Marvel UK Price Variants 16 16

[Get Marwood & I]

16 minutes ago, Redshade said:

I think that this has been discussed on these boards and elsewhere before.

It was here wasn't it Stephen?

8 minutes ago, Redshade said:

PS. This means that the UK and other foreign publishers would have received the full (larger) artwork which the US publishers had to crop. This "extra" artwork can be seen on (tens of?) thousands of UK and other foreign reprints.

Not sure in this example - see below

On 5/9/2019 at 5:30 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

Found it:

 

So, someone added a bit more cop then. Not a bad effort at all 

 

[Redshade]

12 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

It was here wasn't it Stephen?

Not sure in this example - see below

 

Not sure what you are getting at here Steve. The US version has cropped the original artwork. The foreign reprinters obviously had access to the original uncropped artwork which had more of the cop on the right (as seen in the UK reprint) and more of the bloke on the left (as seen in the Italian reprint). I'm not claiming the foreign publishers used all of the original artwork and must have cropped the original artwork in ways that suited them.

It is unthinkable that UK editors would commission artists to add more art on the right and equally unlikely that Italian editors would have commissioned more artwork to the left.

Edited March 5, 2020 by Redshade

[Get Marwood & I]

16 minutes ago, Redshade said:

Not sure what you are getting at here Steve. The US version has cropped the original artwork. The foreign reprinters obviously had access to the original uncropped artwork which had more of the cop on the right (as seen in the UK reprint) and more of the bloke on the left (as seen in the Italian reprint). I'm not claiming the foreign publishers used all of the original artwork and must have cropped the original artwork in ways that suited them.

It is unthinkable that UK editors would commission artists to add more art on the right and equally unlikely that Italian editors would have commissioned more artwork to the left.

In the case of ASM #96, I'm assuming the art on the original US cover above is itself original and not cropped or a stat. If it is original, and drawn directly on the board, the additional art that we see on foreign copies never existed as Kane drew up to the line. If it has been cropped and pasted on, any additional art is now cut away / discarded from the original work. So the 'full' OA no longer exists, if it ever did. When the UK reprints were being made years later, the full OA would no longer exist to send them, nor, presumably, a copy of it if that's what was sent. Does that make sense or am I talking baloney Stephen?  To me, it looks like the additional side art on both the foreign reprints above have been added in. Remember, a lot of the UK reprints have original covers so the idea one of those artists would not be avaialble to add art to fill the UK page size on examples like this doesn't seem that odd to me. Interesting discussion though. 

[Redshade]

19 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

In the case of ASM #96, I'm assuming the art on the original US cover above is itself original and not cropped or a stat. If it is original, and drawn directly on the board, the additional art that we see on foreign copies never existed as Kane drew up to the line. If it has been cropped and pasted on, any additional art is now cut away / discarded from the original work. So the 'full' OA no longer exists, if it ever did. When the UK reprints were being made years later, the full OA would no longer exist to send them, nor, presumably, a copy of it if that's what was sent. Does that make sense or am I talking baloney Stephen?  To me, it looks like the additional side art on both the foreign reprints above have been added in. Remember, a lot of the UK reprints have original covers so the idea one of those artists would not be avaialble to add art to fill the UK page size on examples like this doesn't seem that odd to me. Interesting discussion though. 

Sorry Steve given the amount of reprints out there I just cannot believe it feasible that extra artwork would be commissioned when a foreign editor could just blow up and recrop if he had a larger space to fill. Indeed I have seen foreign editions where the covers were a blown up internal panel. We'll have to agree to differ on this Steve. I do seem to recall that you were not totally convinced when we discussed this previously. Occam's razor and all that.

 

 

All opinions given are my own of course and I retain the right to be a complete and utter nincompoop at all times,

Edited March 5, 2020 by Redshade

[Get Marwood & I]

3 minutes ago, Redshade said:

Sorry Steve given the amount of reprints out there I just cannot believe it feasible that extra artwork would be commissioned when a foreign editor could just blow up and recrop if he had a larger space to fill. Indeed I have seen foreign editions where the covers were a blown up internal panel. We'll have to agree to differ on this Steve. i do seem to recall that you were not totally convinced when we discussed this previously.

 

All opinions given are my own of course and I retain the right to be a complete and utter nincompoop at all times,

Agree to differ? You do know this is the CGC board don't you Stephen. We will fight to the death over this! 

 

Night mate 

[Redshade]

5 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Agree to differ? You do know this is the CGC board don't you Stephen. We will fight to the death over this! 

 

Night mate 

And goodnight to you my good sir (although I'm a bit of a night-owl and having just opened this evening's bottle shall be here for a goodly few hours yet).

[Redshade]

On 3/5/2020 at 10:07 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

Agree to differ? You do know this is the CGC board don't you Stephen. We will fight to the death over this! 

