• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

Marvel UK Price Variants
16 16

2,571 posts in this topic

Now, those in the know of the know all knowing knowledge know that we are stuck on 3,017 confirmed pence copies. If that number is to rise, it will likely come from one of the early, hard to find books like Patsy & Hedy or the aforementioned Battle. Right?

Wrong.

How about from December 1981?

Yes, that's right. The last month pence copies were made.

Impossible!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Get Marwood & I said:

Now, those in the know of the know all knowing knowledge know that we are stuck on 3,017 confirmed pence copies. If that number is to rise, it will likely come from one of the early, hard to find books like Patsy & Hedy or the aforementioned Battle. Right?

Wrong.

How about from December 1981?

Yes, that's right. The last month pence copies were made.

Impossible!

Not!

I have no words.

Except 'Three' 'Thousand' and 'Eighteen' that is.

3018.PNG.430c2a1f417e86a1326e35815f2fb6cc.PNG

 

104.thumb.jpg.56e2d1967b71c408b3d4dea8ce380fa7.jpg

:headbang:

 

Spoiler

Hulk likes Pence Man. Pence Man collects Hulk books with pences on them. Shows them in Pence Thread. But if Pence Man should overlook a key Hulk book, and not add it to his supposedly full proof list of pence publications, then Hulk will SMASH! 59de6884a605b_imageproxy(2).gif.9f10b73b0d95ceeb7cdf55028987cdc4.gif.e07be1f869edd183d32054e112346a41.gif

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Now, those in the know of the know all knowing knowledge know that we are stuck on 3,017 confirmed pence copies. If that number is to rise, it will likely come from one of the early, hard to find books like Patsy & Hedy or the aforementioned Battle. Right?

Wrong.

How about from December 1981?

Yes, that's right. The last month pence copies were made.

Impossible!

Surely not!?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Gnasher said:

Tsk!

I know. 

See ya tomorrow if you're about Gnash. Updates on Dell, Miller, AUS, Charlton are a comin.

At least I think you're Gnash? Keep changing your flippin avatar. You'll never see me do that....

Cheeoww :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Morning :)

It's easy to see why the Marvel Super Heroes #104 escaped detection for all these years. One of the oddities of the pence production process was the 'inexplicable random issue title', i.e. the title for which only a handful of pence issues were produced often months apart with no pattern or logic to them (see Battlestar Galactica post earlier in the thread).

So MSH was two issues, for many years, but is now 3:

msh3.PNG.7bfda6fde5593c27964868aa1253b646.PNG

During my research I spent thousands of man hours scouring these titles. So the 104 discovery was a real, genuine surprise to me. Especially when ebay searches always bring up 72 and 80 time and time again in the UK. 

Take Man-Thing v2 for example - only two pence issues exist - 1 and 6. Here is my current record:

manthing14.PNG.34ccc492abe914e704de6f1e7e0fad09.PNG

Countless searches, over many years went in to deciding upon that position. A quick look on ebay and this listing supports the position:

814261554_oneandsix.thumb.PNG.bb49691f42ed24fb876b8dae537f673c.PNG

 

So one and six (hmmm hm) is it I believe. But if MSH 104 can appear from nowhere, could there be others?

We shall see morlar.png.bb76695f73c28dfd4002e11c2328b02e.png

1.thumb.jpg.97d6fa7ab8b560c585f5061969256394.jpg 6.thumb.jpg.e7898d8b8aba4b8583044d26a40c9ede.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/16/2018 at 9:07 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

On we go.

In my post here from page five I show the three differences between the pence copies of ASM #1 and it's centless cousin:

Those differences again (Mr Plow):

  1. Price (duh!)
  2. Missing month in the issue box
  3. Thorpe & Porter indicia

I saw some speculation in a thread elsewhere once about trying pass off a pence copy as a cents, by removing the cover price. I joined in, mentioned the other two differences, and was ignored. No change there.

Sure enough, someone has had a go at it - look at this ebay listing here:

1641410880_Hiddenpencecopy2.thumb.PNG.208cd8242bc4d61be113eb1d398c8740.PNG

 

Hmmm. The copy conveniently has its price and date box removed hm

A closer look:

But look - they haven't torn off the bottom so, if it is a pence copy, the indicia will give the game away with a Thorpe & Porter logo.

If you think about it, assuming it's a pence copy:

  1. CGC missed it. Don't they read my threads? (:
  2. The buyer will pay 'cents' prices
  3. Mycomicshop are selling it (in good faith)

Not very satisfactory is it?

