics series.  Again, hard to make out I think but a man with a trench coat and wearing a fedora is standing between the two tall buildings where the narrative word balloon is shown.  Much like the out of proportion guys on the cover of the Suspense #4.  This character became Mr. Nobody and was a recurring element on the covers of #5, #6, #7, #8, #10, and #12.  He also appeared in house adds and a few other filler pieces on the interiors of many of the issues.  So there ya go, some worthless comic knowledge on an obscure title best known for its covers.  That Octopus cover proof sold in a Wooley's auction back in 1983.  I tried tracking down the owner through Wooley but as luck would have it all the auction records were destroyed so he no longer had the reference of whom bought it.......  for $25.  

One thing I would really like to know about the Mile High Suspense #3 is if this book has the centerfold story that is found missing from other books.  My theory has always been that some books went to the news stands with the story and without the story.  This was due to the unusual practice of gluing a single page into a folio.  Those books had 12 folios (48 pages), and then 4 additional "tipped" in pages glued to the interior or exterior of a folio adding 8 more pages, thus 56 page books.  32 pages before the centerfold and 24 pages after the centerfold.   This practice was discontinued shortly after after Suspense #3 was printed as the next book in the Suspense/Terrific series was Terrific #3 printed in May 1944 and had a 48 page count.  Suspense #1, #2, #3; and Terrific #1, and #2 are all 56 page books constructed this way.  The Captain Aero and Catman titles around this same period in 1944 are done the same way.  More weird stuff to share on these two titles.  

Edited April 27, 2017 by p_barnhart

[drbanner]

7 hours ago, p_barnhart said:

Here are a couple things this thread may find interesting.  

A reasonably nice copy of Suspense #4 and the cover proof.  I have not posted these in a long time.  I bought these both back in 1995.

 

 

Thanks for sharing, those are awesome! I seem to recall that when the proof was discovered, there was an article in the CBM (or maybe CBG?) stating it "settled" the issue of who the artist was since I can't recall seeing a copy with Cole's signature showing (although it's pretty obvious who the artist was). While not as high grade as yours, I did see a mid-grade Suspense 4 coming up for sale in the May ComicLink Featured auction.

Edited April 27, 2017 by drbanner

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

On 21/03/2017 at 11:19 PM, david99 said:

 No one here gets out alive.

Do you often quote the Bard, Mr Mojo Risin'?

[comicjack]

They will get out but the pockets will be much much lighter 

[sagii]

..Already about to knock on the door of the PA copy. The finish line whereabouts......300,000? 

[tth2]

no