Marvel Decides Who The Real Fans Are At C2E2 – No Window Bags For Comics Signatures! 5 5

[PatrickG]

On 4/23/2017 at 7:07 PM, fastballspecial said:

I understand that, but there is no way they could know that so you have to draw the line somewhere. From a person who has stood in line for one signature for this and the guy next to me has 10 books.(And has piles of others in a box.) he wants signed I can understand their reasoning. Its hard to single one out instead they have to do a blanket policy.

 

Ideally, you just enforce a book limit.

Even if someone is a blatant scalper, that might be the only way they can afford to attend cons. Back when Mattel exclusives were show-only at SDCC, that was how I paid back the cost of my plane ticket.

I think there's a tendency to see scalpers and resellers like wealthy art dealers or Bond villains. They aren't necessarily the bad guy though. They're often people trying to turn a few extra bucks when laid off or in school. Or just break even. Maybe it's junior's braces. Maybe it's Mom's cancer bills. Maybe it's just respectable work that takes a good eye and a level head and some luck.

My folks were never rich. But we paid for Christmas flipping Hallmark ornaments and collectible plates and Cabbage Patch Kids and Marvel trading cards. There are simple things from a weekend out of town to a nice Christmas dinner at home that Mom and Dad's paychecks wouldn't cover after bills but they made up the difference by figuring out what they could resell before it was hot and ordering some from a supplier or buying it at retail before it took off.

If anything, I think it's often a bit greedy on the part of manufacturers to try to cut those people out.

Their booth, their rules. But I can at least say I find those rules to be ugly and classist. The person hurt there is somebody who had to fly out on credit or who's trying to make up for a shift they gave up to attend the show. A professional reseller will just book a private signing anyway.

[PatrickG]

11 hours ago, 1Cool said:

But haven't most artists been saying this for years?  By having a sign up that says $5 for a sig and $20 in front of a CGC rep they are saying CGC fans are all flippers who are not real fans who don't deserve cheap signatures.

I don't know if that's fair. If they're paying the CGC or hiring a witness, the higher fee makes sense to me.

Some do seem to have an empathy deficit, however.

[mschmidt]

1 hour ago, PatrickG said:

I don't know if that's fair. If they're paying the CGC or hiring a witness, the higher fee makes sense to me.

Some do seem to have an empathy deficit, however.

The witnessing service that CGC provides is covered by the cost of the SS grading fee - if a creator wishes to charge $20 for a sig on a book that will be slabbed and $5 for a sig on a book that'll be kept raw, that money goes directly to the creator; it's not given to CGC to pay for the witness.

[PatrickG]

1 hour ago, mschmidt said:

The witnessing service that CGC provides is covered by the cost of the SS grading fee - if a creator wishes to charge $20 for a sig on a book that will be slabbed and $5 for a sig on a book that'll be kept raw, that money goes directly to the creator; it's not given to CGC to pay for the witness.

Interesting. I'd heard some pros claim they personally paid someone to stand beside them and act as a witness.

[1Cool]

6 hours ago, mschmidt said:

The witnessing service that CGC provides is covered by the cost of the SS grading fee - if a creator wishes to charge $20 for a sig on a book that will be slabbed and $5 for a sig on a book that'll be kept raw, that money goes directly to the creator; it's not given to CGC to pay for the witness.

It's a complete cash grab by the artist since they feel CGC equals flipper.  I'd much rather have them limit autographs to a few then have them decide who the true fans are.

[Turtle]

6 hours ago, PatrickG said:

Interesting. I'd heard some pros claim they personally paid someone to stand beside them and act as a witness.

I'd need more details to really comment on this, like "who was the creator" and "was this a small store signing or a convention".  It's not terribly common for a creator to pay to have a witness to attend a signing.  Usually a store owner, con promoter, or facilitator works to supply a witness for an event.  There may be special circumstances, but I'm having a hard time coming up with a scenario where a creator would benefit greatly by paying money to arrange a witness. 

 

 

[IntoAnother]

20 hours ago, BeachBum said:

I know why this happened, and many others do as well. I was given the heads up by a Marvel rep before the show started. It's not Marvel sticking it to the fans. They are tired of some Facilitator's behaviors at Marvel booth signing events. It hit the fan atg last year's SDCC. That's all I will say at this time other than the stunts some are pulling to get books signed by Celebs is out of control.

