Avengers: Endgame (2019) 5 5

[@therealsilvermane]

45 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

They didn't have carriages and cars in 1970...?

As mentioned - the song was already referenced in The Winter Soldier. They didn't select it based on the era that he went back to.

And who cares if Steve Rogers had the record in his collection in Winter Soldier. It's a neat Easter egg, but doesn't change the fact that the song was a radio hit in 1945. Steve Rogers going back to the time when the song was current completes his story circle.

[theCapraAegagrus]

1 minute ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Okay, the Russo Brothers say a new timeline was created by Steve Rogers going back in time. I'll go with that because it's more in line with the "Back to the Future is BS" stance in Endgame.

However, Steve going back to the 1940's is not a debate. But I'll play. I've got a little time.

The Russo Brothers, nowhere I could find, do not specify what time Rogers goes back to. The Endgame writers say 1948.

VFX Supervisor Trent Clause says Steve Rogers was 119 years old when he gives Sam the shield, but should look 85-95 because of the super soldier serum. Those years would be off if you consider he was born in 1918. But still, doing the math with the makeup effect, it means young Steve Rogers went further back in time than 1970. If it was 1970, that means Steve would only look like he was about 85 years old (add his current look about 30 years if he was 26 when he froze to 53 years). With the super soldier effect, he'd look younger than he did at the end of Endgame. But as it is, going back to 1945-8 means he added 75+ living years to his current "30 year look", again if you consider he was about 26 when he went into the ice.

Here are set pics of Peggy Carter's home clearly furnished circa 1940's with 1940's appliances:

And here's Marvel CineWiki stating Steve and Peggy's 1940's home from Endgame in 1949.

Also, I have to find them, but there are set pics of Peggy Carter's neighborhood street seen in the crane shot in Endgame where you clearly see 1940's cars parked and one drive by the house.

Steve Rogers went back to the 1940's in Endgame. No debate.

And, again, I'll state that you're only correct regarding the fact that "there is no debate".

You can claim that those are 1940's furniture, but with what evidence...? Uncorroborated conjecture. By any accounts I can search, people of historic education suspect that Rogers returned to somewhere between 1955 and 1970.

I lived in a house built/furnished in the 90's for 20 years. Those don't even look like 1940's furniture lol.

The 1940's is an arbitrary argument based on nothing. 1970 makes logical sense since he already had to travel there.

[theCapraAegagrus]

Just now, @therealsilvermane said:

And who cares if Steve Rogers had the record in his collection in Winter Soldier. It's a neat Easter egg, but doesn't change the fact that the song was a radio hit in 1945. Steve Rogers going back to the time when the song was current completes his story circle.

It doesn't, though, because the Russo Bros confirmed that he traveled to a time when he was long accepted as dead. The record is of-significance and the year it was "popular" holds no bearing on when they were dancing to it.

[@therealsilvermane]

3 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

It doesn't, though, because the Russo Bros confirmed that he traveled to a time when he was long accepted as dead. The record is of-significance and the year it was "popular" holds no bearing on when they were dancing to it.

For me, it should have been 1944 where he could meet Peggy for that date he promised her before he crashes. But going with 1948 is a time where he could  be "long accepted as dead." Four years is a long time.

[RedRaven]

[theCapraAegagrus]

Regardless of what year anyone thinks it is - there are 3-4 multiverses.

[Chaos_in_Canada]

[Bosco685]

7 minutes ago, RedRaven said:

[theCapraAegagrus]

I'd like to see Carter vs Romanoff.

I'd be on Carter's side.

[Chaos_in_Canada]

[s-man]

On ‎2‎/‎17‎/‎2020 at 1:33 PM, RedRaven said:

How Lucas originally imagined the Vader/Obi-Wan fight?

[@therealsilvermane]

Watched Avengers Endgame last night for the 10th time or so. The post-apocalyptic tone was eerily comparable to what's going on right now. And such great little character moments thoughout.

Avengers Endgame is cinema. Marty Scorsese and Frankie Coppola can STFU now.

