Fox Comics vs DC Comics print runs - lookin for answers 0

[atomised]

Fox Comics vs DC Comics print runs - lookin for answers

Not sure if this has been reviewed prior, so apologies if this is old hat.  I'm curious about this topic in terms of books available as both a collector and an investor, particularly the era of the late 30's through the 1940's - in terms of what is available today (and maybe also what was originally printed).  I could turn to the census report to get some data but I also imagine that the more popular and valuable DC superhero books are more likely to be slabbed, then say your garden variety Blue Beetle book.  Is there any data available or views on how far apart the print runs and/or availability of these two publishers GA book are?

I do have a horse in this race as a collector of BB. Thanks

[Robot Man]

4 minutes ago, atomised said:

Fox Comics vs DC Comics print runs - lookin for answers

Not sure if this has been reviewed prior, so apologies if this is old hat.  I'm curious about this topic in terms of books available as both a collector and an investor, particularly the era of the late 30's through the 1940's - in terms of what is available today (and maybe also what was originally printed).  I could turn to the census report to get some data but I also imagine that the more popular and valuable DC superhero books are more likely to be slabbed, then say your garden variety Blue Beetle book.  Is there any data available or views on how far apart the print runs and/or availability of these two publishers GA book are?

I do have a horse in this race as a collector of BB. Thanks

I would guess (and this is just my opinion) that there were a lot more DC books printed than Fox. This is based upon the fact that you see a lot more DCs out in the world than Fox books. Of the countless old comic rack photos I've seen, there are usually WAY more DC and Fiction House on the racks than Fox. I assume their distribution was much better than Fox, therefore, more were printed.

[lou_fine]

40 minutes ago, atomised said:

I'm curious about this topic in terms of books available as both a collector and an investor, particularly the era of the late 30's through the 1940's - in terms of what is available today

Not sure about any actual data, but if you have been looking at the auction offerings over the past years, it is quite apparent that the DC super hero books are readily available in most condition grades across the board.

Especially in comparison to the dearth of early Fox books in these same auctions, as there is usually no more than a handful of them scattered here and there between the various titles in any one auction.  And especially if you are talking about trying to find them in grade, and these usually show up in the form of a high dollar pedigree copy only.

I guess this upcoming CC auction and then the Berk Auction after that will really be the 2 largest amounts of Fox books to hit the open market in over 2 decades now.  Can't wait to see the action as some of these books have not shown up anywhere in say almost forever. 

Edited March 30, 2017 by lou_fine

[jpepx78]

This circulation question has arisen before about Fox books. Below is an excerpt of the Fox and DC sections from a very long post containing lots of information.

There is some data for comics circulation in the 1930s and 1940s from the Audit Bureau of Circulation (ABC). Russ Maheras and Robert Beerbohm posted available comic circulation data from ABC for many publishers from the late 1930s to 1940s. The data was obtained from visits to the ABC branch in Schaumburg Illinois and from comic publishing newsletters.

http://www.hoboes.com/pub/Comics/About Comics/Business/Top Comics and Publishers/Comic Book Circulation Data/

Since the circulation numbers are for sales of groups of comics and different titles were printed monthly, bimonthly and quarterly, you will need to do some some work to figure out which titles were out for a particular month and estimate sales for individual titles for that month. It would be correct to assume that sales were higher for more popular titles but it would be difficult to assume but it is possible that the number of surviving copies would be higher for these popular titles.

The circulation for DC books is higher if you compare the circulation of Fox versus DC for the same time period for 1939 to 1940.

Excerpt from Fox & DC sections:

Fox Comics Group.  Consists of the following three titles: Fantastic Comics, Mystery Comics, and Wonderworld Comics.

Jul 1939 -   227,533
Aug 1939 - 418,597
Sep 1939 - 628,529
Oct 1939 -  683,698
Nov 1939 - 657,364
Dec 1939 - 890,701

Fox Comics Group:  During the reporting period, the Fox group
consisted of the following 11 titles - Fantastic Comics, Mystery Men
Comics, Wonderworld Comics, Science Comics, Weird Comics, The Blue
Beetle, The Flame, The Green Mask, Samson, Rex Dexter, and Big 3.  

Jan 1940 -   990,171
Feb 1940 - 1,372,230
Mar 1940 - 1,123,279
Apr 1940 -  1,136,476
May 1940 -  1,412,872
Jun 1940 -    862,878
Jul 1940 -    1,164,251
Aug 1940 -   965,441
Sep 1940 -  1,121,828
Oct 1940 -    959,991
Nov 1940 -  1,008,529
Dec 1940 -  1,077,887

Detective Comics Group, consisting of Action, Adventure, Detective and More Fun Comics

Jul 38       494,136    
Aug 38    596,480    
Sep 38     639,027    
Oct  38    647,599    
Nov 38    604,671    
Dec 38     667,166

   
Jan 39      709,879    
Feb 39     751,549    
Mar 39     795,029    
Apr 39      830,163    
May 39     895,866    
Jun 39      955,203    
Jul 39      1,081,564    
Aug 39    1,299,364    
Sep 39    1,393,010    
Oct 39     1,432,218    
Nov 39    1,406,917    
Dec 39    1,465,712    

