Are Comic Book conventions really Comic Book conventions? 1 1

[Lazyboy]

18 hours ago, Red84 said:

The vast majority of cosplayers dress up and then shop.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/vast?s=t

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/majority?s=t

Even if they actually do buy something, it's probably not comics.

[VintageComics]

16 hours ago, aardvark88 said:

vintageRoy,

Not sure if the writers to that article have been to SDCC the last 10 years, as they thought SDCC still did a good job promoting comic book vendors, and was not swamped by Hollywood hero movies, tv series, Netflix, cosplay, online gaming, Pop Toys, Star Wars/Star Trek/Dr Who props.

Seems like most cities in the USA and Canada have their own 30 to 140 table comic-centric shows to differentiate from the Wizard Worlds and large Expos where 10' x 10' booths may  start at $1,100 US each.

It's interesting to note that Joe Public still has the perception that SD is a true comic show.

Most people don't have the time or resources to experience SD so I'm guessing that the SD rep is riding on the coat tails of it's old reputation.

That will eventually change, which is really the point of the article.

[VintageComics]

15 hours ago, Robot Man said:

15 hours ago, oakman29 said:

You weren't referring to SDCC, but I was.

Problem is there are very little vintage comics for sale there.

That is most likely due to the lack of promotion and business leadership.

When I was on the West coast during that show I asked for an exhibitor list for the show. They didn't have one ready until 5 days before the show.

It's probably run by an old school fan.

Edited March 18, 2017 by VintageComics

[VintageComics]

14 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

Even if they actually do buy something, it's probably not comics.

As I said earlier in the thread and also in the FB discussion. they most certainly buy things.

But just going from my own con experiences over a decade, I have little doubt they buy the type of things that were at the Elite Con show. And that's not a diss. That's just an assessment from a marketing and business perceptive. They are not the target market.

I do find it most interesting that there is a trend of old school comic book shows starting up. As I said, the pendulum is starting to swing in the opposite direction.

[Jeffro.]

18 hours ago, Red84 said:

18 hours ago, VintageComics said:

You're really tilting at a windmill here and exaggerating  your point about what is really a recent cultural phenomenon.

As George said, there were several professional cosplayersin the discussion who totally got the point and didn't protest it.

The majority of protest came from people who likely would not have enjoyed the event anyway unless they were having their pictures taken.

Professional cosplayers wouldn't be going to a small comics only convention anyway.

Well, then win win for all

[wombat]

Haven't read the whole thread, but I'm lucky enough to have multiple "hotel" cons by mean a year. Probably around 90% comic vendors with some toys and other carp sprinkled in. They usually have a $4 entrance fee. I love them. 

 

The only big cons I go to are WW Philly and Baltimore. Although I'm probably done with Philly as I don't need any funko pops, t shirts or windows. It was horrible last year. 

[Mercury Man]

On 3/17/2017 at 4:03 PM, Broke as a Joke said:

I don't understand what the cosplay end game is.  Comic collectors buy comics.  Card collectors buy cards.  Toy collectors buy toys.   Do cosplayers buy anything?  

They get their ego's stroked.  

Seems like the circus atmosphere that the Convention's have turned into is getting on the nerves of people who just want to buy some comics and meet some comic book artists/writers. 

I did have a problem with Elite Con's admission price.   $25 for a hotel show with no artist...meh.

Edited March 18, 2017 by Mercury Man

[aardvark88]

1 hour ago, Mercury Man said:

 

I did have a problem with Elite Con's admission price.   $25 for a hotel show with no artist...meh.

Think Elite Con had an option for mini-vendor to pay $50 to get in early and bring 2 mag or Cgc-sized boxes of inventory to sell or trade from a portion of a table.

[VintageComics]

3 hours ago, Mercury Man said:

Seems like the circus atmosphere that the Convention's have turned into is getting on the nerves of people who just want to buy some comics and meet some comic book artists/writers.

Annoyance is a small part of it.

Yes, it can be annoying when you have 100's of people posing in front of your booth all weekend where you paid great expense to sell your wares to pay for the trip.

From listening to old school dealers who used to set up at shows like SD for decades before it was a popular media event, it's more of a business reason.

It used to be that anyone who wanted to head to the Superbowl of comic book shows could just book a flight, book a hotel, buy tickets and attend. Easy peasy, lots of customers in the door.

Now that the show has become a world famous event, most hotels are locked by SDCC until all their guests and exhibitors get rooms, and then there is a frenzy to book remaining rooms at insane rates (as much as $600-800 a night at the Marriott next door IIRC).

And tickets sell out in minutes world wide.

And so what happens is that the majority of people who are there for the vintage material that the con was originally built around can no longer get in because the majority of people don't collect. They're there as spectators or to buy non-Vintage stuff.

That might sound judgemental but it's true. There's a saying that some people have used in SD. If you want to avoid the crowd just head into the Silver and Gold pavilion because those aisles aren't as crowded most days.

