Marvel's Falling Sales 6 6

[Jeffro.]

11 hours ago, thehumantorch said:

Sorry, no idea how I triplicated my post.

6 times!

And each one got a like 

[Doktor]

13 minutes ago, NP_Gresham said:

Constant complaining by publishers to congress and getting longer copyrights is killing the industry.

They need lots of stiff competition. Place all these 50 y/o characters into the public domain and it will bring out the best of the best.

DC and Marvel will FORCED to innovate and create new characters while the old characters will be turned over to newer publishers who will compete with better artists and storylines.

 

This is a very good point. I'm still a little torn on this issue. Especially as a completest and someone that loves long-form storytelling (I was a Claremont X-Men guy growing up). Deciding if I want to read IDW's Spider-Man and Marvel's Spider-Man and DC's Spider-Man or whatever & then hope to maintain something even approaching continuity that isn't just headcanon is the biggest foreseeable downside. IDW or DC might write a better Spider-Man series than Marvel for a time, then Dark Horse and then Jim-Bob's Meth-Lab Publisher (I made that one up) might do a better series for a while. And I'd like to maintain some degree of continuity over time, but I know that's something that I'd totally lose if copyright protection expired.

[ComicConnoisseur]

I think what Marvel needs is new blood. New writers and new artists.

Bendis was cutting edge in 1999,but that was 1999 almost 20 years ago.  What worked in 1999 really doesn't work today.

Bendis seems to be in that rut of regurgitating his stories. It happens with all great comic book writers, as they run out of ideas after 20 years.

They need to find the Bendis and Brubaker for this generation.

Same with the artists. They need to go on a talent search for the next Kirby and Adams.

When they find them, then pay them big money to stay.

Superheroes are billion dollar business now,so no need to nickle and dime top artists and writers.

So that is what they need new modern unknown talented creators who are hungry, and not the same old tired ones who seem to be just recycling ideas for a paycheck,

 

[StingerMcK]

39 minutes ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

Bendis was cutting edge in 1999,but that was 1999 almost 20 years ago.  What worked in 1999 really doesn't work today.

Bendis seems to be in that rut of regurgitating his stories. It happens with all great comic book writers, as they run out of ideas after 20 years.

They need to find the Bendis and Brubaker for this generation.

They had Tom King and then lost him to DC.  And now he is writing the best Batman ive seen in years.

[1Cool]

39 minutes ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

I think what Marvel needs is new blood. New writers and new artists.

Bendis was cutting edge in 1999,but that was 1999 almost 20 years ago.  What worked in 1999 really doesn't work today.

Bendis seems to be in that rut of regurgitating his stories. It happens with all great comic book writers, as they run out of ideas after 20 years.

They need to find the Bendis and Brubaker for this generation.

Same with the artists. They need to go on a talent search for the next Kirby and Adams.

When they find them, then pay them big money to stay.

Superheroes are billion dollar business now,so no need to nickle and dime top artists and writers.

So that is what they need new modern unknown talented creators who are hungry, and not the same old tired ones who seem to be just recycling ideas for a paycheck,

 

I think you hit the nail on the head - superheroes are a billion dollar industry so why work for Marvel making a decent wage but they retain all the rights for your ideas.  Great artists and developers are going the independent route so they retain rights if a movie or show is developed.  And for some reason Marvel seems to be strong arm killing off their best characters that they have locked in (at least in the comics medium).  At least we have all these snazzy variant covers to keep us preoccupied.

[AnthonyTheAbyss]

They article heading is misleading.  They're not blaming diversity.  They're blaming the lack of acceptance of diversity.

 

Anywho...they also got that wrong.  It's not the lack of acceptance of diversity that we don't like.  It's the killing/replacing of great characters with a new (race/gender).  That's lazy and uncreative.  Try creating a brand new character that's (race/gender) from scratch with a cool story to tell.

[Silver Surfer]

Didnt I see an announcement  that they just rolled out a Latino superhero,  give me a break. 

[aqn83]

12 minutes ago, AnthonyTheAbyss said:

They article heading is misleading.  They're not blaming diversity.  They're blaming the lack of acceptance of diversity.

 

Anywho...they also got that wrong.  It's not the lack of acceptance of diversity that we don't like.  It's the killing/replacing of great characters with a new (race/gender).  That's lazy and uncreative.  Try creating a brand new character that's (race/gender) from scratch with a cool story to tell.

I agree. However, they were probably hoping to follow on the tailcoats of already popular heroes like they did with Ms. Marvel.

[Patriot6]

Is Riverdale (TV show) any different? Look at how they butchered those characters! 

[Jeffro.]

9 minutes ago, Silver Surfer said:

Didnt I see an announcement  that they just rolled out a Latino superhero,  give me a break. 

There's really nothing wrong with that. Marvel and DC have created superheroes for decades that are not white males. I think what pisses people off is when you take an established character and change their ethnicity or gender to something completely different than it has been for decades. Stuff like making Nick Fury black for example. Can you imagine the outcry if they changed the ethnicity of T'Challa or Luke Cage?  

[lizards2]

13 minutes ago, Likefro said:

27 minutes ago, Silver Surfer said:

Didnt I see an announcement  that they just rolled out a Latino superhero,  give me a break. 

