Are Comic Book conventions really Comic Book conventions? 1 1

[Lt. Eckhardt]

Does NY Comic Con still have a decent amount of comic book dealers?  If it has become like SDCC, I don't think I would want to go anymore.

[Ken Aldred]

56 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

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My first time in SD was only about 6 or 7 years ago. Even as recently as that I could still find a nice 4 star hotel room for about $180. I stayed at the Westin SD and literally booked it 2 weeks before the show.

Now? Good luck finding a place for under $300 or $400 if there is any availability at all.

 

 

Not bad at all.  I'd thought the gouging had started much earlier than that.

[thehumantorch]

8 hours ago, mysterio said:

How long do we wait for the trickle down? The "movie effect" may be working for individual shops, which is indeed fantastic, but if it were working at shows we'd expect to see comic buying expanding. We don't appear to be seeing that. Those occasional purchases of a dollar book aren't flooding Wizard shows with more comic dealers. 

We're seeing it now.  All those young people I'm seeing are trickle downers, it's cool to read comics.   But it's not enough to offset the migration to digital comics or online auction sites.  

The other problem is that older collectors generally don't like these large modern shows.  Too big, too crowded, not enough comic sellers.  A lot of the guys I see at the small one day shows wouldn't go near a large show.

[mysterio]

17 minutes ago, thehumantorch said:

We're seeing it now.  All those young people I'm seeing are trickle downers, it's cool to read comics.   But it's not enough to offset the migration to digital comics or online auction sites.  

The other problem is that older collectors generally don't like these large modern shows.  Too big, too crowded, not enough comic sellers.  A lot of the guys I see at the small one day shows wouldn't go near a large show.

Older collectors tend to have a level of disposable income not seen with younger buyers, even if they're serious collectors. If dealers don't see those older collectors at the larger shows, which are more expensive to set up at, then they stop setting up. It's the classic chicken/egg conundrum. Without buyers you don't keep sellers coming to the show, and without sellers the buyers aren't attracted to the show. 

[thehumantorch]

1 minute ago, mysterio said:

Older collectors tend to have a level of disposable income not seen with younger buyers, even if they're serious collectors. If dealers don't see those older collectors at the larger shows, which are more expensive to set up at, then they stop setting up. It's the classic chicken/egg conundrum. Without buyers you don't keep sellers coming to the show, and without sellers the buyers aren't attracted to the show. 

Absolutely, there's a lot going on.  Serious collectors can see far more for sale online than any comic show and they don't have to pay admission and fight crowds.  Some collectors are selling out and going digital, tired of the storage issues and the bagging and boarding .    Many new readers are going digital and would laugh at the idea of buying paper comics - look at how thin your newspaper is and all of the magazines that have ceased publishing.  

And of course the cost of multi day shows.   Booths and hotels are expensive and you've gotta eat.  I can't imagine what it would cost to set up at SDCC and that comes straight out of your bottom line.

[Robot Man]

I'm of the older, serious collector group. I go to cons to buy mostly GA comics and socialize with other collectors. I stash away cash for shows and come to spend it. Nothing worse than to show up and see only a few dealers with anything even of marginal interest. My problem is getting in to shows like SDCC and other big shows. Then you figure in over priced hotels, food, parking and battling crowds of people not there for "comics". 

I'm going to make or break a dealer but I suspect there are many other serious buyers like my self in the same position. Enough of us that don't show up makes a huge impact. I enjoy a smaller "comic book" only show like Terry O'Neil's yearly show much more.

I have nothing against cosplayers, autograph hounds or people just coming to hang out but "comic cons" seem to cater more to these people rather than the comic book crowd. Sign of the times I guess...

[FineCollector]

I have to admit, there are always people I want to backhand at a big show, and it's usually not the cosplayers.  The bulk of the cosplayers are kids with no money, they just want to run around and take pictures.  They're in the way, but they're excited, and it's hard to feel too harshly about them.  Kids are stupid, we all know that, so my expectations are low to start with.

The guys who really bug me are the social outcasts who think they're in a friendly place where they can talk at the top of their lungs.  They're not talking to anyone in particular, they have no friends and probably some disappointed parents.  They just blurt out a movie quote or some tidbit about a book they own, and take a quick look around to see if someone wants to be their first friend.  Usually paunchy and unkept, wearing an antihero t-shirt.  They don't spend money either, they just wander around making everyone feel uncomfortable.  God help you if you get stuck behind one in line...

[zosocane]

The thing I hate the most about today's cons in this Movie Age era are the Disney World-like lines to get in.  I don't mind higher hotel costs, higher admission costs, but I'm busy, my time is limited, and now I have to stand in a long line for a half hour or more to get in to spend my money even though I pre-registered??   And 9 out of 10 people standing in that long line won't spend they money I would spend.  That's the part that kills me.

Edited March 27, 2017 by zosocane

[AmazingComics413]

My perspective changes based on whether I am buying or selling.

Me as a buyer: No cosplay, comics only....maybe some action figures or video games.