And so dealers have actually given up and given up their booths in SD because once the expense and time of setting up across the country (I'd average it at about $6000 per 10 x 10 booth including airfare and hotels for two people) they can't even get their customers in the door to buy their product. It's all the talk on the SD floor every year.

New York has become similar. I've heard of some customers who are now defaulting to NYC instead of SD because it was easier to get in but NYCC has outgrown the Javits too.

So it's this 'pressure' that has caused promoters to put together either comic only or vintage only shows in an effort to make it a vintage experience for those who ONLY want just that.

And there are many, I'd venture to say 1000's, of people who are looking for just such a thing.

Edited March 19, 2017 by VintageComics

[Jeffro.]

2 hours ago, Mercury Man said:

On 3/17/2017 at 4:03 PM, Broke as a Joke said:

I don't understand what the cosplay end game is.  Comic collectors buy comics.  Card collectors buy cards.  Toy collectors buy toys.   Do cosplayers buy anything?  

They get their ego's stroked.  

Seems like the circus atmosphere that the Convention's have turned into is getting on the nerves of people who just want to buy some comics and meet some comic book artists/writers. 

I did have a problem with Elite Con's admission price.   $25 for a hotel show with no artist...meh.

There has been quite a bit of anecdotal evidence from comic sellers on these boards who have reported cosplayers blocking isles at shows and not really buying anything. I tend to believe in some of that. To be fair, some of them must buy something but I have a real hard time believing that the female cosplayers in particular are going to shows to buy bunches of silver and bronze age comics. 

[Lazyboy]

5 minutes ago, Likefro said:

There has been quite a bit of anecdotal evidence from comic sellers on these boards who have reported cosplayers blocking isles at shows and not really buying anything. I tend to believe in some of that. To be fair, some of them must buy something but I have a real hard time believing that the female cosplayers in particular are going to shows to buy bunches of silver and bronze age comics. 

I don't know what the age of the comics people are buying has to do with anything, but you don't need to be behind a table to notice people in costumes standing around and getting in the way everywhere or the lack of costumes on the vast majority of people digging through boxes.

[1950's war comics]

I am finally going to wise up the next time i go to the motor city comic-con ...

i always went on friday, took the day off and got in line at about 10:30 for the noon opening, still there are about 300 people in front of me and i don't actually get in until 12:45 or so. but i learned that when i leave about 4:30 there is nobody in line so this year i am going to get there at 4:30  probably get a parking spot half mile walk away but beats waiting in line .... $30.00 cover is pretty steep, inflation i guess, i don't pay much attention to cos players,... i don't even know who half of them are trying to be.

[cheta42]

I want to a Con today, I wont mention which one.....but I live in Toronto

Anyways,

I go because I am a comic collector, and that is what I want to see.

These are the negatives for me who goes with his wife and kids and am a comic collector,

Shows being mismanaged  and make it too complicated to pay and get in with a family.

They asked us to fill in a form to buy tickets, I told them to   I just want to get in, not write an essay.

Over zealous and loud and obnoxious staff and security who are very abrasive when they shouldn't be, and very lackadaisical when they should be,  i.e pushing and yelling at families with young kids to get back in line,  letting people who are in wheel chairs to be pushed aside as other people bud in line, not letting families with young children and persons with wheel chairs easier access to enter the event, letting cosplayers use the family washroom to change and put on make-up for 30 minutes while we waited with young kids to use a secured washroom. If you are going to go to the show dressed up , do it at your parents home in the basement before leaving for the show, once again I am not casting judgement

I just want to see the books and not waste time being blocked in aisles by people who have never had sex,  a steady job, friends, or ever won a trophy for athletics, once again I am not judging, Just observing

Now , having said that, I do have 2 young daughters who love to see the dressed up people and toys etc.

Myself, not a fan , but the other stuff helps distract my little kids so I can get out for an hour or so and check cool books like this that Walter from Big B had ...

 

 

[Mercury Man]

The fact is, the big one's are now Pop-Culture Con's.  The comic print medium has just become a smaller percentage of it, even though it is 100% of the reason the 'Insert Con Name Here' exist.   SDCC, MEGA, WIZARD etc. 

So as a comic buyer, who doesn't play dress up, if I am expected to pay $35-$40 for one day admission, I WANT to see a lot of comic book dealers.   If the dealers get fed up and don't buy tables, and I pay and don't see the tables, then I get to drop out as well.   The big Con's are starting to resemble flea markets with trinkets and trash tables.  Perhaps Elite Con is on the right track, but who knows. 

Interesting times these are.  

[thehumantorch]

On 3/17/2017 at 4:06 PM, Red84 said:

Telling people they can't dress up makes literally zero sense.  There are plenty of people who dress up and then buy books/toys/collectibles.  What was the purpose of antagonizing an enthusiastic group of people?  Does people being dressed up as their favorite characters lessen the efficacy of money?  That restriction was just plain stupid.  Not surprised that it resulted in such a reaction.