There's really nothing wrong with that. Marvel and DC have created superheroes for decades that are not white males. I think what pisses people off is when you take an established character and change their ethnicity or gender to something completely different than it has been for decades. Stuff like making Nick Fury black for example. Can you imagine the outcry if they changed the ethnicity of T'Challa or Luke Cage?  

Luke Cracker, Zero for Hire!  I like it! 

[lizards2]

Just now, lizards2 said:

14 minutes ago, Likefro said:

29 minutes ago, Silver Surfer said:

Didnt I see an announcement  that they just rolled out a Latino superhero,  give me a break. 

There's really nothing wrong with that. Marvel and DC have created superheroes for decades that are not white males. I think what pisses people off is when you take an established character and change their ethnicity or gender to something completely different than it has been for decades. Stuff like making Nick Fury black for example. Can you imagine the outcry if they changed the ethnicity of T'Challa or Luke Cage?  

Luke Cracker, Zero for Hire!  I like it! 

and T'Chip, the Pale Panther! 

[stock_rotation]

1 hour ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

When they find them, then pay them big money to stay.

Superheroes are billion dollar business now,so no need to nickle and dime top artists and writers.

So that is what they need new modern unknown talented creators who are hungry, and not the same old tired ones who seem to be just recycling ideas for a paycheck,

How ya gonna keep 'em down on the farm
After they've seen Paree'?

[HarrisonJohn]

21 minutes ago, Likefro said:

There's really nothing wrong with that. Marvel and DC have created superheroes for decades that are not white males. I think what pisses people off is when you take an established character and change their ethnicity or gender to something completely different than it has been for decades. Stuff like making Nick Fury black for example. Can you imagine the outcry if they changed the ethnicity of T'Challa or Luke Cage?  

The thing is, who is going to say "wow xxx is black/ female etc now just like me!" It's so lazy that it's insulting. It alienates readers new and old.

I don't know the exact story but I see She-Hulk is the star of the Hulk book. Shouldn't it be called She-Hulk? But She-Hulk doesn't sell, I guess, so here we will force her on you with the title Hulk.

I see there's a Jean Grey book (one of my favorite characters) but I see that she's a teenager now and I assume the book will cater to that and so I have no interest. When I was a teen I was reading these characters as adults.

[Doktor]

17 minutes ago, HarrisonJohn said:

The thing is, who is going to say "wow xxx is black/ female etc now just like me!" It's so lazy that it's insulting. It alienates readers new and old.

I don't know the exact story but I see She-Hulk is the star of the Hulk book. Shouldn't it be called She-Hulk? But She-Hulk doesn't sell, I guess, so here we will force her on you with the title Hulk.

I see there's a Jean Grey book (one of my favorite characters) but I see that she's a teenager now and I assume the book will cater to that and so I have no interest. When I was a teen I was reading these characters as adults.

Then here's the new Iceman series that literally only exists because he's gay now. I have no interest in buying it because I thought that change was dumb & pointless & a whole series about that change is dumber & pointless-er. But I bought the out of both the Midnighter series & the Midnighter & Apollo series. (And I bought every Authority & solo Midnighter title before this too) But Marvel is starting to get like Hollywood where they can't see the difference because it's too hard to explain.

All they see is "well, they're gay, so you should like this character now because we made them gay too" and don't get that one was organic & essential to the character & has been there since the beginning & the character is interesting regardless of their sexuality, while the other is "look, it hits that checkbox now too! So you should like this!"

Edited April 4, 2017 by Doktor

[AndyFish]

Great point-- as a kid I used to love Black Panther-- it didn't matter to me that he was black and I wasn't-- I liked the character Kirby was doing.  I didn't need to read only white characters to feel like I could connect to it.  Idiotic.  I also loved the reprints of Golden Age Batman but I didn't gravitate towards it because Robin was a white kid my age-- in fact because of the TV show re-runs I didn't like Robin at all.  Are kids today so mind numb that unless a comic book character is exactly like them they can't see past it? And by kids I mean READERS of all ages.

Edited April 4, 2017 by AndyFish

[lizards2]

4 minutes ago, AndyFish said:

Great point-- as a kid I used to love Black Panther-- it didn't matter to me that he was black and I wasn't-- I liked the character Kirby was doing.  I didn't need to read only white characters to feel like I could connect to it.  Idiotic.  I also loved the reprints of Golden Age Batman but I didn't gravitate towards it because Robin was a white kid my age-- in fact because of the TV show re-runs I didn't like Robin at all.  Are kids today so mind numb that unless a comic book character is exactly like them they can't see past it? And by kids I mean READERS of all ages.

It's not about the customers or readers, it's about the retards in management.

[AndyFish]

I'm afraid you might be right.

[kav]

Marvel: gay characters can be interesting.  Female characters can be interesting.  A black female captain america can be interesting.  The problem is, the stories you are writing....are not interesting.  The plots are weak.  Dialogue is forced, stilted.  People act the way people do not actually behave.   You hammer your audience with moral 'lessons' all the time.   It's like a bad play written by high school students.  Get it?

[AndyFish]

The comparison, I think in this very thread, to the 70s drug issues is spot on.  Speedy gets addicted, drugs are bad, we got it, DC didn't spend two years beating us over the head with it.  Comics should be escapist fun.  When you shoe-horn politics into it and social justice you turn off 50% of your readers either way.