If this is seriously all the doing of one individual then whoever knows the facts needs to step up and share that information, and now is as good a time as any. The issues only continue to pile up at every show. This weekend was unfortunately no different, and now it's effecting the entire community. 

[Logan510]

4 hours ago, 1Cool said:

It's a complete cash grab by the artist since they feel CGC equals flipper.  I'd much rather have them limit autographs to a few then have them decide who the true fans are.

So why shouldn't they be entitled to a "cash grab"? It's their signature and they can do what they want with it. I know not every person getting a SS book is a flipper, but I would imagine the flippers outnumber the collectors by quite a bit.

[Turtle]

41 minutes ago, Logan510 said:

I know not every person getting a SS book is a flipper, but I would imagine the flippers outnumber the collectors by quite a bit.

If that's the case, to whom are the flippers selling? 

[1Cool]

38 minutes ago, Logan510 said:

So why shouldn't they be entitled to a "cash grab"? It's their signature and they can do what they want with it. I know not every person getting a SS book is a flipper, but I would imagine the flippers outnumber the collectors by quite a bit.

They entitled to do what they want but it definitely is not good PR with the SS crowd who are just as big a fan (or should be assumed  to be).  Raising sig prices by 4x for SS fans is not fair in my mind on many different levels.  If it took longer for the SS signature I'd understand it.  If the blue borders caused delays - I'd understand it.  Saying $20 for SS books is just defining who is a true fan in the same way as saying no blue borders.  Charge for a sig or don't but selecting who gets charged (or refused a sig) is bull in my mind.

[Logan510]

7 minutes ago, Turtle said:

If that's the case, to whom are the flippers selling? 

Collectors, other flippers? Does it really matter?

[Logan510]

6 minutes ago, 1Cool said:

They entitled to do what they want but it definitely is not good PR with the SS crowd who are just as big a fan (or should be assumed  to be).  Raising sig prices by 4x for SS fans is not fair in my mind on many different levels.  If it took longer for the SS signature I'd understand it.  If the blue borders caused delays - I'd understand it.  Saying $20 for SS books is just defining who is a true fan in the same way as saying no blue borders.  Charge for a sig or don't but selecting who gets charged (or refused a sig) is bull in my mind.

I get what you're saying, but I will always...always side with the creator in these situations. There are people who make a good portion of their living doing the SS books and selling them. I have zero issue if a creator wants to make some extra money off their signature. God bless the creators who will sign for free regardless or just ask for a small donation for something like the CLDF...but I will absolutely never hold it against a creator for trying to make an extra buck off of their own name.

[rjrjr]

1 minute ago, Logan510 said:

I get what you're saying, but I will always...always side with the creator in these situations. There are people who make a good portion of their living doing the SS books and selling them. I have zero issue if a creator wants to make some extra money off their signature. God bless the creators who will sign for free regardless or just ask for a small donation for something like the CLDF...but I will absolutely never hold it against a creator for trying to make an extra buck off of their own name.

+1

Some people just feel they are entitled which is why we have this thread.

[revat]

1 minute ago, 1Cool said:

They entitled to do what they want but it definitely is not good PR with the SS crowd who are just as big a fan (or should be assumed  to be).  Raising sig prices by 4x for SS fans is not fair in my mind on many different levels.  If it took longer for the SS signature I'd understand it.  If the blue borders caused delays - I'd understand it.  Saying $20 for SS books is just defining who is a true fan in the same way as saying no blue borders.  Charge for a sig or don't but selecting who gets charged (or refused a sig) is bull in my mind.

Especially when each of the books getting signed has already been bought and paid for (often in multiples) by a customer (regardless of fan status), and the CGC SS people they are off

a) more likely have more disposable income

b) in many cases (but not always) actually bigger fans than average

c) have complied with stated rules in all other way

d) many many comic collectors (fan of cgc or not) like to keep their books in great condition, and many many of those people buy more multiple books every month.

 

If I were Marvel, I wouldn't want any of my customers to feel singled out unfairly, but especially not the most hardcore ones or the ones with the most disposable money.  You charge me $20 because I want a CGC SS? Maybe I don't buy that extra variant next month.  But if you as a Marvel worker are gracious and friendly in line with me and give me a recommendation for a new title next month, maybe I check that one out.  I don't think other people in line who aren't doing CGC SS are less likely to buy their favorite marvel titles next month because five guys in front of them each had five books with window bags.

