eBay: Bronze Age Marvel and DC pages for sale! 1 1

[Bird]

16 minutes ago, Meeley Man said:

How did you know talking to Moy was 'useless?" Because you had tried in the past and that was the outcome? So, do you now "broad brush" all dealers, of any stripe, as "impossible to discuss prices with?"
 

Because if you pay attention you learn, and I learned (right or wrong) that Albert does not haggle. Stone cold negotiator, immaculate, but honest in my opinion. And no I don't think all dealers are impossible to discuss prices with and never said that, despite you putting it in quotes. I would have no qualms talking price with Kwan, Eder, Bechara, or Anthony. I used to talk pricing with Mike Burkey all the time when I dealt with him. I established relationships with those dealers and have some degree of faith in them. 

It is not a question of right or wrong...it is a question of success. Two people can have opposing viewpoints and both be valid.

 

 

[malvin]

There are many points to be made, but I'll answer one specific point you cited. It is not an old boys club, I can think of one or two reps that started after you Thst are doing fine.  Felix comes to mind, and I think Jason started after you too. They seem to be able to make a go at it. Have you sat back and observed what they so differently compared to you? 

Malvin

[Meeley Man]

3 minutes ago, Bird said:

Because if you pay attention you learn, and I learned (right or wrong) that Albert does not haggle. Stone cold negotiator, immaculate, but honest in my opinion. And no I don't think all dealers are impossible to discuss prices with and never said that, despite you putting it in quotes. I would have no qualms talking price with Kwan, Eder, Bechara, or Anthony. I used to talk pricing with Mike Burkey all the time when I dealt with him. I established relationships with those dealers and have some degree of faith in them. 

It is not a question of right or wrong...it is a question of success. Two people can have opposing viewpoints and both be valid.

 

 

But you missed my point. You admit you discuss prices with those other because of the relationship you have with them. But you couldn't have had that from the very start, could you? You had to engage them, before that relationship was built. Only after doing that and with time, does that relationship now exist. The faith now exists, because you were open to discussion, before you had that "connection."

So, at first, you had to "take a chance," didn't you? You had to engage and see what would happen. You had no idea what you'd get. You gave them all that consideration. But it seems one none of you will extend to me. Hell, have you even asked around, or talked with someone who has worked with me? I somehow doubt it. So, it all comes back to what I've been saying: How do you work out a price, or start to build that relationship, when one side refuses to engage? My door on this has always been open. But I can't make you walk through it.

[Meeley Man]

7 minutes ago, malvin said:

There are many points to be made, but I'll answer one specific point you cited. It is not an old boys club, I can think of one or two reps that started after you Thst are doing fine.  Felix comes to mind, and I think Jason started after you too. They seem to be able to make a go at it. Have you sat back and observed what they so differently compared to you? 

Malvin

Felix has been involved in this stuff for many, many years, before he started repping. He's a "known quantity" to many in this hobby. That's an edge I can't copy or replicate. As for Jason, I know much less on him.

But I will say, that out of everything that has been said to me on this, this is the one thing I actually do find has some value. Perhaps an email to Jason might be in order. Provided he won't be cagey in talking about this with me, fearing I'll steal his "secret blend of 7 herbs and spices."

[Bird]

20 minutes ago, Meeley Man said:

But you missed my point. You admit you discuss prices with those other because of the relationship you have with them. But you couldn't have had that from the very start, could you? You had to engage them, before that relationship was built. Only after doing that and with time, does that relationship now exist. The faith now exists, because you were open to discussion, before you had that "connection."

So, at first, you had to "take a chance," didn't you? You had to engage and see what would happen. You had no idea what you'd get. You gave them all that consideration. But it seems one none of you will extend to me. Hell, have you even asked around, or talked with someone who has worked with me? I somehow doubt it. So, it all comes back to what I've been saying: How do you work out a price, or start to build that relationship, when one side refuses to engage? My door on this has always been open. But I can't make you walk through it.

Actually, I credit the dealers with building those relationships. They engaged me at cons or online or however and fostered the relationships. I am not a social creature and would rarely if ever volunteer my personal info or ask a dealer social questions. You have to make it work. Mike Burkey engaged me while I was looking at a Bruce Timm piece on his table. I didn't know him and he didn't know me. But after he started talking to me about it he offered to let me take it home and pay him in the future as long as I could produce someone who would vouch for me. Scott Eder laughed at my request but walked over and told Mike I was fine and I went home with a $1200 piece with no money out of pocket that day. It was a brilliant move on Mike's part, one he uses often I have learned and only Matt Stock is known to have screwed him over it. But Mike made it happen and I bought thousands of dollars (maybe 20K overall) of art from him until last year.

