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Marvel Decides Who The Real Fans Are At C2E2 – No Window Bags For Comics Signatures!
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216 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Logan510 said:

Please, no worries, I was absolutely not talking about you :foryou:

Personally, if I want a guys signature and he charges I'll pay it as long as it's within what I consider reasonable for me. I would've loved to have been in on that Frank Miller signing, but the prices were too steep for me, though I know that there were certainly plenty of people who did pay for them.

There are plenty of creators who will sign for nothing though ( or a small donation ), I have stood in line helping people out with their SS stuff to know this much.

(thumbsu

I agree, a signature fee within reason is acceptable. Sadly it's less and less creators week to week who feel the same way.

Even just this morning I was alerted to the fact that three more creators will likely no longer be getting my support because they just joined that very same stable.

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1 hour ago, Kreton said:

Of the names you listed, Chipper Jones has always been more than accommodating when interacting with fans.  I've witnessed him signing multiple times for everyone around him.   I always hated the Braves and especially him until I saw how friendly he is with the fans.

 

Jordan,, Bonds and Tiger, on the other hand....

Not the information I have on him.  Could be wrong.  The point of my post you quoted was that "flippers" ruined it for the true fans.  I believe that to be true.

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4 hours ago, IntoAnother said:

Why would you always side with the creators?

These are individuals who are paid for the work they do. Many of them also sell original art, sell merchandise, get paid to attend shows, get books optioned, don't pay booth fees, have paid photo sessions, etc...

How is that not enough gravy for them?

We already bought the book and supported them and the company they work for. Many times we are also paying for flights, hotels, food, Uber's, admission, etc...just to get to that booth to lay our books in front of them. Yet that doesn't ever seem to be taken into consideration or spoken of. 

You are talking about the minority while I think Logan 510 means the majority. The minority are a few writers and artists who have made it big. They make a killing I agree. Artist alley is full of those that haven't or never will.

 

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2 hours ago, Broke as a Joke said:

Does every "real" fan of let's say JSC need a signed copy of every variant he releases that month?  Maybe, but me personally, I'm good with one sig from an artist on an important book or one that has personal value to me.  Why these people get every single cover signed is bizarre to me.

Years ago I would see someone bring up 20 copies to sign by the artist and back then they would do it. I saw Silverstri sign 30 books in front of me for one guy when I had him sign my 2 X-men books. (He signed free back then.) I had to assume he was selling them because there multiple copies of several issues. SS has changed that game, but I think its still bizarre as well.

 

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4 minutes ago, Lucky Baru said:

Not the information I have on him.  Could be wrong.  The point of my post you quoted was that "flippers" ruined it for the true fans.  I believe that to be true.

The only way I can see how flippers "ruined it" for fans is if they come up with boxes and boxes of for the artist/celebrity to sign which takes up so much time that the fans get shut out. I have seen that happen as probably most people have at cons where some doophus shows up with a box packed with books while I stand there with my three little books in hand and have to wait 15-20 minutes while he gets them all signed, holding up the line for everyone else. Fans will walk away from long lines like that no matter who the artist is.

Again, flippers don't "MAKE" the artist start charging for sigs - or "make" them stop doing sigs at all. If anything, having a multi-millionaire celebrity moaning that "Oh, I see so many of my signatures on ebay and I don't get any of those profits so I'm not going to sign anything anymore!", now THAT'S just dumb. There are systems to ensure that fans can get their signatures and folks who want CGC-witnesses can get theirs too (like McFarlane does). 

 

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3 minutes ago, fastballspecial said:

You are talking about the minority while I think Logan 510 means the majority. The minority are a few writers and artists who have made it big. They make a killing I agree. Artist alley is full of those that haven't or never will.

 

And I think they would benefit THE MOST from making the 'fan' experience as positive as possible, for any 'fans' they have.  Which doesn't necessarily mean not charging, just means that charging different amounts for CGC risks turning off some of the actual fans you have.  Most people who had more than a few books signed would throw them a few bucks or buying something from their table I think.