[Turtle]

On ‎3‎/‎17‎/‎2020 at 4:12 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

Watched Avengers Endgame last night for the 10th time or so. The post-apocalyptic tone was eerily comparable to what's going on right now. And such great little character moments thoughout.

Avengers Endgame is cinema. Marty Scorsese and Frankie Coppola can STFU now.

The look of the "5 Years Later" world that Scott suddenly found himself in has always bothered my wife and me.  Scott is walking down the street where trash piled high along the curb, as if people are living in the houses but basic services like trash collection are rare.  Then the kid rides by on the bike and kind of scowls at Scott without answering his question, which gives off an unsettled vibe.

I know The Snap was a universal event and I could buy things being severely disrupted for a few months, but I'd say that after a single year the overwhelming majority of people would settle into the new normal and things would largely resume to their pre-Snap operations, only with fewer people around.  By 5 years later, if he's seeing trash piled on the street and kids are scowling at him, that's not a reflection of the world, it's just a bad neighborhood and Scott should get outta dodge ASAP. 

Ever since I saw the movie, I've been a fan of the idea of exploring the 6-year window between the original Snap through 1 year past the events of Endgame.  They alluded to some of these situations in Far From Home (Martin Starr's wife pretending she got snapped but really she just left him...cold-blooded), but I'd like to see these play out.  No superheroes are necessary, this could be like internet shorts or something.  How does a family dynamic change when younger siblings suddenly become older siblings?  What happens when a wife gets snapped and the husband re-marries within 5 years, only to have his first wife re-appear?  What happens to the economy when suddenly the number of consumers doubles?  It's an interesting premise with endless angles to tackle. 

[theCapraAegagrus]

53 minutes ago, Turtle said:

The look of the "5 Years Later" world that Scott suddenly found himself in has always bothered my wife and me.  Scott is walking down the street where trash piled high along the curb, as if people are living in the houses but basic services like trash collection are rare.  Then the kid rides by on the bike and kind of scowls at Scott without answering his question, which gives off an unsettled vibe.

I know The Snap was a universal event and I could buy things being severely disrupted for a few months, but I'd say that after a single year the overwhelming majority of people would settle into the new normal and things would largely resume to their pre-Snap operations, only with fewer people around.  By 5 years later, if he's seeing trash piled on the street and kids are scowling at him, that's not a reflection of the world, it's just a bad neighborhood and Scott should get outta dodge ASAP. 

Ever since I saw the movie, I've been a fan of the idea of exploring the 6-year window between the original Snap through 1 year past the events of Endgame.  They alluded to some of these situations in Far From Home (Martin Starr's wife pretending she got snapped but really she just left him...cold-blooded), but I'd like to see these play out.  No superheroes are necessary, this could be like internet shorts or something.  How does a family dynamic change when younger siblings suddenly become older siblings?  What happens when a wife gets snapped and the husband re-marries within 5 years, only to have his first wife re-appear?  What happens to the economy when suddenly the number of consumers doubles?  It's an interesting premise with endless angles to tackle. 

The Decimation.

This is why the Steve Rogers meeting scene was included. Even after 5 years - life just isn't the same. We're talking universal, structural, destruction. Half of everything, not just half of 1 person's everything. Half of everyone's everything.

I got lost 7 years ago and still haven't found my way. Endgame is a realistic outcome.

Edit: The Scott Lang scene was also worst-case scenario. "...at random..." means that that particular neighborhood could be mostly unaffected by Thanos, as far as citizens, but their infrastructure was.

Edited March 20, 2020 by theCapraAegagrus

[Turtle]

2 hours ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

The Decimation.

This is why the Steve Rogers meeting scene was included. Even after 5 years - life just isn't the same. We're talking universal, structural, destruction. Half of everything, not just half of 1 person's everything. Half of everyone's everything.

I got lost 7 years ago and still haven't found my way. Endgame is a realistic outcome.

Edit: The Scott Lang scene was also worst-case scenario. "...at random..." means that that particular neighborhood could be mostly unaffected by Thanos, as far as citizens, but their infrastructure was.

Please keep in mind that I fully realize this movie is full of cyborgs, space ships, and magic hammers...but I just didn't find the reaction to the Snap "realistic" in the context of being 5 years later. 