You have asked repeatedly about my thoughts or buying habits but you don't hear me complaining about their efficacy. What I do works for me. I have no obligation to make your style work for you, that is your responsibility. You seem unhappy about your results but choose to only look outward when everyone is telling you to look inward at your MO. Has ANYONE piped up and said otherwise. No. Not one person. We have all given our time here today to try and help in response to your complaints but no one can change these results but you.

Okay, too much time spent here. I am out. Listen. Or don't. Whatever.

Edited April 22, 2017 by Bird
added the Burkey bit

[Meeley Man]

1 minute ago, Bird said:

Actually, I credit the dealers with building those relationships. They engaged me at cons or online or however and fostered the relationships. I am not a social creature and would rarely if ever volunteer my personal info or ask a dealer social questions. You have to make it work.

You have asked repeatedly about my thoughts or buying habits but you don't hear me complaining about their efficacy. What I do works for me. I have no obligation to make your style work for you, that is your responsibility. You seem unhappy about your results but choose to only look outward when everyone is telling you to look inward at your MO. Has ANYONE piped up and said otherwise. No. Not one person. We have all given our time here today to try and help in response to your complaints but no one can change these results but you.

Okay, too much time spent here. I am out. Listen. Or don't. Whatever.

Okay. I get it. I'll tell my artists we need to sell on the cheap, because they are hacks with sub-par work. I'll stop trying to reach out to people, with stuff they might be interested in, because I don't want to spam people. No more eBay auctions, either. Free shipping on all orders, too. I don't need to make anything, after all. Anyone who wants to buy, just go to the gallery and offer ANYTHING on a piece, no matter how little, I'll accept it. The customer is always right, even when they are wrong. A business has to give them what they want at all times. Got it. Okay, let's "sell" some product!

[MagnusX]

This is the Truth...

The C / D material that you bring to the market
its way overpriced.

No one feel the need to bring an offer
due to the low quality and prices.

[Twanj]

4 hours ago, Bird said:

So I buy at auction mostly these days. But I swam in the lowest pools for a decade or two so I offered advice. I think I would listen to whatever people have to say and treat it accordingly. But again, when 8/10, 9/10, or 10/10 people tell me the same thing I would have to think "maybe I am off a bit here" and see why everyone but me feels that way.

 

heh is that a really nice way of saying

"If you run into an individual_without_enough_empathy in the morning, you ran into an individual_without_enough_empathy. If you run into individual_without_enough_empathys all day, you're the individual_without_enough_empathy."

 

[Meeley Man]

38 minutes ago, MagnusX said:

This is the Truth...

The C / D material that you bring to the market
its way overpriced.

No one feel the need to bring an offer
due to the low quality and prices.

If no one feels the need to bring any offers, they have no right to whine about the prices.

That's the truth.

Edited April 22, 2017 by Meeley Man

[Meeley Man]

45 minutes ago, Twanj said:

 

heh is that a really nice way of saying

"If you run into an individual_without_enough_empathy in the morning, you ran into an individual_without_enough_empathy. If you run into individual_without_enough_empathys all day, you're the individual_without_enough_empathy."

 

Or maybe it says the group you are associating with isn't a good one.

[MagnusX]

Keep digging buddy,
Your name, business and reputation
almost hit Rock Bottom.

 

 

[Meeley Man]

54 minutes ago, MagnusX said:

Keep digging buddy,
Your name, business and reputation
almost hit Rock Bottom.

 

 

Considering who that's coming from, it doesn't worry me in the least.

[malvin]

1 hour ago, Meeley Man said:

If no one feels the need to bring any offers, they have no right to whine about the prices.

That's the truth.

Actually no one complained about your prices.  You were complaining about your pieces not selling and most people mentioned the price as one factor. 

Lots of people put stuff for sale and many are unsold. I have stuff on my CAF for sale thst are unsold. I don't recall seeing too many people complaining on the boards about that  and certainly no one blames and alienates potential customers 

Malvin 

[Overthetopinc]

What Iron Fist pieces do you have for sale?

