Marvel UK Price Variants 16 16

[Get Marwood & I]

Here's another printing scenario Geoff, along similar lines @Pinkerton

If the pence copy was run first in this instance below, with it's anecdotal print run of only 1-5% of the total run, how likely is it that the ink would have run out so soon?

 

Cents first, deep colours...

...plate switch to pence, starting to fade...

...near the end of the run, ink running out...

But as I say, I'm not a printing expert. Maybe the ink in the last copy is missing completely, not running out. Maybe that was first, they spotted the absence, stopped the run and added it. You can always speculate multiple ways I find...

 

[Kevin.J]

Gunsmoke looks more like fading to me than printing, but again I am no expert in the printing process.

I looked for my FF 119 out of curiosity this morning and find my main copy is a Cents  

I have been writing notes of the backing board of every comic I buy for at least 25 years, no notes here, so I have had it at least that long.

I have been complete with FF for a long time, I would guess this is an upgrade of a lower grade Pence copy as a lot of my issues around this number are Pence and I would bet I have a lower grade Pence among my duplicates but they are too far buried to find easy  

My copy is a red with yellow corner, I guess we are no further forward but I dont think it matters to very many people, buncha nerds 

 

[Kevin.J]

Found an old Pence FF10 while I was looking though, long since upgraded to a better Cents copy again no notes

 

 

[Pinkerton]

2 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Nice post Pinkerton - I like the way your mind works.

That said, and I am certainly no expert on the printing process, here is an alternative possibility:

The cents run begins first, and all is well:

Half way through the cents run, a small piece of the plate breaks off, or the ink runs low, or an obstruction falls on the plate which causes a small area of red not to print:

Then, a larger piece of the plate breaks off or the obstruction moves etc, eliminating the entire red area within the 'F':

The plate is then changed to pence and continues unnoticed to its conclusion:

There is a mix of full and half printed cents copies on ebay but every pence copy (that I have seen) has the error as you said. So the sequence above could be just as likely as the one you posited. I'm also not sure that the error would have been noticed, or even if it were, that they would have stopped the presses to correct it (anecdotal evidence suggests that the process was quick and dirty in them days and they were 'only kids comics' anyway)

We will probably never know. I remain of the belief that the printing order varied down the years, i.e. sometimes pence copies were run first, perhaps to get them on the boat quicker, other times not. I also believe that it doesn't really matter. I see each run as one entity - it shouldn't matter which was first to be done - the pence and cents copies are all part of one end to end print run, one production request.

It may well be that some early pence copies have deeper colour strikes - as CGC themselves have noted - as a result of being printed first, making them more visually attractive. But in the majority of cases, I find, the currency denomination overrides that aspect in the eyes of the average collector.

I do enjoy the speculation though. 

 

 

Thanks for this well-laid-out reply - I wish I could do that kind of thing.

Your argument is sound as far as I understand the printing process, and without thinking clearly about how the printing is done I think I jumped to a hasty conclusion. Looking back over this thread and the conversations with Aman618 back in Jan 2018 (page 13), what we have is a 5-plate print process - Cyan, Magenta and Yellow (which would be the same for both Cents and pence runs) and then two black or K plates (one with Cents price and one with Pence, but otherwise identical. One price run would be done, then just the K plate would be changed and the second run done.

In order to print the red colour correctly in the logo, both the Yellow and Magenta plates have to have that section of the plate raised (i.e. not etched away) in order for both to pick up ink: the addition of magenta to yellow gives the red colour. If for any reason the magenta fails to print, you will get yellow as seen in the Cents Logo Colour Variant. This could not happen as a result of ink running out as with some printing errors, as only this small area is affected. If my earlier suggestion (that the yellow patch variant came off the presses earlier, and then got corrected) was right, this would mean that at the start of printing, on the Magenta plate the raised area required to add magenta ink in that patch was missing. Then, to fix it there and then, somehow the printers would have had to build up the surface in that area to give the ink a surface to coat.I don't know whether that is possible - I can imagine something being scraped off, but not added.

Your alternative, that printing started with correct Yellow plus Magenta (=red), but then that section of the Magenta plate started to fragment (first giving a "tell-tale" partial yellow/red patch) and finally fell off completely (leaving just yellow for the rest of the Cents run) seems much more plausible. Perhaps there are more than one "intermediate" stages in the disintegration. And then of course as you suggest, the K plate was swapped and the Pence run performed.