The Steve Rogers meeting just struck me as a bit dramatic considering it was 5 years out.  Take Hawkeye for example.  He lost his entire family, but this didn't completely debilitate him.  I'm sure he mourned and likely went through the stages of loss (maybe revisiting Anger once he was done).  After 5 years, he's not crying into his dinner salad at the mere mention of what happened.  Granted, he's a SHIELD Agent who deals with Avengers-level threats, so he's more resilient than most, but I think the majority of the human race would react closer to Hawkeye than the person who's crying on a date 5 years later.  Maybe I'm an optimist. 

Steve's support group meeting and Scott's stroll down the street seemed like it fit more into the timeframe of where the movie began...around 3 weeks post-Snap.  The loss is still fresh and infrastructure would start rebuilding, but it was a way to go.  5 Years post-Snap, it seems weird that it'd still be the #1 thing on people's minds.  I think Far From Home did a nice job showing what it was like.  People talk casually about the Blip.  People acknowledge that it happened, but they aren't crippled by sadness over it despite the inherent sadness it would no doubt evoke. 

[@therealsilvermane]

7 hours ago, Turtle said:

Please keep in mind that I fully realize this movie is full of cyborgs, space ships, and magic hammers...but I just didn't find the reaction to the Snap "realistic" in the context of being 5 years later. 

The Steve Rogers meeting just struck me as a bit dramatic considering it was 5 years out.  Take Hawkeye for example.  He lost his entire family, but this didn't completely debilitate him.  I'm sure he mourned and likely went through the stages of loss (maybe revisiting Anger once he was done).  After 5 years, he's not crying into his dinner salad at the mere mention of what happened.  Granted, he's a SHIELD Agent who deals with Avengers-level threats, so he's more resilient than most, but I think the majority of the human race would react closer to Hawkeye than the person who's crying on a date 5 years later.  Maybe I'm an optimist. 

Steve's support group meeting and Scott's stroll down the street seemed like it fit more into the timeframe of where the movie began...around 3 weeks post-Snap.  The loss is still fresh and infrastructure would start rebuilding, but it was a way to go.  5 Years post-Snap, it seems weird that it'd still be the #1 thing on people's minds.  I think Far From Home did a nice job showing what it was like.  People talk casually about the Blip.  People acknowledge that it happened, but they aren't crippled by sadness over it despite the inherent sadness it would no doubt evoke. 

I couldn’t disagree more. People who experience war or personal trauma can spend years in therapy and still never heal. Seeing family or friends vanish before one’s eyes must have been very very traumatizing. I can see some folks in this universe “move on” as Steve Rogers says, while others never move on at all. And in the context of a group therapy meeting where the members bare their souls to each other, a little somberness is to be expected. Five years doesn’t seem  that long at all to fully recover from losing half of all adults on Earth. But at the same time, things have evolved. You see the Vanished Memorial in Golden Gate Park. The Avengers have “intergalactic” Illuminati meetings. But It’s important to our story that the filmmakers show how the Snap has negatively affected the universe. 
On the other hand, I don’t think Spider-Man Far From Home, with its light teen movie tone, explored enough how equally screwed up life would be after everyone is brought back.

[Gaard]

I have no idea why I'm wondering this, but it crossed my mind last night.

When I was actively reading comics, it was back in the 60s & 70s. I haven't read anything put out by Marvel in a couple of decades, but when I was a kid (and at the height of my comic reading), Spidey and DD had kind of a "I know your secret" relationship. Spidey and Johnny Storm also had a kind of a friendship. The thing is, I don't remember Spidey and Tony Stark ever having a friendship of any kind. The way Marvel likes to retcon stuff, though, I wouldn't be surprised if things are vastly different these days as opposed to back then.

So is the relationship between Spidey and Iron Man anything close to the way it was portrayed in the movies?

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 3/20/2020 at 2:36 PM, Turtle said:

Please keep in mind that I fully realize this movie is full of cyborgs, space ships, and magic hammers...but I just didn't find the reaction to the Snap "realistic" in the context of being 5 years later. 