[Meeley Man]

26 minutes ago, malvin said:

Actually no one complained about your prices.  You were complaining about your pieces not selling and most people mentioned the price as one factor. 

Lots of people put stuff for sale and many are unsold. I have stuff on my CAF for sale thst are unsold. I don't recall seeing too many people complaining on the boards about that  and certainly no one blames and alienates potential customers 

Malvin 

Prices are the only thing people here pointed to as the problem (save the couple of jerks who insulted the artists I work with). And I've said if that is an issue, that you can always talk it over with me. I'm willing to work on prices, if I can. The door to "wheel-and-deal" is always open. But I can't force someone to walk through.

And again, how can you "alienate" something that doesn't exist? They already aren't buying. They are saying the price is the problem, but they won't engage to discuss it. Who's the one doing the alienating?

And here's one I'm wondering about now. They all ignore new art made for sale. They ignore my eBay auctions. They ignore attempts to be upbeat in the posts I make. But when I vent some frustration, all of a sudden, they break the trend. Why? Couldn't they just keep follow the tact they use on everything else? What does it say about them, when they only respond to something negative?

You are the only one who made any kind of worthwhile suggestion here, Malvin. And I do appreciate that. But the others, it's just "dogplie the rabbit," when I vent frustration. What's that say about them?

Edited April 23, 2017 by Meeley Man

[Meeley Man]

10 minutes ago, Overthetopinc said:

What Iron Fist pieces do you have for sale?

Well, right now, the only page I have with him on it is this one:

http://www.comicartfans.com/gallerypiece.asp?piece=1309733

I also have this page with the dragon he defeated to gain the Iron Fist:

http://www.comicartfans.com/gallerypiece.asp?piece=1241164

And just to beat it to the punch, if you feel the prices are a bit high, talk with me. I'm willing to try and work out a price we both can be happy with.

Also, just so you know, I spoke with Gerry Acerno today (the artist who has pages from this series). He said he might have a page with the retelling of Danny getting the Iron Fist tattoo, I told him if he's willing to sell it to send it, along with more PM & IF art he wants to sell. Keep watch on my gallery and I'll be sure to update any of that as soon as it comes in.

Edited April 23, 2017 by Meeley Man

[thehumantorch]

1 minute ago, Meeley Man said:

If no one feels the need to bring any offers, they have no right to whine about the prices.

That's the truth.

Sigh, let's just sit back and talk rationally.

Throughout this thread, experienced, well meaning collectors have told you your prices are too high for the type of art you're selling.  If you had any doubt, your results on ebay 100%, 100% support that information.  Think about it, no offers, no sales, even a 35% off sale generates no interest. 

It doesn't matter what you think the pages are worth, doesn't matter what the artists expect the pages to sell for, doesn't matter that you're honest or that you're proactive in trying to sell your pages, doesn't matter that you're open to offers.  What matters is the marketplace, which goes far beyond the small group of posters in this thread, isn't interested in the art you're selling at the price you're selling it for.  

Please, read through this thread.  Your posts are consistently passive aggressive or negative or combative.  Your hostile post, which I quoted above, is calling people whiners because they don't bring offers. The vast majority of boardies posting here are trying to help but you just don't seem to be able to listen.  The marketplace is passing on your auctions and blaming us or the marketplace is unproductive.

[Meeley Man]

1 hour ago, thehumantorch said:

Sigh, let's just sit back and talk rationally.

Throughout this thread, experienced, well meaning collectors have told you your prices are too high for the type of art you're selling.  If you had any doubt, your results on ebay 100%, 100% support that information.  Think about it, no offers, no sales, even a 35% off sale generates no interest. 

It doesn't matter what you think the pages are worth, doesn't matter what the artists expect the pages to sell for, doesn't matter that you're honest or that you're proactive in trying to sell your pages, doesn't matter that you're open to offers.  What matters is the marketplace, which goes far beyond the small group of posters in this thread, isn't interested in the art you're selling at the price you're selling it for.  

Please, read through this thread.  Your posts are consistently passive aggressive or negative or combative.  Your hostile post, which I quoted above, is calling people whiners because they don't bring offers. The vast majority of boardies posting here are trying to help but you just don't seem to be able to listen.  The marketplace is passing on your auctions and blaming us or the marketplace is unproductive.

"let's just sit back and talk rationally."