I respect the organizer's right to create the show he wants but I agree, don't see any point to limiting cosplay.  A small, comic dedicated show won't draw more than a few if any cosplayers.  We set up at 6 to 8 smaller Comic/Pop culture shows and there's rarely any cosplayers.  Banning them seems more like a good way to get people talking and get attention than provide any practical benefit.  

[wombat]

28 minutes ago, cheta42 said:

I want to a Con today, I wont mention which one.....but I live in Toronto

Anyways,

I go because I am a comic collector, and that is what I want to see.

These are the negatives for me who goes with his wife and kids and am a comic collector,

Shows being mismanaged  and make it too complicated to pay and get in with a family.

They asked us to fill in a form to buy tickets, I told them to   I just want to get in, not write an essay.

Over zealous and loud and obnoxious staff and security who are very abrasive when they shouldn't be, and very lackadaisical when they should be,  i.e pushing and yelling at families with young kids to get back in line,  letting people who are in wheel chairs to be pushed aside as other people bud in line, not letting families with young children and persons with wheel chairs easier access to enter the event, letting cosplayers use the family washroom to change and put on make-up for 30 minutes while we waited with young kids to use a secured washroom. If you are going to go to the show dressed up , do it at your parents home in the basement before leaving for the show, once again I am not casting judgement

I just want to see the books and not waste time being blocked in aisles by people who have never had sex,  a steady job, friends, or ever won a trophy for athletics, once again I am not judging, Just observing

Now , having said that, I do have 2 young daughters who love to see the dressed up people and toys etc.

Myself, not a fan , but the other stuff helps distract my little kids so I can get out for an hour or so and check cool books like this that Walter from Big B had ...

 

 

 

 

Please don't take this as any kind of personal attack, but people pushing kids in strollers and kids generally milling about in my way are way more annoying to me than the cosplayers. We all have our pet peeves. That's why I'm good with whoever wants to show up. 

[cheta42]

6 minutes ago, wombat said:

Please don't take this as any kind of personal attack, but people pushing kids in strollers and kids generally milling about in my way are way more annoying to me than the cosplayers. We all have our pet peeves. That's why I'm good with whoever wants to show up. 

 

6 minutes ago, wombat said:

Please don't take this as any kind of personal attack, but people pushing kids in strollers and kids generally milling about in my way are way more annoying to me than the cosplayers. We all have our pet peeves. That's why I'm good with whoever wants to show up. 

 

6 minutes ago, wombat said:

Please don't take this as any kind of personal attack, but people pushing kids in strollers and kids generally milling about in my way are way more annoying to me than the cosplayers. We all have our pet peeves. That's why I'm good with whoever wants to show up. 

No strollers bro, they are marching like their old man, no time to waste....and no offense taken

Edited March 19, 2017 by cheta42

[Bird]

On 3/17/2017 at 9:08 PM, VintageComics said:

The drama was created by the 'everyone gets a trophy attitude' that some people had. They responded with nasty names, insults, sarcasm and threats. It was ludicrous.

Not everyone gets a trophy. Not everyone is always welcome everywhere. There's nothing wrong with that.

 

I agree that the drama was ridiculous and the very definition of entitlement.

I also think that banning cosplay is ridiculous. Equating cosplay with intent to spend is silly. Why not ban anyone making under $50K/year? You could have just banned the under 30 crowd. If you want to limit the size of costumes that is fine. But makeup or clever choice of clothes for costuming should not be banned ever in my opinion. How else can we teach the next generation without bringing them to the shows? And the younger ones like to dress the part.

If the room is so small the cosplayers would have circled the room and then left if they had no intention of spending. Banning the posing of photos would be more effective.

[Bird]

12 hours ago, aardvark88 said:

Think Elite Con had an option for mini-vendor to pay $50 to get in early and bring 2 mag or Cgc-sized boxes of inventory to sell or trade from a portion of a table.

This was the odder policy to me than the cosplay. Did the silver let you bring one box of stuff? I like the trading area idea but it works against the logic of the cosplay ban...it promotes people gathering, at a higher ticket rate when the goal is not to pack the room or sell the most tickets apparently, with no intention of buying from the vendors. It promotes attendance and provides a gathering space for people to interact and spend their money in the room but not with the vendors.

Wow, this is more discussion than I typically provide anymore. Not hating on Elite Con, I am glad a new show is starting up successfully and they have every right to do what they want. I think a low key approach may have worked better, less direct. Comic Art Con started not much larger than my living room but never had cosplay issues and never needed to state a ban or anything; Terry's show (whatever that is) as well apparently.

[Mercury Man]

So the questions:  

Are we seeing less Comic vendors at Cons?  

Are we seeing less comic vendors due to the venues getting bigger, their tables getting more expensive and their bottom line suffers, so they are less apt to set up at these shows?  

And do we attribute bigger venues to the Hollywood and Cosplayer attendees, forcing a need for more space?

Or is the above just nonsense, vendors are still showing up, it just seems like less because of the venue size? (I don't think this is it imho)