 

Night mate 

I have just found this on https://www.comicsvalue.com/Amazing-Fantasy-15-Alan-Class-1963-UK-Edition-Variant-1-SpiderMan-RARE-not-CGC/121253519637.html

Alan Class Comics was a British comics publishing company between 1959 and 1989, owned by Alan Class (born in London, England July 21, 1937). The company produced anthology titles, reprinting comics stories from many U.S. publishers of the 1940s to 1960s in a black and white digest format for a U.K. audience.

 Since the books were wider than the American originals, all the cover art was visible where American printings were cut-off . The reason: By the 1960s the width of American comics shrank while artists used the same size art boards. So the American versions look cut-off while Alan Class covers don't.

[Get Marwood & I]

4 minutes ago, Redshade said:

I have just found this on https://www.comicsvalue.com/Amazing-Fantasy-15-Alan-Class-1963-UK-Edition-Variant-1-SpiderMan-RARE-not-CGC/121253519637.html

Alan Class Comics was a British comics publishing company between 1959 and 1989, owned by Alan Class (born in London, England July 21, 1937). The company produced anthology titles, reprinting comics stories from many U.S. publishers of the 1940s to 1960s in a black and white digest format for a U.K. audience.

 Since the books were wider than the American originals, all the cover art was visible where American printings were cut-off . The reason: By the 1960s the width of American comics shrank while artists used the same size art boards. So the American versions look cut-off while Alan Class covers don't.

Good old Alan. And I thought it was only Charlton comics that gave you more! 

[mikeyc67]

Steve

Just picked up this L. Miller Gunsmoke Western # 62! 

Cheers

Mikey

[Get Marwood & I]

14 hours ago, mikeyc67 said:

Steve

Just picked up this L. Miller Gunsmoke Western # 62! 

Cheers

Mikey

Very nice. I like the 6d cover stamp - not the usual Miller one 

[MR SigS]

On 11/16/2018 at 1:07 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

On we go.

In my post here from page five I show the three differences between the pence copies of ASM #1 and it's centless cousin:

 

 

Those differences again (Mr Plow):

1. Price (duh!)
2. Missing month in the issue box
3. Thorpe & Porter indicia

I saw some speculation in a thread elsewhere once about trying pass off a pence copy as a cents, by removing the cover price. I joined in, mentioned the other two differences, and was ignored. No change there.

Sure enough, someone has had a go at it - look at this ebay listing here:

 

Hmmm. The copy conveniently has its price and date box removed 

A closer look:

 

But look - they haven't torn off the bottom so, if it is a pence copy, the indicia will give the game away with a Thorpe & Porter logo.

If you think about it, assuming it's a pence copy:

1. CGC missed it. Don't they read my threads? 
2. The buyer will pay 'cents' prices
3. Mycomicshop are selling it (in good faith)

Not very satisfactory is it?

I wish someone would buy it and crack it open. Of course, it may just be a brutalised cents copy. But can you think of another reason to cut away the date and price? There are unscrupulous people out there.... possibly called Brian 

Updating this chapter of the thread. I purchased this ASM1 from MCS, and then started the process of verifying whether or not it's a US copy. Conan at MCS was very helpful in this, and notified me that CGC says it is indeed a US copy.

UNFORTUNATELY, while I requested that this copy be returned to me raw IF IT IS A US COPY, so I could see for myself, it was returned in a new case (no Newton Rings fwiw) without any note assuring it is a US Copy.

I would have hoped that since all identifying marks on the outside was cut out, the label would have addressed that detail. Aside from Conan's confirmation via CGC (I don't think he saw the US Indicia personally, so he's going by CGC's word), I find myself pretty much exactly where I started.

So after several months, I still need to decide how I want to handle this. I don't sell comics, but IF I had to sell this, I'd be lucky to get FMV as is because there simply is no way to be sure, and I couldn't blame anyone for being cautious. I can open it myself (recorded, of course), but it's been suggested that I bring it to a convention where CGC is set up, and do it there (also recorded).

If the label had simply said, "US Copy", I'd feel much better about it.

 

And now we're back where we started
Here we go round again

… Do it again

Edited March 13, 2020 by MR SigS

[Redshade]

MR SigS/MarwoodandI. Remind me please. Were all AS-M 1s printed with a T&P indicia or just the pence variant?

[Kevin.J]

2 hours ago, Redshade said:

MR SigS/MarwoodandI. Remind me please. Were all AS-M 1s printed with a T&P indicia or just the pence variant?

Just the Pence copy has the T&P indica, Cents copies dont have it, at least thats in my experience and I have seen a lot of both over the years

At least the GR reprint has a different back cover, or it could have been really scary 

Edited March 13, 2020 by Kevin.J

[MR SigS]

17 hours ago, Kevin.J said:

At least the GR reprint has a different back cover, or it could have been really scary 

The CCA stamp and the ASM logo line up differently on the GRR also.

[Kevin.J]

1 hour ago, MR SigS said:

The CCA stamp and the ASM logo line up differently on the GRR also.

Yeah, I was just trying to be funny.

TBH I would bet this is a Cents copy a undamaged Pence copy would be way more valuable than this, so lose money rather than make money to create this.

[GermanFan]

10 cent cover but inside cover says printed for Miller, London.

