Avengers: Endgame (2019) 5 5

[Bosco685]

1 hour ago, TwoPiece said:

Homecoming wasn’t billed as a “must-see” prior to the next Avengers movie.

How quickly some forget.

Let’s not confuse box office numbers for character popularity - because it’s a severely flawed metric.

In no way, shape, or form is Captain Marvel more popular than Spider-Man.

It is a good point, no matter if people agree or not. When you have an MCU fan going to a movie 42 times because he can't get enough of it, you wonder how many other fanatics are doing this driving numbers sky-high and the assumption 'Everyone loves these movies'?

I remember when people posted on here Captain America: Civil War was the greatest comic book movie -ever, and using the massive box office as a validation of this statement. How many of those are posting now "Wow, that was no Civil War. What a movie!" None!

Now, back to...

Edited April 20, 2019 by Bosco685

[Bosco685]

For those short on time but wanting to rewatch everything before Endgame.

 

[234wallst]

1 hour ago, TwoPiece said:

Captain Marvel will not be the next face of the franchise. An unpopular character with a mediocre movie (in Phase 3, nonetheless) and a divisive actress isn’t going to cut it.

They’ll cut their losses on the idea and do what’s right for both the MCU and it’s fans. And that will be putting Spider-Man front and center. A great character with a plethora of good stories to draw from (unlike Carol Danvers).

You do realize that Marvel Studios does not own the rights to Spider-Man - he still belongs to Sony.  Sony funds the films and takes in all the profits, but Marvel Studios produces it for them (they put the MCU shine on it, that for whatever reason other studios can't seem to replicate on any consistent basis).  The current agreement is for 3 Spidey solo films, and a new agreement would be required for the partnership to continue.  There is no way MS makes him the "key" character going forward, because they have no control over his future and it would be less profitable.

[Bosco685]

14 minutes ago, 234wallst said:

You do realize that Marvel Studios does not own the rights to Spider-Man - he still belongs to Sony.  Sony funds the films and takes in all the profits, but Marvel Studios produces it for them (they put the MCU shine on it, that for whatever reason other studios can't seem to replicate on any consistent basis).  The current agreement is for 3 Spidey solo films, and a new agreement would be required for the partnership to continue.  There is no way MS makes him the "key" character going forward, because they have no control over his future and it would be less profitable.

I think it was:

• Captain America: Civil War
• Spider-Man: Homecoming
• Avengers: Infinity War
• Avengers: Endgame
• Spider-Man: Far From Home

So now with the success of Venom and Spider-Man: Into The Spider-Verse, I wonder how much more leverage Sony has, along with a willingness to even work with the MCU. There is value to having characters from the larger Marvel Universe appear in these films. But what that means for a renewed deal will be interesting.

[Gatsby77]

4 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

I think it was:

• Captain America: Civil War
• Spider-Man: Homecoming
• Avengers: Infinity War
• Avengers: Endgame
• Spider-Man: Far From Home

So now with the success of Venom and Spider-Man: Into The Spider-Verse, I wonder how much more leverage Sony has, along with a willingness to even work with the MCU. There is value to having characters from the larger Marvel Universe appear in these films. But what that means for a renewed deal will be interesting.

That's what I've read.

So the Sony-Marvel deal essentially expires after Far From Home.

It's up to Sony to decide whether they want to continue (or forge) a new ageement with Disney after that.

As you state, there's far less incentive to do so now that Sony's had success with both Venom and Far From Home.

 

If I'm Kevin Feige, there's (again) _zero_ chance I bank the future of the Avengers on a character that's owned by another studio. (To say nothing of Spidey's leading the Avengers going against 55 years of comic book history.)

[234wallst]

"In 2015, Sony struck a five-movie deal with Marvel Studios that permitted Spider-Man to be part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, but Avengers is coming to an end this spring."

I guess I didn't remember the fine details correctly - you are right 5 movies.  For some reason I was thinking it was "3 solo" movies (not counting the team up appearances).  In any case my main point stands - Spidey can't be the MCU lead without Marvel/Disney having control of his future.

[Naphtha]

Sony/Marvel is a win win and I doubt it will change. Marvel fills the seats for Sony and Sony sells the toys for Marvel. You guys put too much weight in the movie rights when the real money comes from merchandising.

