Marvel UK Price Variants 16 16

[Get Marwood & I]

7 minutes ago, rakehell said:

Yes, you have, Herbert.

Sorry Barry 

[Get Marwood & I]

8 minutes ago, rakehell said:

 

Never mind your Honey Nut Loops & your silly Muesli...

Rabbit hole...Coco Puffs...

Wait a minute... That's not chocolate...

[rakehell]

2 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Sorry Barry 

S'okay Lucy. I forget my own name if'n it's not sewed in my drawers.

[Get Marwood & I]

Some pence related ponderings in my 'font variations' thread here, which may be of interest following the earlier debates here:

[rakehell]

Strange Tales 93 anyone?

It's up on Ebay currently:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Strange-Tales-93-Vol-1-Marvel-Comics/333170778974?hash=item4d9286a35e:g:640AAOSw9GdcrwcK

From Germany, like that makes sense.

[rakehell]

Sgt Fury #1

Also on Ebay now:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sgt-Fury-and-his-Howling-Commandos-comic-1-May-1963-Marvel-GD-phil-comics/362624362634?hash=item546e18a88a:g:kuEAAOSw6IlcuKU~

Can everyone tell I'm skiving at work...

[Redshade]

4 hours ago, rakehell said:

Sgt Fury #1

Also on Ebay now:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sgt-Fury-and-his-Howling-Commandos-comic-1-May-1963-Marvel-GD-phil-comics/362624362634?hash=item546e18a88a:g:kuEAAOSw6IlcuKU~

Can everyone tell I'm skiving at work...

I have used this dealer before and can recommend him. He is a great bloke and a credit to eBay.

Edited April 26, 2019 by Redshade

[Get Marwood & I]

Afternoon 

Scroll back a few posts and you'll find a debate concerning the merits of my calling the pence books in this thread "First Printing Pence Priced Variants". I've never been a fan of CGC's "U.K. Edition" label approach as it does not, in my opinion, adequately identify the fact that the books are first printing variants and not later reprints with repackaged content for the UK market.

To further illustrate, and building on Rakehells earlier post, here are four books that CGC have labelled as "U.K. Editions":

The first two are first printing price variants - one Marvel, one DC - both produced concurrently in the US with their US priced counterparts:

 

The next two are reprints - books that were made in the UK, with repackaged US content:

  

 

To call all four books "UK Editions" muddies the waters as it gives the impression that they are all the same thing which we know they are not. I would prefer to see CGC use label descriptions that highlight the key differences so that any lingering confusion is removed and the two separate entities are promoted as they should be.

As readers of my US Price Font thread will know, I contacted CGC recently about the known variations in cents fonts for some early US marvels and Matt Nelson replied saying that he would look into them. In his reply, and I'm sure he won't mind me mentioning it here (as all debate can only help draw out the answer, if there is one), he said that CGC graders had identified that the "ink saturation, page quality and overall ageing effects of those books [the pence copies] clearly contrast with the US editions". Matt advised that CGC were trying to identify if anyone from Sparta, or any industry contacts, could shed any light as to why this should be so.

There are a number of reasons why the early pence books may have a better page / ink quality and we've discussed them in this thread. There has been speculation in the past that maybe it is because they were produced first. This further assessment from CGC doesn't mean that they were of course - it may be they were produced separately or even, contrary to popular opinion, elsewhere.  But CGC graders themselves have identified a difference, and they handle more books than most, so it's not something that can be ignored. 

I hope that they will be able to find out information about this and that maybe we will get an answer that settles this long running question. If they are successful, and can promote a final, common understanding of the production order, my next step will be to see if I can convince them to change their labelling. 

In the meantime, just a few more books needed before I hit you all with the final Thorpe & Porter indicia research. So much for me saying there was "nothing left to report" in this thread, a few months ago! 