Me as a seller: As many potential customers as possible.

Edited March 27, 2017 by AmazingComics413
Shredder bought stuff

[jools&jim]

The modern "comic book convention" as mega-multi-media pop culture extravaganza--with its Vegas-level hucksterism & showboating, scads of gobsmacked gawkers, and ascending legions of empowered-geeks-as-kings-of-the-world--is the inevitable result of mainstream "acceptance" and "respectability" for the medium (or, better, its intellectual property byproducts), and the mountains of Hollywood cash behind it all, which first-generation comics fandom (i.e., of the '50s and '60s) both dreamed about and longed for.

So, yeah -- "Be careful what you wish for...", and all that...

 

Edited March 27, 2017 by jools&jim

[Cascaders27]

I won't comment on cosplay, but the Wizard show in Cleveland this year felt less like a comic con than in previous years, and it was a bit disappointing. The crowds seemed good so I'd imagine they'll have another next year, but unless they make an effort to get more than 6-7 comic booths in the building I'll probably skip it. Wizard World Pop-Culture Con would be a much more appropriate name.

[1Cool]

11 minutes ago, Cascaders27 said:

I won't comment on cosplay, but the Wizard show in Cleveland this year felt less like a comic con than in previous years, and it was a bit disappointing. The crowds seemed good so I'd imagine they'll have another next year, but unless they make an effort to get more than 6-7 comic booths in the building I'll probably skip it. Wizard World Pop-Culture Con would be a much more appropriate name.

It will take a drastic drop in booth fees for the comic book dealers to return.  There are so many shop owners that travel all over the place that it's a shame almost none of them signed up for the big local show.  People need to make money and $1,200 is way too much money to be paying to set up and sell $1 books.

[Ken Aldred]

1 hour ago, jools&jim said:

The modern "comic book convention" as mega-multi-media pop culture extravaganza--with its Vegas-level hucksterism & showboating, scads of gobsmacked gawkers, and ascending legions of empowered-geeks-as-kings-of-the-world--is the inevitable result of mainstream "acceptance" and "respectability" for the medium (or, better, its intellectual property byproducts), and the mountains of Hollywood cash behind it all, which first-generation comics fandom (i.e., of the '50s and '60s) both dreamed about and longed for.

So, yeah -- "Be careful what you wish for...", and all that...

 

Yup.  I'm still working through a period of adjustment; trying to deal with the fact that I'm no longer part of a cultish underground, no longer misunderstood, marginalised and ridiculed by the general public or my peer group, longing for the days in the 70s when a secret hand gesture would've been required to gain entry to a British comic mart or Forbidden Planet.

Sadly, it's just not the same anymore.

[lizards2]

3 minutes ago, Ken Aldred said:

Yup.  I'm still working through a period of adjustment; trying to deal with the fact that I'm no longer part of a cultish underground, no longer misunderstood, marginalised and ridiculed by the general public or my peer group, longing for the days in the 70s when a secret hand gesture would've been required to gain entry to a British comic mart or Forbidden Planet.

Sadly, it's just not the same anymore.

[jools&jim]

1 hour ago, Ken Aldred said:

Yup.  I'm still working through a period of adjustment; trying to deal with the fact that I'm no longer part of a cultish underground, no longer misunderstood, marginalised and ridiculed by the general public or my peer group, longing for the days in the 70s when a secret hand gesture would've been required to gain entry to a British comic mart or Forbidden Planet.

Sadly, it's just not the same anymore.

Very cute.  And also true.

Still...we almost always give up something for everything we gain.  Many of the posts in this thread clearly indicate that not everyone in the hobby is thrilled by some of the forms this metamorphosis has taken, even while acknowledging the obvious progress which has been made.

I think I preferred the more insular, "clubhouse" nature of fandom in the '70s (but that's really nothing more than saying that, in general, I preferred childhood to adulthood), and am quite sure that I do NOT enjoy the modern media con at all.  Of course, I'm old, and not the target demographic for any of it, so what do I know?  

I do wonder, though, what will happen when Hollywood loses interest...when the REALLY big money dries up and moves on to the next green pasture to exploit.

What becomes of it all then? 

Do we shrink back to that misunderstood, "cultish underground" marketplace for paper artifacts from a bygone age?  Doubtful, I know.  Or does it all roll along on momentum until a newly born nostalgia for the Golden Age of Superhero Cinema hits and the generational pendulum swings again...?

Edited March 27, 2017 by jools&jim

[NoMan]

1 hour ago, jools&jim said:

Very cute.  And also true.

Still...we almost always give up something for everything we gain.  Many of the posts in this thread clearly indicate that not everyone in the hobby is thrilled by some of the forms this metamorphosis has taken, even while acknowledging the obvious progress which has been made.

I think I preferred the more insular, "clubhouse" nature of fandom in the '70s (but that's really nothing more than saying that, in general, I preferred childhood to adulthood), and am quite sure that I do NOT enjoy the modern media con at all.  Of course, I'm old, and not the target demographic for any of it, so what do I know?  