[Get Marwood & I]

On 3/13/2020 at 5:46 PM, MR SigS said:

Updating this chapter of the thread. I purchased this ASM1 from MCS, and then started the process of verifying whether or not it's a US copy. Conan at MCS was very helpful in this, and notified me that CGC says it is indeed a US copy.

UNFORTUNATELY, while I requested that this copy be returned to me raw IF IT IS A US COPY, so I could see for myself, it was returned in a new case (no Newton Rings fwiw) without any note assuring it is a US Copy.

I would have hoped that since all identifying marks on the outside was cut out, the label would have addressed that detail. Aside from Conan's confirmation via CGC (I don't think he saw the US Indicia personally, so he's going by CGC's word), I find myself pretty much exactly where I started.

So after several months, I still need to decide how I want to handle this. I don't sell comics, but IF I had to sell this, I'd be lucky to get FMV as is because there simply is no way to be sure, and I couldn't blame anyone for being cautious. I can open it myself (recorded, of course), but it's been suggested that I bring it to a convention where CGC is set up, and do it there (also recorded).

If the label had simply said, "US Copy", I'd feel much better about it.

 

And now we're back where we started
Here we go round again

… Do it again

CGC have again let you down a bit here I think, as you are having to take their word for it. Will that word help you if and when you come to sell? Does their third hand edition type confirmation ease your mind? Of course not. I am discussing a similar scenario by PM with another boardie who has another slabbed pence copy made to look like a cents. In both cases, I feel CGC haven't done the right thing and left the owner / any future owner with doubt and a headache by not stating explicity what the case is (no pun intended). I think your mind is not at rest - understandably so - so I would myself be looking for CGC to clarify the matter to your satisfaction, even if that means a further submission - which I would expect them to pay for. Good luck. 

P.S. As we discussed in our PMs, I sent CGC (Brittany) a summary of how to determine a pence copy from a cents way back last year when I saw your book for sale on eBay. CGC make mistakes all the time. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that they haven't made / compounded another. They should have said "this book has no Thorpe and Porter indicia" and added that to the label or at least the grading notes. They should have made it clear that they understood exactly what they were looking for to make their determination. Simply saying "Yes, its a cents copy" doesn't remove the doubt in my opinion. 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 3/18/2020 at 1:47 PM, GermanFan said:

10 cent cover but inside cover says printed for Miller, London.

Nice 

 

[MR SigS]

7 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said:

CGC have again let you down a bit here I think, as you are having to take their word for it. Will that word help you if and when you come to sell? Does their third hand edition type confirmation ease your mind? Of course not. I am discussing a similar scenario by PM with another boardie who has another slabbed pence copy made to look like a cents. In both cases, I feel CGC haven't done the right thing and left the owner / any future owner with doubt and a headache by not stating explicity what the case is (no pun intended). I think your mind is not at rest - understandably so - so I would myself be looking for CGC to clarify the matter to your satisfaction, even if that means a further submission - which I would expect them to pay for. Good luck. 

P.S. As we discussed in our PMs, I sent CGC (Brittany) a summary of how to determine a pence copy from a cents way back last year when I saw your book for sale on eBay. CGC make mistakes all the time. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that they haven't made / compounded another. They should have said "this book has no Thorpe and Porter indicia" and added that to the label or at least the grading notes. They should have made it clear that they understood exactly what they were looking for to make their determination. Simply saying "Yes, its a cents copy" doesn't remove the doubt in my opinion. 

It does look like I'm going to have to start over- I just HATE the thought of this book once again running the shipping gauntlet since I'm not sure if I'll be attending any conventions soon. I do agree that any further shipping fees should be on them since I have no way of knowing 100% for sure that this wasn't simply treated as a reholder.  Other than assurances via PM, i see no indications otherwise.

Yay.

[Get Marwood & I]

16 minutes ago, MR SigS said:

It does look like I'm going to have to start over- I just HATE the thought of this book once again running the shipping gauntlet since I'm not sure if I'll be attending any conventions soon. I do agree that any further shipping fees should be on them since I have no way of knowing 100% for sure that this wasn't simply treated as a reholder.  Other than assurances via PM, i see no indications otherwise.

Yay.

Yay indeed. With all that is going on in the world it feels a little inappropriate to complain, but in isolation they (CGC) aren't very good at this kind of thing I'm afraid. Books that are worth thousands shouldn't have question marks hanging over them. It would be quite simple to set a policy to cover this scenario - what to look for and how to record it. AF#15 will be next, and someone may lose a lot of money if the correct notes aren't made, especially for books that have been tampered with in an attempt to deceive.

Lately, I've lost a bit of interest with CGC myself I'm sorry to say. I was encouraged by their willingness to revise their labelling approach for UK, Canadian and Australian copies last year but since then, every interaction I have had with their staff or representatives - including those that administer this site - has been disappointing. It's not the right time to make anything of it though of course, with the issues facing the world today. 

If you do send it back, pop back and update us won't you MR SigS. Maybe that will force a policy review, if you do send it back again. I'm sorry that you ended up the guinea pig if so.