Jan 40     1,585,654    
Feb 40    1,828,124    
Mar 40    1,823,896    
Apr 40      1,810,849    
May 40    1,808,054    
Jun 40     1,594,200    
Jul 40       1,627,640    
Aug 40    1,861,608    
Sep 40    1,900,028    
Oct 40      1,898,962    
Nov 40    1,880,820    
Dec 40    1,755,773
    
Jan 41     1,928,672    
Feb 41     2,068,866    
Mar 41    1,749,874    
Apr 41      1,728,487    
May 41    1,685,821    
Jun 41      1,318,985    
Jul 41        1,332,540    
Aug 41    1,403,395    
Sep 41     1,549,118    
Oct 41      1,381,544    
Nov 41    1,181,324    
Dec 41    1,233,261    

Note:  Beginning with January 1942, Star Spangled Comics has been added to
the Detective Comics group's circulation totals, making a total of five
titles in the group.

Jan 42     1,363,886    
Feb 42    1,364,307    
Mar 42    1,509,812    
Apr 42      1,360,771    
May 42    1,347,487    
Jun 42     1,338,917    
Jul 42       1,462,750    
Aug 42    1,505,136    
Sep 42    1,839,439    
Oct 42      1,966,019    
Nov 42     2,013,468    
Dec 42     1,847,213    

Note:  Beginning with January 1943, Detective Comics Group was redesignated National Comics Group, incorporating 11 titles from four "different" companies.  Detective Comics, Inc., included Action, Adventure, Batman, Detective, More Fun, and Star-Spangled Comics;  JoLaine Publications, Inc., published Green Lantern Comics;  J.R. Publishing Co., included All-American, Flash, and Sensation Comics; and Superman, Inc., published Superman Comics.
This clumping of titles makes it more difficult to guesstimate individual title circulations.

Jan 43     4,772,559    
Feb 43    5,170,229    
Mar 43    4,780,450    
Apr 43     4,134,302    
May 43    4,191,653    
Jun 43      3,898,392    

Note:  Data from Jul 43 through Jun 44 not transcribed. Circulation data below is still based on the 11 National Comics Group titles listed earlier.

Jul 44       4,738,317    
Aug 44    4,945,727    
Sep 44     5,269,861    
Oct 44      5,362,669    
Nov 44    5,328,510    
Dec 44    5,019,734
    
Jan 45     5,144,925    
Feb 45    5,401,673    
Mar 45    5,317,467    
Apr 45      4,925,711    
May 45    4,540,463    
Jun 45     4,518,967    

Note:  Data from Jul 45 through Jun 49 not transcribed. Circulation data below is for National Comics' Blue Unit, which consists of the following 19 titles: Action, Star Spangled, Sensation, All American Western, Batman, Date With Judy, Leave it to Binky, Funny Folks, Real Screen, Superboy, Mr. District Attorney, Wonder Woman, World's Finest, Buzzy, Animal Antics, Alan Ladd, Jimmy Wakely, Peter Porkchops, and Miss Melody Lane.

Jul 49       3,372,786    
Aug 49    4,065,464    
Sep 49     4,421,716    
Oct 49      4,091,799    
Nov 49    4,181,928    
Dec 49    3,917,153
    
Jan 50     3,854,656    
Feb 50    4,334,984    
Mar 50    3,913,729    
Apr 50     4,010,162    
May 50    3,448,955    
Jun 50     3,729,116    

Note: Circulation data below is for National Comics' Red Unit, which consists of the following 20 titles:  Detective, Adventure, Funny Stuff,
Mutt & Jeff, Gangbusters, All Star, Comic Cavalcade, Leading, Scribbly, Ozzie & Harriet, Superman, Dale Evans, Miss Beverly Hills, Romance Trail,
Western, Boy Commandos, Real Facts, Bob Hope, Peter Porkchops (Transferred from Blue Group Jan/Feb 50), and Feature Films.

Jul 49       3,758,229    
Aug 49    3,546,216    
Sep 49     4,521,347    
Oct 49      3,899,713    
Nov 49     3,696,278    
Dec 49     3,556,656
    
Jan 50     3,585,858    
Feb 50    4,225,909    
Mar 50    4,004,854    
Apr 50     3,943,393    
May 50    3,379,022    
Jun 50     3,589,073    

 

 

[lou_fine]

Interesting to note that although the circulation for the Fox books appears to be running at about 25% of the DC's on a per issue basis, their availability in the current vintage collectible marketplace appears to be substantially less than that. 

I guess it's possible that the above circulation might not be reflective of the actual copies sold, as DC would most likely have a much higher sell through rate due to the higher popularity of their comic book characters at the time.  

[HouseofComics.Com]

How about DCs being more likely to be saved as well?  And maybe less purposefully destroyed in the 50s.

[atomised]

very interesting data @jpepx78- thanks

From the accounts I've read about Victor S. Fox, there are so many wild tales it's hard to determine what is myth or fact.  It seems likely the printing standards were sub-standard at Fox and certainly could follow that the books simply also haven't survived the years as well, or at all.  

 

Edited March 31, 2017 by atomised