Okay.

"Well meaning collectors"

Sorry, don't buy that. The fact they even went after the artists themselves tells me that much.

"It doesn't matter what you think the pages are worth"

Which is why I'm open to discussion on price. I don't claim to be an expert on that. I'm always willing to talk and work it out.

"doesn't matter what the artists expect the pages to sell for"

Actually, it does. They have final say on all matters. It's their stuff, not mine. I can't do just anything I (or others) want. If I did, they probably wouldn't work with me and then I have nothing.

"doesn't matter that you're honest or that you're proactive in trying to sell your pages"

Well, it's good to know being ethical in this business is important, I guess. Maybe I should adopt Burkey's and Stock's tactics, since it doesn't matter.

"doesn't matter that you're open to offers."

So, people don't like the prices (they are too high) and they don't want to seek out a better price by making offers and working it out (if possible). Then what's really left to do?

"What matters is the marketplace, which goes far beyond the small group of posters in this thread, isn't interested in the art you're selling at the price you're selling it for. "

So, they don't like the prices, but don't want to talk to negotiate on prices. What's a person to do? That's like complaining about a pain, but then refusing to talk to a doctor to see what can be done.

"Your hostile post, which I quoted above, is calling people whiners because they don't bring offers."

They complain the prices are too high, but then don't want to make offers or negotiate on prices. What's a seller to do?

"Think about it, no offers, no sales, even a 35% off sale generates no interest."

Which says that it doesn't matter what I do. I'm being cut off at every turn. That seems like spite, to me. I was told here that "people would make a deal with the devil for art," yet they won't do that with me. They'll do it with dealers who've done unethical things, but they won't do it with me. I'm told I'm taking this all "too personally," but what else can it be, with the facts laid out like this?

"The vast majority of boardies posting here are trying to help"

No, they aren't.

"you just don't seem to be able to listen."

I was told prices are the problem. I said I'm open to discussing those, if someone is interested in something. What more can be done? If you won't discuss it with the seller, there's nothing left to do. All I can think it they expect the artists and I to give it away for next to nothing ourselves. But that will NEVER happen. So, what's left?

Again, it all comes back to what I've said over and over: How can prices be addressed or negotiated, when one side will clam up and refuse to discuss it? I've yet to see an answer for that.

Thanks for the "rational talk." It's a shame it didn't produce anything useful.

Edited April 23, 2017 by Meeley Man

[stinkininkin]

Wow.  Just...wow.

 

[thehumantorch]

6 minutes ago, Meeley Man said:

"let's just sit back and talk rationally."

Okay.

"Well meaning collectors"

Sorry, don't buy that. The fact they even went after the artists themselves tells me that much.

"It doesn't matter what you think the pages are worth"

Which is why I'm open to discussion on price. I don't claim to be an expert on that. I'm always willing to talk and work it out.

"doesn't matter what the artists expect the pages to sell for"

Actually, it does. They have final say on all matters. It's their stuff, not mine. I can't do just anything I (or others) want. If I did, they probably wouldn't work with me and then I have nothing.

"doesn't matter that you're honest or that you're proactive in trying to sell your pages"

Well, it's good to know being ethical in this business is important, I guess. Maybe I should adopt Burkey's and Stock's tactics, since it doesn't matter.

"doesn't matter that you're open to offers."

So, people don't like the prices (they are too high) and they don't want to seek out a better price by making offers and working it out (if possible). Then what's really left to do?

"What matters is the marketplace, which goes far beyond the small group of posters in this thread, isn't interested in the art you're selling at the price you're selling it for. "

So, they don't like the prices, but don't want to talk to negotiate on prices. What's a person to do? That's like complaining about a pain, but then refusing to talk to a doctor to see what can be done.

"Your hostile post, which I quoted above, is calling people whiners because they don't bring offers."

They complain the prices are too high, but then don't want to make offers or negotiate on prices. What's a seller to do?

"Think about it, no offers, no sales, even a 35% off sale generates no interest."

Which says that it doesn't matter what I do. I'm being cut off at every turn. That seems like spite, to me. I was told here that "people would make a deal with the devil for art," yet they won't do that with me. They'll do it with dealers who've done unethical things, but they won't do it with me. I'm told I'm taking this all "too personally," but what else can it be, with the facts laid out like this?

"The vast majority of boardies posting here are trying to help"

No, they aren't.

