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Avengers: Endgame (2019)
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Started by Bosco685,

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Bosco685

Bosco685

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2 hours ago, TwoPiece said:

I'm going to tag this for being a major spoiler.

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Apparently Tony Stark's snap of the Nano Gauntlet sent all of the 2014 characters back to the correct timeline without future memory, including Gamora, which clips that branch in time.

Allegedly, there is only one alternate reality, where Loki escapes Avengers Tower with the Tesseract and Cap fulfills his fantasy life with Peggy Carter.

I don't think any of this is confirmed by the Russo Bros. (could be, haven't checked) but it makes a lot of logical sense.

 

 

46 minutes ago, ghengishahn said:

Has this been rumored?  I assumed when Tony snapped the Stark gauntlet, all the bad guys just went into the soul world like the first snap and are not dead but trapped.

I don't remember this. Did they actually transport back to their original timeline? Or did this come out in another Russo Brothers interview where they had to explain details we didn't see in the movie?

:gossip: I hope they checked with the screenwriters this time to coordinate their story.

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theCapraAegagrus

theCapraAegagrus

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48 minutes ago, ghengishahn said:

Has this been rumored?  I assumed when Tony snapped the Stark gauntlet, all the bad guys just went into the soul world like the first snap and are not dead but trapped.

There is no confirmation that The Decimation transferred the 6 trillion souls to Soul World. Only Gamora.

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theCapraAegagrus

theCapraAegagrus

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2 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

I don't remember this. Did they actually transport back to their original timeline? Or did this come out in another Russo Brothers interview where they had to explain details we didn't see in the movie?

:gossip: I hope they checked with the screenwriters this time to coordinate their story.

As I mentioned, I have not really searched to confirm.

I've watched so many Russo interviews and read so much Russo commentary, and the same in general about Endgame, that I can't remember who said it.

It makes a lot of logical sense, though, right?

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Bosco685

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Just now, TwoPiece said:

As I mentioned, I have not really searched to confirm.

I've watched so many Russo interviews and read so much Russo commentary, and the same in general about Endgame, that I can't remember who said it.

It makes a lot of logical sense, though, right?

I could see them having Tony reset the characters as otherwise there would be timeline impacts. I think. Hmmm. Back to reading those interviews where the Russos and the screenwriters differed on the rules slightly.

But I think the past did not impact the future (the Russos changing the 'Back To the Future' rules), as otherwise Old Thanos being dusted would have impacted the older timeline.

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theCapraAegagrus

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Just now, Bosco685 said:

I could see them having Tony reset the characters as otherwise there would be timeline impacts. I think. Hmmm. Back to reading those interviews where the Russos and the screenwriters differed on the rules slightly.

But I think the past did not impact the future (the Russos changing the 'Back To the Future' rules), as otherwise Old Thanos being dusted would have impacted the older timeline.

If Tony doesn't send those characters "back", then a branch in time (alternate reality) is created. They can only clip the branches by replacing what was momentarily changed. That's why Cap had to return all 6 Stones and Mjolnir.

If this rumor/whatever is true, then only 2 realities exist. If not, there are as many as 4 other realities now in the MCU.

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theCapraAegagrus

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1 minute ago, Bird said:

The far from home trailer establishes that there’s now a multi-verse

Yes, that's obvious. What isn't transparent (yet) is how many alternate realities exist.

If true, there is only 1. If not, up to 4 (that we know of).

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Bosco685

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3 minutes ago, TwoPiece said:

If Tony doesn't send those characters "back", then a branch in time (alternate reality) is created. They can only clip the branches by replacing what was momentarily changed. That's why Cap had to return all 6 Stones and Mjolnir.

If this rumor/whatever is true, then only 2 realities exist. If not, there are as many as 4 other realities now in the MCU.

 

2 minutes ago, Bird said:

The far from home trailer establishes that there’s now a multi-verse

Bingo! I wonder if when Steve wrestled down Jane Foster to shoot the Reality Stone back in her, maybe he got something wrong leading to Mysterio being transferred to our timeline.

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theCapraAegagrus

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Just now, Bosco685 said:

Bingo! I wonder if when Steve wrestled down Jane Foster to shoot the Reality Stone back in her, maybe he got something wrong leading to Mysterio being transferred to our timeline.

The Aether kinda sought Jane out, so I'm guessing he just had to release the stone in her vicinity.

I'm saying that there's a minimum of 2 realities already. It's not possible to remain as 1. I'm also saying that having more than 2 realities seems excessive, and this logic should probably be used to explain as much (if not been said by the Russos already).

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Bosco685

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18 minutes ago, TwoPiece said:

The Aether kinda sought Jane out, so I'm guessing he just had to release the stone in her vicinity.

I'm saying that there's a minimum of 2 realities already. It's not possible to remain as 1. I'm also saying that having more than 2 realities seems excessive, and this logic should probably be used to explain as much (if not been said by the Russos already).

Interesting article about Gamora (2014).

Avengers: Endgame and the Gamora Problem

Quote

One of the more satisfying parts of Gamora’s story in Avengers: Endgame came when she asked the present-day Nebula about her relationship with her sister. In her typical style, Nebula was honest about both how far the fraught relationship had come, as well as the multiple times she had tried to kill Gamora between 2014 and her present reality. Eventually, Gamora comes around to "our" Nebula's way of thinking, indicating that, much like we saw in the events of the first Guardians of the Galaxy movie, she didn't need much of a push to see the light about her father.