I do wonder, though, what will happen when Hollywood loses interest...when the REALLY big money dries up and moves on to the next green pasture to exploit.

What becomes of it all then? 

Do we shrink back to that misunderstood, "cultish underground" marketplace for paper artifacts from a bygone age?  Doubtful, I know.  Or does it all roll along on momentum until a newly born nostalgia for the Golden Age of Superhero Cinema hits and the generational pendulum swings again...?

 

When Reality TeeVee became commonplace around the year 2000 or so, I thought this garbage can't last and thought it would fade away in a couple of years. Look at it now. Designated networks for it. People cant get enough of it. I feel the same way with comic book movies/TeeVee: it's not going anywhere. For. The. Rest. Of. Time. 

[1Cool]

14 minutes ago, NoMan said:

 

When Reality TeeVee became commonplace around the year 2000 or so, I thought this garbage can't last and thought it would fade away in a couple of years. Look at it now. Designated networks for it. People cant get enough of it. I feel the same way with comic book movies/TeeVee: it's not going anywhere. For. The. Rest. Of. Time. 

How long did Westerns rule tv/movies?  People will eventually move on to something new but for now I do not see them running out of great stories and keeping the money train going.

[thehumantorch]

1 hour ago, jools&jim said:

Very cute.  And also true.

Still...we almost always give up something for everything we gain.  Many of the posts in this thread clearly indicate that not everyone in the hobby is thrilled by some of the forms this metamorphosis has taken, even while acknowledging the obvious progress which has been made.

I think I preferred the more insular, "clubhouse" nature of fandom in the '70s (but that's really nothing more than saying that, in general, I preferred childhood to adulthood), and am quite sure that I do NOT enjoy the modern media con at all.  Of course, I'm old, and not the target demographic for any of it, so what do I know?  

I do wonder, though, what will happen when Hollywood loses interest...when the REALLY big money dries up and moves on to the next green pasture to exploit.

What becomes of it all then? 

Do we shrink back to that misunderstood, "cultish underground" marketplace for paper artifacts from a bygone age?  Doubtful, I know.  Or does it all roll along on momentum until a newly born nostalgia for the Golden Age of Superhero Cinema hits and the generational pendulum swings again...?

We've yearned for acceptance all these years and now that it's happened we can't stand it

 

[thehumantorch]

19 minutes ago, NoMan said:

 

When Reality TeeVee became commonplace around the year 2000 or so, I thought this garbage can't last and thought it would fade away in a couple of years. Look at it now. Designated networks for it. People cant get enough of it. I feel the same way with comic book movies/TeeVee: it's not going anywhere. For. The. Rest. Of. Time. 

I suspect we're at the peak in Superhero movies now.  Eventually other genres will become vogue and we'll likely see fewer superhero movies but I don't think they'll dry up entirely.  These movies have made tons of money and there are many bankable characters and story arcs to keep the party going.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

On 3/25/2017 at 10:59 AM, mysterio said:

Superheroes have gone mainstream, not the hobby of collecting comics. Attendance is up at baseball games too, but that hasn't turned into a glut of card collectors. 

If the majority of people attending shows, including cosplayers, were there for books then the megashows would be chock full of dealers. The fact that these shows don't typically have many comic dealers reflects the fact that most people attending shows these days aren't there for buying books. They most certainly aren't going to shows to buy books that cost $25 or over. If comic collecting had actually gone mainstream then we might actually see dealer numbers growing instead of shrinking. 

When we thought up the basic parameters for EliteCon, it came from years of talking to dealers (large, medium, and small) about the changing landscape of comic conventions.  The one common thread we found is this: when conventions transition from being one day hotel shows to 3-4 day media events, one of the things immediately sacrificed is the comic book dealer and his place at the show.  Because once it becomes a general admission environment, the complexion of the vendors changes.  In comes the cosplay costume sellers, the anime sellers, the DVD sellers, the t-shirt sellers, the knick-knack peddlers, the local universities promoting their graphic arts or software design programs, etc.  Many old school dealers have told me they've lost their spot at these shows because they refused to pay for their tables 6-9 months in advance, and because the pool of vendors has widened so much, they find themselves on waiting lists 30-50 vendors deep because their competition for the same space is all-to-happy to pay up in advance to secure a booth.  It's become a first-come, first-served business, even if that means a quality comic dealer who has been supporting the show for years is now on the outside looking in.  I can't entirely blame the promoters for this...they have huge costs involved, and securing that vendor table money well ahead of time is necessary to cover other costs (like media guests, etc.), but the result is that what used to be a comic show has a lot fewer comic dealers in it.  Heck, I remember a time when comic dealers paid the promoter for their tables the day of the show, sometime after the show itself was over.  Kiss those days goodbye.

We've been playing around with what we want the show to be next year, and might float some ideas by you guys since many of you are our target audience.

Edited March 27, 2017 by JiveTurkeyMoFo