"you just don't seem to be able to listen."

I was told prices are the problem. I said I'm open to discussing those, if someone is interested in something. What more can be done? If you won't discuss it with the seller, there's nothing left to do. All I can think it they expect the artists and I to give it away for next to nothing ourselves. But that will NEVER happen. So, what's left?

Again, it all comes back to what I've said over and over: How can prices be addressed or negotiated, when one side will clam up and refuse to discuss it? I've yet to see an answer for that.

Thanks for the "rational talk." It's a shame it didn't produce anything useful.

'Went after artists'  Sure, guys have made C level type comments.  I can understand that you may like the artists work and the artists themselves but you're representing artists that aren't A list in popularity and that's what the comments are reflecting.  The market value of their pages.

'Open to discussion on price'  But you're not getting any interest.  That tells me that buyers perceive your prices to be too high to bother with a discussion and/or the art isn't interesting enough to motivate buyers to open discussion.  If you were selling art that had great demand or very reasonable prices you'd get interest.  How can you list art for sale, get zero interest, and not realize it's overpriced or of low demand?

'they don't like the prices, but don't want to talk to negotiate on prices. What's a person to do? That's like complaining about a pain'    Exactly, they don't like the prices, and they don't want to negotiate.  As a seller you have to find a price that moves the art.  The buyers will just move on to art they like better or that is cheaper.

'They complain the prices are too high, but then don't want to make offers or negotiate on prices. What's a seller to do?'  I'm not sure why you're characterizing posts as complaints.  You're having trouble selling art and people are telling you why in this thread.  As above a seller has to find a price that works for the buyer as well as the seller and you've failed to do that.  I sell comics at 10 shows a year and I've done it for 9 years.  There are tons of comics I think should sell for a certain amount but they don't.  Doesn't matter what I think it's worth.  Doesn't matter what I paid for it.  If buyers think my prices are a bit too high they'll hopefully make an offer, if they think I'm way too high they'll just walk away.  You're buyers are unfortunately walking away.  And if I have a book priced at $100 and three guys near me have similar books priced at $10 I'm not gonna get any offers and I'm not gonna sell anything.

'Which says that it doesn't matter what I do. I'm being cut off at every turn. That seems like spite, to me. I was told here that "people would make a deal with the devil for art," yet they won't do that with me. They'll do it with dealers who've done unethical things, but they won't do it with me. I'm told I'm taking this all "too personally," but what else can it be, with the facts laid out like this?'  This isn't personal.  It isn't spite.   Sad to say but yes, some people will make a deal with the devil for art, but that's generally for A list art or possibly a page from a book they loved many years ago and they're willing to pay up for the memory.  That you're ethical is wonderful but if you're prices aren't in line with other sellers you'll be an ethical seller without sales.
 

'I was told prices are the problem. I said I'm open to discussing those, if someone is interested in something. What more can be done? If you won't discuss it with the seller, there's nothing left to do. All I can think it they expect the artists and I to give it away for next to nothing ourselves. But that will NEVER happen. So, what's left?'  You keep coming back to I'm open to offers.  Buyers don't see in value in making an offer.  Doesn't matter that you're open to offers if buyers aren't motivated to make an offer.  What you and the artists value the art at is unfortunately not lining up with what the market is valuing the art at.  You won't make sales unless you and the artist AND the buyer agree on the value of the art.  Please, quit looking at this as something personal or thinking the vast numbers of original art collectors are wrong and undervaluing the art you're selling and instead look at it as an economic problem.  As many people have said in this thread, your prices are too high for the type of art you're listing and it's not selling for that reason.

'Again, it all comes back to what I've said over and over: How can prices be addressed or negotiated, when one side will clam up and refuse to discuss it? I've yet to see an answer for that.'  Indeed, you've said it over and over.  But this isn't sides.  There are thousands of original art buyers and they're a very diverse group with different backgrounds and different budgets and interests.  They aren't some monolithic entity that's ignoring your auctions out of spite.  This is clearly a business problem, and as a businessman you need to solve it.  The 3 obvious reasons you're not selling are, low demand product, high prices, bad seller.  If we consider you a good seller that leaves low demand product and/or high prices.  The solution to this problem is competitive prices and/or better product.

It isn't personal.  The other side isn't clamming up.  They just don't want what you have to sell at the price you're trying to sell it for.