 

In a marked departure from the relationship we’ve come to know and love, when Gamora watched present-day Nebula kill her 2014 counterpart in front of her, she didn’t seem especially concerned. Contrast that with the pain in our Gamora’s voice in Infinity War when she pleaded with Thanos not to torture Nebula. She begs him to leave Nebula alone, her voice cracking. When she eventually gives up the location of the Soul Stone to save Nebula’s life, Gamora goes to Nebula’s side and puts a hand to her sister’s cheek to comfort her. I can’t imagine these two characters doing this when they first met, and it’s jarring to go back there again so quickly thanks to this "past" version of Gamora. It would have been great to see Endgame acknowledge this dichotomy more directly, whether by highlighting Gamora’s interiority or by having Nebula react or comment on her blase demeanor in some way.

 

2014 Gamora’s indifference to her sister’s death seems like a sign of just how damaging it was to be raised by Thanos. While we’ve heard Nebula and Gamora refer to each other as sisters, it’s usually with a sneer, and Gamora’s disregard for another life is disturbingly definitive proof that they never acted like it, in any normal sense of sisterhood. No one was expecting a warm and fuzzy upbringing from a genocidal cosmic warlord, but during Infinity War’s flashbacks it seemed like Thanos had true love and affection for Gamora and whatever his faults, killing her in exchange for the Soul Stone did cost him something.

 

By Avengers: Endgame's own time travel rules, present-day Nebula’s choice to kill her 2014 antecedent did not erase herself from the narrative. This makes killing her former self less of a sacrifice but no less weird or confusing. Referring back to Tony and the Hulk’s attempt at parsing the rules of time travel, this seems to fall under the idea that going back in time doesn’t alter the present, but rather creates a new branch in the timeline.

 

When Tony Stark snapped with the Infinity Gauntlet and removed Thanos' army from existence (at the cost of his own life), Gamora wasn't turned to dust. So where did she go at the end of the battle? Since she doesn’t particularly know any of these characters and isn’t close to her sister, it’s no big surprise that she noped right out of the situation. But what we do know is that Peter Quill is now looking for her (even though she didn't recognize him and kicked him in an uncomfortable place). Back on his ship, before Thor walked in, Quill was running a search for Gamora and coming up empty. The Guardians are a family, and I imagine that feeling will only grow after the events of Infinity War and Endgame. If the rest of the crew knows there’s a Gamora out there, even if she’s not the Gamora who knows and loves them, I imagine they would want to track her down, just like Quill.

 

Is it possible that the "original" Gamora is somehow be trapped inside the soul stone, and could be restored to Gamora’s 2014 physical self? When Thanos snapped in Infinity War, he spoke to the childhood version of Gamora. It might have been some kind of hallucination, but it seemed like it was through the cosmic power of the Soul Stone. Might her essence still be in there somehow, waiting for the right method to release it, and a physical manifestation it can inhabit? We’ll have to wait until Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 to find out.

 

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chezmtghut

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A multiverse by definition has unlimited potential realities. The idea that Stark’s snap transferred everyone back to 2014 when we see Thanos & his crew turned to dust, honestly makes no sense to me. They would have just disappeared. The fact that Thanos & all the villains from Infinity War are dead prior to that movie taking place, created a major shift imo. Agents of SHIELD is already incorporating the multiverse into this season. It created a fracture between universes that’s allowing people to travel between them, from what Fury said in the new Spidey trailer. 

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Bosco685

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Avengers: Endgame brought the first volume of the Marvel Cinematic Universe to a rousing and beautiful close - but that doesn't mean the film was able to neatly wrap up every single MCU storyline in a neat little bow. A lot of fans have raised their voices about one character in particular who was missing from Endgame's story: Sharon Carter (Emily VanCamp)!

 

Well, thanks to Avengers: Infinity War and Endgame writers Stephen McFeely and Christopher Markus, we now know that Sharon Carter actually did appear in earlier -script drafts:

 

During an interview with Yahoo, McFeely and Markus were describing the exhaustive process of exploring story ideas then shaving them away, in order to get the tightest and most propulsive story they could for both Infinity War and Endgame. That's when McFeely revealed the following about the role Agent 13 / Sharon Carter almost had:

 

"...but again, cast your mind back to 'Infinity War': Anything that was not about Stones, Thanos, 'We're in trouble - this propulsive narrative - got jettisoned. We tried to sew up all sorts of things; we had first drafts where Steve was living with Sharon Carter, and it wasn't going very well."

 

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Chillax23

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On 5/22/2019 at 2:47 PM, TwoPiece said:

If Tony doesn't send those characters "back", then a branch in time (alternate reality) is created. They can only clip the branches by replacing what was momentarily changed. That's why Cap had to return all 6 Stones and Mjolnir.

If this rumor/whatever is true, then only 2 realities exist. If not, there are as many as 4 other realities now in the MCU.

I thought Tony had said - we do not mess with the past several years since the original decimation as he did not want to undo his time since then (i.e., him having a daughter) - so if he reset them back to the original time wouldn't his daughter cease to exist?  This whole thing is somewhat confusing - but as long as they use the "alternate timelines/realities" as a way to introduce the X-Men and Silver Surfer I am ok with it :)

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