Hang on, I've just realised what a rabbit hole I'm taking the thread down. Apologies. However if anyone reading this knows of a more relevant thread I could consult about how comic printing was managed, let me know.

Best, Geoff

 

[Kevin.J]

There have been dozens of threads over the years Geoff, some with boardies that worked on the presses at the time.

The search functions here were never too good and some of the boardies are long gone and my memory slips

Keep going with any theories, it keeps this great thread going and its always fun to speculate, even if we just go around in circles and we will never know the truth  

[Bart Allen]

The Real Ghostbusters #1, which predates the American comic ~

 

Edited June 4, 2020 by Bart Allen

[ADAMANTIUM]

Awesome Posts Guys!!

and Awesome board name @Pinkerton  

You mean like the band Weezer right?  anyway  carry on!  

[Get Marwood & I]

1 hour ago, Pinkerton said:

Hang on, I've just realised what a rabbit hole I'm taking the thread down. Apologies. However if anyone reading this knows of a more relevant thread I could consult about how comic printing was managed, let me know.

Best, Geoff

Talk away Geoff, talk away. In fact, I'll invite @Aman619 along and you can fight it out with him 

There's not a lot left to discuss about Marvel pence copies now so it'll keep the thread going as Kevin said

1 hour ago, Kevin.J said:

Gunsmoke looks more like fading to me than printing, but again I am no expert in the printing process.

I don't think so Kevin. One thing I do know is that red goes first with sun fade and, unless both sides sat in the sunlight, you rarely find a faded back cover too:

 

[Get Marwood & I]

1 hour ago, Kevin.J said:

I have been writing notes of the backing board of every comic I buy for at least 25 years, no notes here, so I have had it at least that long.

This isn't you is it Kevin? (from my Charlton thread) 

[cgcsketcherz]

1 hour ago, Bart Allen said:

The Real Ghostbusters #1, which predates the American comic ~

 

The want list just got added to again.....

[Kevin.J]

1 hour ago, Get Marwood & I said:

This isn't you is it Kevin? (from my Charlton thread) 

Haha, that is a book from ebay seller tiktokmano, I used to buy lots from him back in the day.

You should know that it wasnt me as I NEVER EVER sell anything 

[mec3437]

Shout out to @Redshade for the great books!  Thank you!

3 more X-Men pence copies off the list.

Edited June 5, 2020 by mec3437

[Redshade]

6 minutes ago, mec3437 said:

Shout out to @Redshade for the great books!  Thank you!

3 more X-Men pence copies off the list.

Thanks for the shout out Mike. So glad they arrived safely.

[Kevin.J]

Nice guys, spreading the Pence love 

[Bart Allen]

On 6/4/2020 at 3:01 PM, cgcsketcherz said:

The want list just got added to again.....

So it should 

I have two copies, but I accidentally creased the cover of my first one - the aim is to get both signed by the cast of Ghostbusters: Afterlife sometime next year ~

[cgcsketcherz]

1 hour ago, Bart Allen said:

So it should 

I have two copies, but I accidentally creased the cover of my first one - the aim is to get both signed by the cast of Ghostbusters: Afterlife sometime next year ~

Very cool, good luck on the hunt!

[Bart Allen]

12 hours ago, cgcsketcherz said:

Very cool, good luck on the hunt!

Just bought this one right now for £20 ($24) - and it came with the original badge:

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

[cgcsketcherz]

5 hours ago, Bart Allen said:

Just bought this one right now for £20 ($24) - and it came with the original badge:

 

  Hide contents

 

 

 

Very nice pickup. Was the badge originally distributed with tape? I would have thought it be a bagged deal with the badge loose. 

[Kevin.J]

58 minutes ago, cgcsketcherz said:

Very nice pickup. Was the badge originally distributed with tape? I would have thought it be a bagged deal with the badge loose. 

I would think it had the tape, a lot of British comics came like this back in the day, most titles that had a free gift of some kind had the tell tale tape stains  

The best ones have the gift inside, then at least the cover is okay, some staining examples.

Sorry as none of these are Marvel Pence copies but just trying to help answering the question  

 

[cgcsketcherz]

2 hours ago, Kevin.J said:

I would think it had the tape, a lot of British comics came like this back in the day, most titles that had a free gift of some kind had the tell tale tape stains  

The best ones have the gift inside, then at least the cover is okay, some staining examples.

Sorry as none of these are Marvel Pence copies but just trying to help answering the question  

 

Thank you for the knowledge, I guess it used to be a hands on finishing touch then back in the day.