I wish someone would buy it and crack it open. Of course, it may just be a brutalised cents copy. But can you think of another reason to cut away the date and price? There are unscrupulous people out there.... possibly called Brian :wink:

I sent a copy of this to Brittany and MCS by PM and Brittany has replied, saying that she'll forward the example to the grading team. Hopefully they'll use the info to spot any future attempts to pass off pence as cents, if indeed this is what has been attempted here :wishluck:

Been doing some indicia research today. Just waiting on one book in the post and then I'll post it all here; details of the different pence variant indicia types with examples and dates. As ever, it threw up some unexpected quirks. Watch this space pence people...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Meanwhile, and this is nothing new, just worth repeating, Amazing Fantasy 15 has a potentially unique indicia scenario.

There are two first printing copies - the pence and cents copies like so:

af15ci.thumb.jpg.eeb401a275612b3a7ba82f57118d5476.jpg af15pi.thumb.jpg.6e1a17d445d2a046521d373aa4e97e81.jpg

The pence copy has an additional line of indicia data - 'SOLE DISTRIBUTORS IN THE UNITED KINGDOM - THORPE & PORTER LTD' - just below the usual cents details.

In keeping with the practice at the time (to eliminate the confusion caused by long shipping times), the pence copy has the cover month removed like so:

af15p.PNG.4eeaa0c90a27a7301ff61ccbcef46160.PNG

And the US copy has the month of August:

af15c.PNG.cec3b65e502f06ccaa6480367e34fe25.PNG

But in what may be the only example of it's kind, both pence and cents indicias list the month as September 1962, not August:

530533653_af15cicrop.jpg.f5ac9a951c6ad9263f8c13a8504c255f.jpg

1538414813_af15picrop.jpg.37a97528488cb84c5b0ef20789fbb074.jpg

Hope you can make them out.

The GCD has this to say on the matter:

1285406573_af15augsep.2.thumb.PNG.c7af0632dfa1270b8952b0e9acf54a33.PNG

They say September is the correct date. 

So that's what I put in my spreadsheet. Thing is, when you look at the title - which was formerly Amazing Adult Fantasy (which itself was formerly Amazing Adventures) you can see August is missed as a sequential month:

334168270_af15augsep.thumb.PNG.3ba0b8a6334592e8826e3e36e14e0c14.PNG

 

Issues 3 to 14 are all sequential. It would make so much more sense for AF15 to be August wouldn't it....:wink:

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/17/2018 at 11:33 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

Morning :)

It's easy to see why the Marvel Super Heroes #104 escaped detection for all these years. One of the oddities of the pence production process was the 'inexplicable random issue title', i.e. the title for which only a handful of pence issues were produced often months apart with no pattern or logic to them (see Battlestar Galactica post earlier in the thread).

So MSH was two issues, for many years, but is now 3:

msh3.PNG.7bfda6fde5593c27964868aa1253b646.PNG

During my research I spent thousands of man hours scouring these titles. So the 104 discovery was a real, genuine surprise to me. Especially when ebay searches always bring up 72 and 80 time and time again in the UK. 

Take Man-Thing v2 for example - only two pence issues exist - 1 and 6. Here is my current record:

manthing14.PNG.34ccc492abe914e704de6f1e7e0fad09.PNG

Countless searches, over many years went in to deciding upon that position. A quick look on ebay and this listing supports the position:

814261554_oneandsix.thumb.PNG.bb49691f42ed24fb876b8dae537f673c.PNG

 

So one and six (hmmm hm) is it I believe. But if MSH 104 can appear from nowhere, could there be others?

We shall see morlar.png.bb76695f73c28dfd4002e11c2328b02e.png

1.thumb.jpg.97d6fa7ab8b560c585f5061969256394.jpg 6.thumb.jpg.e7898d8b8aba4b8583044d26a40c9ede.jpg

Howard the Duck was the one that annoyed me for this, all available in pence copies save for 30 & 31.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Gnasher said:

Howard the Duck was the one that annoyed me for this, all available in pence copies save for 30 & 31.

1-26 only Bob for the Duck. If you can find a pence 27-29 I'll be impressed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Gnasher said:

Just checking you know what you're talking about. :whistle:

It's worth the occasional challenge. Even I'm wrong once or twice a century :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"STOP HIM! IF COLOSSUS RISES, ALL MANKIND IS DOOMED!"

tos20.thumb.jpg.d9de70da05530925186700a15e83d2d0.jpg

 

No, never mind all that. Look at this instead:

Fun With Marvel Pence Variant Indicias Chapter One: The Thorpe & Porter Years

 

Hello :)

As promised, here's the first in an occasional series on variant indicias. I thought I'd summarise the various types that can be found in the early Marvel pence variants, having already summarised the cover changes - price, date, banner variations etc - in earlier posts in the thread. 