[Redshade]

3 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Afternoon 

Scroll back a few posts and you'll find a debate concerning the merits of my calling the pence books in this thread "First Printing Pence Priced Variants". I've never been a fan of CGC's "U.K. Edition" label approach as it does not, in my opinion, adequately identify the fact that the books are first printing variants and not later reprints with repackaged content for the UK market.

To further illustrate, and building on Rakehells earlier post, here are four books that CGC have labelled as "U.K. Editions":

The first two are first printing price variants - one Marvel, one DC - both produced concurrently in the US with their US priced counterparts:

 

The next two are reprints - books that were made in the UK, with repackaged US content:

  

 

To call all four books "UK Editions" muddies the waters as it gives the impression that they are all the same thing which we know they are not. I would prefer to see CGC use label descriptions that highlight the key differences so that any lingering confusion is removed and the two separate entities are promoted as they should be.

As readers of my US Price Font thread will know, I contacted CGC recently about the known variations in cents fonts for some early US marvels and Matt Nelson replied saying that he would look into them. In his reply, and I'm sure he won't mind me mentioning it here (as all debate can only help draw out the answer, if there is one), he said that CGC graders had identified that the "ink saturation, page quality and overall ageing effects of those books [the pence copies] clearly contrast with the US editions". Matt advised that CGC were trying to identify if anyone from Sparta, or any industry contacts, could shed any light as to why this should be so.

There are a number of reasons why the early pence books may have a better page / ink quality and we've discussed them in this thread. There has been speculation in the past that maybe it is because they were produced first. This further assessment from CGC doesn't mean that they were of course - it may be they were produced separately or even, contrary to popular opinion, elsewhere.  But CGC graders themselves have identified a difference, and they handle more books than most, so it's not something that can be ignored. 

I hope that they will be able to find out information about this and that maybe we will get an answer that settles this long running question. If they are successful, and can promote a final, common understanding of the production order, my next step will be to see if I can convince them to change their labelling. 

In the meantime, just a few more books needed before I hit you all with the final Thorpe & Porter indicia research. So much for me saying there was "nothing left to report" in this thread, a few months ago! 

Evening Steve. The four books you show here should make Matt/CGC take another look at all your work about this subject. It's probably my being an old cynic which leads me to the conclusion that rather than admit ignorance on the matter that Matt/CGC are coming on all pompous and trying to blind us with their "expertise".

"ink saturation, page quality and overall ageing effects of those books [the pence copies] clearly contrast with the US editions"

[Get Marwood & I]

6 minutes ago, Redshade said:

Evening Steve. The four books you show here should make Matt/CGC take another look at all your work about this subject. It's probably my being an old cynic which leads me to the conclusion that rather than admit ignorance on the matter that Matt/CGC are coming on all pompous and trying to blind us with their "expertise".

"ink saturation, page quality and overall ageing effects of those books [the pence copies] clearly contrast with the US editions"

He said he had read this thread Stephen, and seemed genuinely interested in it all. I don't think it's ignorance - probably more likely that it's just not an area they have delved too deeply into given the overall lack of interest from large swathes of the US collecting community. In the main, CGC is an American company grading American creations. It stands to reason that they would have a lighter focus on books aimed at a narrower, non-US market. But I detect genuine interest, and am hopeful that we can help firm up the understanding of non US priced books, as others are doing elsewhere for, for example, AUS priced copies. 

[bc]

1 minute ago, Get Marwood & I said:

He said he had read this thread Stephen, and seemed genuinely interested in it all. I don't think it's ignorance - probably more likely that it's just not an area they have delved too deeply into given the overall lack of interest from large swathes of the US collecting community. In the main, CGC is an American company grading American creations. It stands to reason that they would have a lighter focus on books aimed at a narrower, non-US market. But I detect genuine interest, and am hopeful that we can help firm up the understanding of non US priced books, as others are doing elsewhere for, for example, AUS priced copies. 

Keep on 'em!

