Avengers: Endgame (2019) 5 5

[Bosco685]

What Does AVENGERS: ENDGAME’s Five-Year Jump Mean for the MARVEL CINEMATIC UNIVERSE?

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Avengers: Endgame managed to close out the "Infinity Saga" by seemingly wrapping up the current narratives of several big name Avengers and bringing back all those lost in Thanos’ Snap. Their solution, however, was to bring back everyone who was Snapped as not having aged or changed, but five years later, with their un-Snapped loved ones having grown, changed, and presumably in some cases moved on.

 

This five-year jump carries its own implications for what might come next for those who were dusted, and for the Marvel Cinematic Universe overall – to say nothing of the extremely complicated results of spontaneously bringing back trillions of people throughout the Universe.

 

While some of those questions can be answered with “Infinity Gauntlet magic,” we’re left asking – what does the time jump mean for the next phase of the MCU?

 

The most obvious route to addressing the implications of the five-year jump is to just, well, avoid it. That’s the route Marvel TV seems to be taking, judging by the premiere of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. season 6 (read our advance review here). While that opens its own separate can of worms, the idea that Marvel could consider the matter closed and move on isn’t totally impossible – that’s often how things work in comic books, by necessity.

 

But that leaves almost everything we know is coming from Marvel Studios in the next few years saddled with big hanging questions that, if totally unaddressed in the story, might put a bit of a dent in the whole 'fully realized shared universe' thing.

 

While the potential ramifications of the jump on Endgame’s immediate MCU follow-up Spider-Man: Far From Home have been pretty clearly laid out with the latest trailer's new wrinkles adding to these questions, Black Panther 2, Doctor Strange 2, Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3, Black Widow, and even a presumptive Captain Marvel 2 all have big unsettled questions arising from the jump.

• Who was the ruler and the Black Panther of Wakanda while T'Challa and Shuri were Snapped?
• Who was Earth’s Sorcerer Supreme during the five-year gap has significant potential effects on Doctor Strange 2.
• Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 – is Gamora’s fate the next MacGuffin for the franchise? We still don’t exactly know where the past-Gamora ended up – or if the Gamora lost to the Soul Stone can be saved.
• And what of the presumed-prequel Black Widow? Now that Black Widow sacrificed herself in the manner she did, it would seem tone-deaf to simply jump to the past for a new story.
• Captain Marvel 2 will have to grapple with the fact that the 2023 MCU is now 34 years ahead of when Carol Danvers left Earth the first time and 28 years after she left earth the second time – not to mention what might have happened with all those planets she was tending to besides ours as a result of Endgame.

 

[fantastic_four]

27 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

I think Endgame is experiencing some of the timetravel hurdles other films have gone through.

• Star Trek (2009)

Abrams or his screenwriter were VERY careful with how they approached time travel in that film to keep it as simple as possible.  Nero went back in time to destroy Vulcan, and once he did it Kirk and Spock's timeline was from that moment onwards completely divergent from the original timeline and we never even saw the original timeline again in any of the films, and the only reminder that it even existed was old Spock and young Spock being together in that divergent universe.  Endgame was far more ambitious and complex with what it tried to do with the characters going back and forth in time and crossing what may or may not have been divergent timelines.

Edited May 24, 2019 by fantastic_four

[Bosco685]

58 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

Abrams or his screenwriter were VERY careful with how they approached time travel in that film to keep it as simple as possible.  Nero went back in time to destroy Vulcan, and once he did it Kirk and Spock's timeline was from that moment onwards completely divergent from the original timeline and we never even saw the original timeline again in any of the films, and the only reminder that it even existed was old Spock and young Spock being together in that divergent universe.  Endgame was far more ambitious and complex with what it tried to do with the characters going back and forth in time and crossing what may or may not have been divergent timelines.

Oh, I agree.

But hardcore Trekkies had big issues with the timeline change. For me, I liked it.

[fantastic_four]

1 hour ago, Bosco685 said:

2 hours ago, fantastic_four said:

Abrams or his screenwriter were VERY careful with how they approached time travel in that film to keep it as simple as possible.  Nero went back in time to destroy Vulcan, and once he did it Kirk and Spock's timeline was from that moment onwards completely divergent from the original timeline and we never even saw the original timeline again in any of the films, and the only reminder that it even existed was old Spock and young Spock being together in that divergent universe.  Endgame was far more ambitious and complex with what it tried to do with the characters going back and forth in time and crossing what may or may not have been divergent timelines.

Oh, I agree.

But hardcore Trekkies had big issues with the timeline change. For me, I liked it.

I dislike all time travel stories in principle, but if it isn't obtrusively complex I'll just ignore it.  I was easily able to ignore it in the Abrams Star Trek.

You CAN'T ignore it in Endgame.  You have to figure it out to some extent, and to figure it out in its entirety takes longer than I prefer due to my bias against the plot complexity that's always associated with intricate time travel.

Edited May 24, 2019 by fantastic_four

[theCapraAegagrus]

It's a Snyder-esque thinking man's movie. You have to see it a few times and think about it. It's a breath of fresh air for the MCU.

[paperheart]

China run is over; did $900K on its last day (Thursday); lack of extension probably cost $7MM+ in add'l BO

[theCapraAegagrus]

Just now, paperheart said:

China run is over; did $900K on its last day (Thursday); lack of extension probably cost $7MM+ in add'l BO

Only 4 weeks? That seems incredibly short in this age.

[Bosco685]

 

[ghengishahn]

41 minutes ago, TwoPiece said:

Only 4 weeks? That seems incredibly short in this age.