We already know that, aside from a handful of western titles, all Marvel pence variants were solicited and distributed by Thorpe and Porter (henceforth to be referred to as T&P) in the UK.  In this post I'll just concentrate on those for now, and leave the Miller westerns for another day (they have their own variant indicias of course).

T&P started importing pence priced Marvels from May 1960 with indicias that differed to their cents priced counterparts. There are three types as follows.

Type 1

320726437_TPAug1960.thumb.jpg.30b0a723f173d341a5868a077707276c.jpg

The first type appears in issues cover dated May 1960 to December 1960 inclusive. There are 12 titles within this date range with known pence variants and every copy that I've owned / seen (excluding the Miller westerns) has an indicia as shown above, characterised by the absence of the regular cents details, duly replaced with large font T&P wording.

Type 2

1453893735_TPType2.thumb.jpg.0fff554ab9232d15386a90e8156a7387.jpg

The second type appears in issues cover dated January 1961 to July 1961 and, as you can see, has the full cents indicia but with an additional line of T&P data immediately after it.

Type 3

847749069_TPMay1963.thumb.jpg.ca3f8a85e3b27c09ef9f1a26b2721615.jpg

The third and final variant type appears in issues cover dated September 1961 to November 1964.  Type 3 mirrors the type 2 version, but this time with the T&P wording separated from the cents text.

In all cases the cover price for all three types is 9d and the end of the variant indicias coincides with the November/December 1964 to July/August 1965 gap in which no pence copies were produced. On their return from August/September 1965 the cover price becomes 10d and the variant indicias cease forever - all copies from this point carry the same uniform cents indicias. 

As is often the case though, their are exceptions. It's rare you get one consistent pattern with comics and, sure enough, all pence copies cover dated August 1961 do not have variant indicias.  There are only four Marvel pence variants indicia dated August 1961 - JIM #71, TOS #20, TTA #22 and ST #87. Here's the indicia of the aforeposted TOS #20 which I own:

tos20i.thumb.jpg.ec8d8c62169466283635256261c280cc.jpg

No T&P wording.

And here is an image of JIM #71's indicia - again - no T&P wording:

71i.thumb.jpg.73c8fbc7f36121e13fcebcbdd75b9afb.jpg

I'm reliably informed that TTA #22 doesn't have a variant indicia either so will hang my hat on ST #87 being without a T&P variation too. I'll let you know if that changes of course.

So, in summary, three T&P variant pence indicia 'types' across the May 1960 to November 1964 inclusive period. In pence honoured fashion, we end with a pretty summary picture:

1-3.PNG.dc66e2314339250aa5a73f3fe59f1c85.PNG

In future posts I'll cover the Miller Westerns, and the presence of T&P indicias in cents priced books (which links to the font variations research, which links to the existence of pence copies research :whatthe:).  

Such a fertile time, the early 60's, for comic nuances and variations!

Have fun :)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fun With Marvel Pence Variant Indicias Chapter One: The Thorpe & Porter Years - Epilogue

Another exception to the above is that wayward gunslinger, Kid Colt Outlaw. If we look at this summary of the L Miller variants, you can see how KCO 98, 99 and 100 all have non-variant indicias, at odds with the other Marvel pence books (the '9d Blank' of the chart meaning no L Miller or T&P variant details):

2.1.thumb.PNG.33e8e1fc8aeed4aa3a77d30f25e861dd.PNG

So the Kid is odd because he wasn't picked up by L Miller when Gunsmoke Western, Two Gun Kid and (TBC) Wyatt Earp was. He doesn't have pence variants for 90, 92-94 where other titles do and he now has indicias at odds with other titles content. It's like they didn't know what to do with him.

Still, there's always one isn't there...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Get Marwood & I, this has been incredibly in-depth and interesting to read.  I don't know how long you have been researching and diving into the pence copies, but you've done a magnificent job.  I've only recently acquired a few pence copies of books.  Captain Marvel 25, Fantastic Four 59, and Avengers 196.  I did a little of my own research into it before making purchases.  But, as far as my collection goes, they are a nice addition, and something more unique than the standard cents copy.  The thrill of finding high grade pence copies interests me.  I know it isn't everyone's cup of tea, but to each their own.  I've seen people into Whitman copies, Canadian newsstand copies, and US newsstand copies, but the pence copies seem almost undervalued to me.  I feel like there would be less of them and the journey to the UK would take its toll on some books.  Again, though, fantastic read and look forward to more posts in this thread!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
16 16