The Steve Rogers meeting just struck me as a bit dramatic considering it was 5 years out.  Take Hawkeye for example.  He lost his entire family, but this didn't completely debilitate him.  I'm sure he mourned and likely went through the stages of loss (maybe revisiting Anger once he was done).  After 5 years, he's not crying into his dinner salad at the mere mention of what happened.  Granted, he's a SHIELD Agent who deals with Avengers-level threats, so he's more resilient than most, but I think the majority of the human race would react closer to Hawkeye than the person who's crying on a date 5 years later.  Maybe I'm an optimist. 

Steve's support group meeting and Scott's stroll down the street seemed like it fit more into the timeframe of where the movie began...around 3 weeks post-Snap.  The loss is still fresh and infrastructure would start rebuilding, but it was a way to go.  5 Years post-Snap, it seems weird that it'd still be the #1 thing on people's minds.  I think Far From Home did a nice job showing what it was like.  People talk casually about the Blip.  People acknowledge that it happened, but they aren't crippled by sadness over it despite the inherent sadness it would no doubt evoke. 

Agree to disagree. Certainly realistic from my experience (as someone who has lost a lot - yet less than those in the fictional MCU).

Hawkeye is a 'hero'. Kinda how Han and Leia went back to what they're good at - Barton went back to what he's good at - except he went to an extreme. Ronin was/is more anti-hero than hero. The opinion that the rest of mankind can cope by being a vigilante? I'm sorry, but, that's just wildly impossible.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 3/21/2020 at 7:41 AM, Gaard said:

I have no idea why I'm wondering this, but it crossed my mind last night.

When I was actively reading comics, it was back in the 60s & 70s. I haven't read anything put out by Marvel in a couple of decades, but when I was a kid (and at the height of my comic reading), Spidey and DD had kind of a "I know your secret" relationship. Spidey and Johnny Storm also had a kind of a friendship. The thing is, I don't remember Spidey and Tony Stark ever having a friendship of any kind. The way Marvel likes to retcon stuff, though, I wouldn't be surprised if things are vastly different these days as opposed to back then.

So is the relationship between Spidey and Iron Man anything close to the way it was portrayed in the movies?

In the comics? Not that I'm aware of.

[Turtle]

On ‎3‎/‎20‎/‎2020 at 10:36 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

On the other hand, I don’t think Spider-Man Far From Home, with its light teen movie tone, explored enough how equally screwed up life would be after everyone is brought back.

I agree that it wasn't explored enough...hence my desire to see a series of shorts exploring these concepts. 

Far From Home took place weeks (I'm guessing?) after Hulk brought everyone back.  Other than missing out on how messed things would be if the population doubled in an instant, the overall feeling was a general sense of normalcy.  Airlines and airports seemed operational, the tourism industry seemed strong, and at the very least there were luxuries like Carnivals and Operas.  School is back in session with snapped and non-snapped people alike.  MJ makes a casual reference about Flash getting Snapped to the flight attendant.  This is mere weeks after the population effectively doubled, which would put a massive strain on infrastructure and supply chains.  I'm not saying that the adjustment the other side of either Snap would be easy, I'm just saying that it wouldn't take 5+ years in either case for the general population to adjust to the new normal. 

Going back to Endgame, the scene with the Vanished memorial seemed reasonable.  There were a lot of visitors and the area was well-kept and landscaped.  The people looked somber but otherwise normal.  They weren't scowling with distrustful looks at each other like they're in some apocalyptic wasteland like the kid on the bike that Scott encountered.  The memorial looked like it belonged in the 5-years later world.  The street that Scott was on just before that with uncut lawns and garbage piled high looked like it was straight out of Walking Dead.  The two scenes take place at basically the same time in basically the same location, but they paint two very different pictures. 

I think ultimately it boils down to tones.  Endgame had a somber tone and tried (and succeeded) to convey a sense of gravity.  Far From Home I think served as a palette cleansing epilogue of sorts; a movie to re-inject some levity after such a heavy movie.  Maybe both movies went a little overboard in opposite directions...I just think Far From Home was closer to real human behavior.