 

and yes, as stated above, the people who ruin it are people unreasonably want tons of book signed while others are waiting and not paying, especially when they don't even bother to pretend they have interest in the artist.   And then the artist finds out that person is getting paid to get the sigs.  And then that artist looks online and sees their $5 book selling for $70-$100, not understanding all the fees/costs involved.   And then that artist gets a sour taste in their mouth about CGC.  And they think they're leaving money on the table because others are profiting (when they're actually more likely getting paid for a service).  And then they ask their agent about it, who probably doesn't know either, and they decide they should charge more for CGC, because a couple of dingbats ruined their line.  And then anyone who has windowbags gets lumped in with the dingbats.  And then here we are.

 

If everyone was reasonable, obviously the CGC SS world (and the whole world) would probably be a better place.  Such as it is, I hope there's a few honest facilitators or CGC  reps out there who have relationships with artists who can more accurately portray whats going on, not just jockey for exclusive and private deals or signings, though I understand its not in their best interests.

Like I understand why its done, but sometimes it kinda sucks that for some artists, I can't go to a con and talk to a dude and watch him sign my favorite book for CGC SS (maybe get a pic! even if I have to pay!), because he only does CGC SS through private signings.  But that's another topic, one which I absolutely understand the rationale, but it just kinda sucks sometimes.

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Just now, jcjames said:

The only way I can see how flippers "ruined it" for fans is if they come up with boxes and boxes of for the artist/celebrity to sign which takes up so much time that the fans get shut out. I have seen that happen as probably most people have at cons where some doophus shows up with a box packed with books while I stand there with my three little books in hand and have to wait 15-20 minutes while he gets them all signed, holding up the line for everyone else. Fans will walk away from long lines like that no matter who the artist is.

Again, flippers don't "MAKE" the artist start charging for sigs - or "make" them stop doing sigs at all. If anything, having a multi-millionaire celebrity moaning that "Oh, I see so many of my signatures on ebay and I don't get any of those profits so I'm not going to sign anything anymore!", now THAT'S just dumb. There are systems to ensure that fans can get their signatures and folks who want CGC-witnesses can get theirs too (like McFarlane does). 

 

There is a documentary that followed Paul McCartney around.  It showed him arrive and leave from an appearance.  His loathing for the autograph seekers is very apparent and at one point he looks at the camera, explains that all of those ones he just signed would end up on eBay, and that's why he hates signing.  So, yes, "flippers" caused McCartney to have a change of heart on signing.

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43 minutes ago, fastballspecial said:

You are talking about the minority while I think Logan 510 means the majority. The minority are a few writers and artists who have made it big. They make a killing I agree. Artist alley is full of those that haven't or never will.

 

Those were just a few examples of how several creators have numerous ways of income, that's all. My apologies if it came out wrong. I didn't mean to make a blanket statement about all creators.

I'll always continue to support creators in artist alley that are creating a story or art I enjoy. Just as we all should, because the next legend could be starving behind the millionaire asking for $20 from some fan to sign a single comic that's going to be graded. 

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10 minutes ago, kav said:

Creators: for every flipper that's a book that ends up in the hands of a fan.  Boom.

actually, I bet there's also a lot of would-be flippers who get caught holding the "Stan Lee modern CGC SS 8.5-9.2 bag".

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2 minutes ago, revat said:

actually, I bet there's also a lot of would-be flippers who get caught holding the "Stan Lee modern CGC SS 8.5-9.2 bag".

yep.  so there's nothing 'bad' about flippers-they either get the book to a real fan, or they lose money.  win win.

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23 minutes ago, FineCollector said:

What if we could go back in time?  Signatures are free, but you can't slab them.  Would you still want them?

My favorite sigs are the McFarlanes, Jim lee, and berni wrightson I got before I knew about cgc ss

all free 

 

 

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6 hours ago, revat said:

If everyone was reasonable, obviously the CGC SS world (and the whole world) would probably be a better place. 