Alas, it seems its true.

http://chinafilminsider.com/headlines-from-china-avengers-endgame-finishes-theatrical-run-in-china-without-extension/

 

[Bosco685]

On 5/18/2019 at 8:39 AM, Bosco685 said:

 

[Bosco685]

2 hours ago, fantastic_four said:

I dislike all time travel stories in principle, but if it isn't obtrusively complex I'll just ignore it.  I was easily able to ignore it in the Abrams Star Trek.

You CAN'T ignore it in Endgame.  You have to figure it out to some extent, and to figure it out in its entirety takes longer than I prefer due to my bias against the plot complexity that's always associated with intricate time travel.

It really is so in-your-face there is no way around it. But the more you dig, the bigger the holes you can make.

[chezmtghut]

That's the 1st I've read about previous Avengers movies lasting 2 months in China or 3 months for Infinity War. I'm pretty sure the general rule is opening weekend + 4 weeks on films that do well, while some get pulled in 2 - 3 weeks. I believe Avengers 1 & 2 lasted 5 weeks each & Infinity War lasted opening weekend + 8 weeks (59 days).

It seems like Furious 7 (5 weeks) & FotF (opening weekend + 9 weeks / 65 days) were given extensions also, but it's rare they keep anything past 1 month. They only played the first Harry Potter films for 1 week & jumped to 38 days with Deathly Hallows 1, then 46 days for part 2. Fantastic Beasts was 59 days (11/25/16 - 1/22/17) but Doctor Strange was pulled after 31 days (11/4/16 - 12/4/16) around the same time, even though DS made 109M+ while FB made just under 86M. Crimes of Grindelwald dropped to 31 days at 57M+. So the extensions they offer seem to be somewhat random. Pulling Endgame after 1 month has literally no impact on the US government, so I don't buy it being about the trade war. The 25% take that the studio would get & then pay taxes on is minimal. Preventing US import films in China would seem more like a statement on the trade war, but it would hurt the box office & Chinese government in terms of taxes more than it ever would America.

[Bosco685]

11 hours ago, chezmtghut said:

That's the 1st I've read about previous Avengers movies lasting 2 months in China or 3 months for Infinity War. I'm pretty sure the general rule is opening weekend + 4 weeks on films that do well, while some get pulled in 2 - 3 weeks. I believe Avengers 1 & 2 lasted 5 weeks each & Infinity War lasted opening weekend + 8 weeks (59 days).

It seems like Furious 7 (5 weeks) & FotF (opening weekend + 9 weeks / 65 days) were given extensions also, but it's rare they keep anything past 1 month. They only played the first Harry Potter films for 1 week & jumped to 38 days with Deathly Hallows 1, then 46 days for part 2. Fantastic Beasts was 59 days (11/25/16 - 1/22/17) but Doctor Strange was pulled after 31 days (11/4/16 - 12/4/16) around the same time, even though DS made 109M+ while FB made just under 86M. Crimes of Grindelwald dropped to 31 days at 57M+. So the extensions they offer seem to be somewhat random. Pulling Endgame after 1 month has literally no impact on the US government, so I don't buy it being about the trade war. The 25% take that the studio would get & then pay taxes on is minimal. Preventing US import films in China would seem more like a statement on the trade war, but it would hurt the box office & Chinese government in terms of taxes more than it ever would America.

NOT TO MAKE THIS A POLITICAL DISCUSSION, but more about business:

It's not the government they were trying to impact: it's the business which then will be big enough to grab the right ears to complain about money left on the table because of the trade war. Which is happening already.

So yes, one of the largest studios in the world is not going to get an extension on its largest movie ever released leading to missed revenue from the second largest market in the world. Discussions will occur behind-the-scenes.

Edited May 25, 2019 by Bosco685

[drotto]

17 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

It really is so in-your-face there is no way around it. But the more you dig, the bigger the holes you can make.

How I kinda interpreted what Tony did with his snap was simply say Thanos returns to his timeline at the point he found out about the future and forgets about the future and the events that followed that discovery. 

 

Maybe that is overly simplistic, but the at the moment return mirrors what they needed to do with the stones. Plus, the amnesia takes care of the issue of Thanos not following through on his original plans. It also means the finals events of Endgame still occur as shown.

 

Yes,  the five year jump will still create a mess, but not sure the Russo's care at this point.  Let others deal with that problem.

[paperheart]

$2.646BB - $142MM to Avatar; <$100MM after Sunday/Monday?  still too close to call.

[chezmtghut]

It is looking a little more likely to match Avatar. Made nearly 20M Monday - Thursday internationally (dropping around 35% from last week), probably 25M+ this weekend & another 18M - 20M domestically by Memorial Day also. 

[chezmtghut]

I still think it has little impact on the trade War. Maybe it would have made another 50M - 100M. I think Infinity War did 30M - 40M during it’s extension. It’s also likely they don’t want Endgame being the # 2 movie to be released in China. Again, China would be hurting their own revenue stream more than America’s. If it’s really about the trade war, they will pull all American movies to make a clear point. Just like they locked up 2 Canadians in death penalty cases after Canada didn’t comply with their demand to release Meng Wanzhou. 

Edited May 25, 2019 by chezmtghut

[Bosco685]

 

[234wallst]

On 5/24/2019 at 9:48 AM, jsilverjanet said:

That 5 year jump is a mistake 

not sure why people don’t recognize it 

I'm not a big fan of time travel plots because it always creates a big mess afterwards (and I don't mean in the movie verse - but the fan verse).  But you need to take it with a grain of salt - fictional concepts don't always make sense, because they are fiction and not fact.

Spoiler

The 5 year jump was critical to the story as it was told.  Banner, Barton, Stark, Thor all go through significant transformations in one way or another, and all these took time.  Lang coming out 5 years later but in 5 hours time was the whole basis of the plot.

 

[paperheart]

$2.677BB, $111MM from Avatar- not going to get there