It is worth noting that one of the underlying value propositions of dealing with CGC is the data they collect and share. The Census provides classification statistics (how many of what grade Blue, Green, PLOD, Sig) as well as location specific data like your "U.K. Edition" conundrum. The actual bar code on the slab contains a significant quantity of data that some of us are taking advantage of to expedite record keeping.

I realize the Census is not 100% accurate, but the desire to improve the accuracy of the data would demonstrate to customers that CGC is proactively attempting to maintain/expand this specific value proposition.

These boards prove that there is a global collecting community, if they are prudent, they can use these improved metrics to market to a potential customer base OR create other potential revenue streams/value propositions.

-bc

 

[Get Marwood & I]

4 minutes ago, bc said:

Keep on 'em!

It is worth noting that one of the underlying value propositions of dealing with CGC is the data they collect and share. The Census provides classification statistics (how many of what grade Blue, Green, PLOD, Sig) as well as location specific data like your "U.K. Edition" conundrum. The actual bar code on the slab contains a significant quantity of data that some of us are taking advantage of to expedite record keeping.

I realize the Census is not 100% accurate, but the desire to improve the accuracy of the data would demonstrate to customers that CGC is proactively attempting to maintain/expand this specific value proposition.

These boards prove that there is a global collecting community, if they are prudent, they can use these improved metrics to market to a potential customer base OR create other potential revenue streams/value propositions.

-bc

 

What bc said. 

[bc]

3 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

What bc said. 

That took the last of my brain juice today.

Time to refill the thinker with a pint (or four)

 

[Redshade]

16 minutes ago, bc said:

That took the last of my brain juice today.

Time to refill the thinker with a pint (or four)

 

Cheers!

I've just opened a bottle of something red (and cheap) myself.

I do not hold any real malice towards Matt/CGC and agree that they do a tremendous job.

Perhaps after a few more sips any further observations of mine will be a tad more mellow.

[Get Marwood & I]

4 minutes ago, Redshade said:

Cheers!

I've just opened a bottle of something red (and cheap) myself.

I do not hold any real malice towards Matt/CGC and agree that they do a tremendous job.

Perhaps after a few more sips any further observations of mine will be a tad more mellow.

Naah. Part of the fun, having a pop Stephen. They should expect it in business. "UK Edition" Indeed....

[mec3437]

[mec3437]

My personal opinion is that they should be listed as UK price variants on slab labels, but I don't pump enough money into CGC to make that happen.

[Get Marwood & I]

1 hour ago, mec3437 said:

 

Aint she pretty 

1 hour ago, mec3437 said:

My personal opinion is that they should be listed as UK price variants on slab labels, but I don't pump enough money into CGC to make that happen.

Good suggestion Mec. I may have to run a poll.

(Sharp intake of breath) any other suggestions as to what they should be labelled as? 

 

[mec3437]

16 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Aint she pretty 

Good suggestion Mec. I may have to run a poll.

(Sharp intake of breath) any other suggestions as to what they should be labelled as? 

 

I think that would be sufficient.  I've noticed it on Canadian and Australian priced books as well.  They're labeled as "(insert country) Edition".  It's somewhat misleading, since UK, CAN, and AUS priced books are first prints.  I know AUS priced books have different distribution months on them (New Mutants 98 being the big example used May vs Feb with February still being in the index of the AUS variant).  In any case, it's essentially just a variant.  First print, different monetary value.  

[Get Marwood & I]

1 hour ago, mec3437 said:

I think that would be sufficient.  I've noticed it on Canadian and Australian priced books as well.  They're labeled as "(insert country) Edition".  It's somewhat misleading, since UK, CAN, and AUS priced books are first prints.  I know AUS priced books have different distribution months on them (New Mutants 98 being the big example used May vs Feb with February still being in the index of the AUS variant).  In any case, it's essentially just a variant.  First print, different monetary value.  

A man after my own heart. The original title to this thread was actually "Marvel First Printing Pence Priced Variants". I got admin to change it as it just seemed to go on too long. The title, not the thread that is