The sig/exclusive biz can be pretty ugly and is likely more ugly than I've seen with the mere two or three big shows I attend.   Too much pettiness, deceit, and overall nonsense.  I love seeing these guys get their friends in line for books or sigs, or changing out their exhibitor badges for regular attendee badges so they can get in lines.  There are some legit guys out there making a living doing this and kudos to them for doing it right and honestly, but there are very few of them.

Some think its all about that hustle.  Some think you need to make a killing, when all you really have to do is make a living.  But what do I know...

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5 hours ago, Designer Toast said:

The sig/exclusive biz can be pretty ugly and is likely more ugly than I've seen with the mere two or three big shows I attend.   Too much pettiness, deceit, and overall nonsense.  I love seeing these guys get their friends in line for books or sigs, or changing out their exhibitor badges for regular attendee badges so they can get in lines.  There are some legit guys out there making a living doing this and kudos to them for doing it right and honestly, but there are very few of them.

Some think its all about that hustle.  Some think you need to make a killing, when all you really have to do is make a living.  But what do I know...

Yes, it's uglier than what you are seeing at those shows. There is more and more drama at the shows. People are literally fighting in exclusive lines and throwing names around that they shouldn't be. Someone got called out on this at C2E2 and got smacked down verbally by a big name in the business and subsequently made to apologize for their actions (I wish it was on Video). People are behaving like they can do whatever they want with no consequences and repercussions to themselves or the dealer/Facilitator community. Hopefully a lesson was learned but I doubt it.

When it comes to the badges it's true - you have Facilitators/Dealers buying regular/VIP badges and swapping out when need be. You also have Facilitators borrowing badges/VIP badges from attendees. One customer/friend of mine of told me of a instance recently of when he was at one show a Facilitator asked him to loan out his VIP badge so they could get his witnesses through the line and he obliged. At a subsequent show the same customer approached the Facilitator for help with a witness and he was shut down immediately and told they were too busy to help him - couldn't even bother to reciprocate the courtesy he had shown on his one book. Facilitator lost a customer for life.

 

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33 minutes ago, BeachBum said:

Yes, it's uglier than what you are seeing at those shows. There is more and more drama at the shows. People are literally fighting in exclusive lines and throwing names around that they shouldn't be. Someone got called out on this at C2E2 and got smacked down verbally by a big name in the business and subsequently made to apologize for their actions (I wish it was on Video). People are behaving like they can do whatever they want with no consequences and repercussions to themselves or the dealer/Facilitator community. Hopefully a lesson was learned but I doubt it.

When it comes to the badges it's true - you have Facilitators/Dealers buying regular/VIP badges and swapping out when need be. You also have Facilitators borrowing badges/VIP badges from attendees. One customer/friend of mine of told me of a instance recently of when he was at one show a Facilitator asked him to loan out his VIP badge so they could get his witnesses through the line and he obliged. At a subsequent show the same customer approached the Facilitator for help with a witness and he was shut down immediately and told they were too busy to help him - couldn't even bother to reciprocate the courtesy he had shown on his one book. Facilitator lost a customer for life.

 

What you described isn't the actions of people that aren't "fans".  You are describing the actions of those that are business people that worship money.  They aren't there for the experience, and to meet a creator because their work meant something to them.  Their actions lessen the experience for those that only have one opportunity to meet their "heroes".  Sad.

Who was the party that got called out for their actions and made to apologize?

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11 hours ago, FineCollector said:

What if we could go back in time?  Signatures are free, but you can't slab them.  Would you still want them?

 

10 hours ago, revat said:

My favorite sigs are the McFarlanes, Jim lee, and berni wrightson I got before I knew about cgc ss

all free 

 

 

 At the first LSCC convention I was lucky enough to meet Berni Wrightson and have him sign for free my Creepy Presents hardcover, which reprints his classic Bronze Age work.  My first and only opportunity to meet this genius.

Irreplaceable memory.

And sig.

Edited by Ken Aldred
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The biggest surprise here to me is that anyone is still reading Marvel, let alone interested enough in their garbage writers/artists to have them sign a book.

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Also, maybe we should start using the NAMES of these facilitators when discussing their actions.

 

 

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