[Bosco685]

24 minutes ago, MadJimJaspers said:

Sony/Marvel is a win win and I doubt it will change. Marvel fills the seats for Sony and Sony sells the toys for Marvel. You guys put too much weight in the movie rights when the real money comes from merchandising.

Disney bought the Spider-Man merchandising rights back from Sony in 4Q 2011. So the latter doesn't care how much Disney will make. But Disney does.

Edited April 20, 2019 by Bosco685
Corrected the year

[Naphtha]

19 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

Disney bought the Spider-Man merchandising rights back from Sony in 4Q 2011. So the latter doesn't care how much Disney will make. But Disney does.

No, its mutualistic. More ticket sales means more lunchboxes and vice versa. 

[@therealsilvermane]

17 minutes ago, 234wallst said:

"In 2015, Sony struck a five-movie deal with Marvel Studios that permitted Spider-Man to be part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, but Avengers is coming to an end this spring."

I guess I didn't remember the fine details correctly - you are right 5 movies.  For some reason I was thinking it was "3 solo" movies (not counting the team up appearances).  In any case my main point stands - Spidey can't be the MCU lead without Marvel/Disney having control of his future.

I think Sony understands they need Marvel Studios at this point to really make Peter Parker’s story work. They can’t reboot the character a fourth time. And I think Disney understands they still need Spider-Man to be part of their universe. I think they’ll make something work going forward. 

[Bosco685]

1 hour ago, MadJimJaspers said:

No, its mutualistic. More ticket sales means more lunchboxes and vice versa. 

Definitely makes sense. Just clarifying Sony has no merchandising benefit.

[chezmtghut]

Even with the Spider-verse taking off, it's still a no brainer for Sony to keep Spidey working within the MCU. They may have leverage to ask for some proceeds of the merchandise now, but I still think it makes sense to keep a shared universe or future Spidey films could end up like TAS franchise again & tank everything Sony has been working hard to build around him. There's no way Spidey will lead the Avengers but he can can play a role that will keep fans happy on both ends of the spectrum (MCU & Spider-verse). Avengers 5 should be in 2022 & I would imagine Spidey 3 in 2021, so there is plenty of time for a new agreement to come into play.

[@therealsilvermane]

Hmm, does this mean less Spider-Man in "Phase Four" of the MCU?

Edited April 20, 2019 by @therealsilvermane

[Broke as a Joke]

After Endgame, I don't think we will need an Avengers 5.  

[Bosco685]

Good Lord! The China box office chart for Endgame is like a massive rocket taking off.

 

[Bosco685]

 

[The Brain]

Spoiler

4 day opening World Wide take will approach 1.1 billion.

 

Edited April 20, 2019 by The Brain

[Prince Namor]

The Comicsgate ‘fans’ that are talking down Captain Marvel leading the MCU in this new phase are the same ones who told us:

Kathleen Kennedy would be fired from Star Wars by now.

Rian Johnson was out at Disney because of TLJ and would never make another Star Wars movie. 

Black Panther would be a failure. 

And that Captain Marvel would do Doctor Strange box office numbers. 

The only thing that means anything in Hollywood is MONEY. And Captain Marvel is knocking it out of the park. 

They can make all the excuses they want - when you invest millions in something - ANYTHING can happen. And when it turns out to be a BILLION dollar winner - it is a BIG WINNER. 

Captain Marvel is seen as a BIG winner by the only people that matter - the studio. 

She is the future of the MCU. 

Read it and weep. 

Kathleen Kennedy is still in charge. Rian Johnson is making a TRILOGY of Star Wars movies. Black Panther is the highest grossing domestic superhero  movie ever.

And Captain Marvel is leading the new Phase. 

All I hear are excuses and desperate hopes. 

Edited April 20, 2019 by Chuck Gower

[@therealsilvermane]

10 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

For those short on time but wanting to rewatch everything before Endgame.

 

Okay, so I would love to see Luis tell the Avengers story from Iron Man to Endgame. That might could be the awesomest MCU thing EVER.

[jsilverjanet]

It's no doubt to me that Captain Marvel will be the Superman for the Marvel Universe. Does that mean she's the Iron Man, maybe not. RDJ shoes are pretty big to fill and I don't think they have to necessarily fill them with one person/hero. They've created a nice set of heroes for the next set of movies with their own fans (Black Panther, Captain Marvel, Spider-Man) that no one of them have to be the main character/face.