Just do limits, and if people wait in line together to get multiple books signed, so be it.  I don't think (any) fans will really object if everyone is waiting in line the same amount and paying the same amount.  But NO ONE who waits in line should leave the experience feeling like they've been treated or charged unfairly.  No creator should want that and no comic company should want that.  To me, that would be much more important than an artist who (probably incorrectly) feels like they left some money on the table.

[Broke as a Joke]

Just wondering do the guys that get 10-20 of the same books signed kick down something extra to the artist?  Like I really appreciate you signing these so I can make booku bucks on ebay here's a little something so you don't get salty. 

[revat]

3 minutes ago, Logan510 said:

I get what you're saying, but I will always...always side with the creator in these situations. There are people who make a good portion of their living doing the SS books and selling them. I have zero issue if a creator wants to make some extra money off their signature. God bless the creators who will sign for free regardless or just ask for a small donation for something like the CLDF...but I will absolutely never hold it against a creator for trying to make an extra buck off of their own name.

I agree with this, if they want to do it, they can and should do it.  But some of them if not most of them might be doing so without a complete understanding of the actual market for their signature, or the value that it adds.  And that can and often does result in unintended consequences that might be more detrimental to their cause, like the following, assuming $5 sig, $20 for CGC SS

 I'm a big fan.  I have a whole 10 issue run, which is my favorite run.  I would get all ten books signed at $5 per for CGC SS, $50 in the pocket of creator for $10 sigs.  Instead, I get zero sigs, because I want to keep my collection consistent.  And now I have a sour taste in my mouth about that creator and I'm less likely to buy anything else from his table or his work in the future. 

Why risk turning off real, actual fans?  Is it really worth it?  Do these creators really feel like they're leaving that much money on the table?  Are they?  Is it worth the risk?  I get that not every creator is an economist or savvy business man, but I just wouldn't want ANYONE who came to my table to feel like they were unfairly treated.

[Logan510]

8 minutes ago, revat said:

I agree with this, if they want to do it, they can and should do it.  But some of them if not most of them might be doing so without a complete understanding of the actual market for their signature, or the value that it adds.  And that can and often does result in unintended consequences that might be more detrimental to their cause, like the following, assuming $5 sig, $20 for CGC SS

 I'm a big fan.  I have a whole 10 issue run, which is my favorite run.  I would get all ten books signed at $5 per for CGC SS, $50 in the pocket of creator for $10 sigs.  Instead, I get zero sigs, because I want to keep my collection consistent.  And now I have a sour taste in my mouth about that creator and I'm less likely to buy anything else from his table or his work in the future. 

Why risk turning off real, actual fans?  Is it really worth it?  Do these creators really feel like they're leaving that much money on the table?  Are they?  Is it worth the risk?  I get that not every creator is an economist or savvy business man, but I just wouldn't want ANYONE who came to my table to feel like they were unfairly treated.

Really, that's up to the creators to see if the market for their signature isn't as high as they think it is or should be. I would have to assume if a creator notices they're not getting as much action at $20 per sig, they might lower it to see if there is more demand.

In the end I think it's really up to them if they want to charge or not and how much they want to charge and I won't hold that against them.

As one of my favorite creators has stated, all they really owe us fans is their best work possible, everything after that is gravy.

[ygogolak]

35 minutes ago, Turtle said:

If that's the case, to whom are the flippers selling? 

People who cannot attend shows where the person is signing.

[Red84]

42 minutes ago, 1Cool said:

They entitled to do what they want but it definitely is not good PR with the SS crowd who are just as big a fan (or should be assumed  to be).  Raising sig prices by 4x for SS fans is not fair in my mind on many different levels.  If it took longer for the SS signature I'd understand it.  If the blue borders caused delays - I'd understand it.  Saying $20 for SS books is just defining who is a true fan in the same way as saying no blue borders.  Charge for a sig or don't but selecting who gets charged (or refused a sig) is bull in my mind.

A ss book is worth more than a non-ss book.  The artist is charging for a product.  To get a more valuable product you have to pay more. My take on it.

[Red84]

there was something similar going on at Frank Miller's signing.  They were selling COA's with matching holograms to put on your signed piece for $20.  I was a little annoyed because I had already paid for the signature, but i understood why they were doing it.  A person keeping the piece doesn't need a COA.  A person who has the intention to sell it has to pay.  I chose not to buy the COA.