Avengers: Endgame (2019) 5 5

[fantastic_four]

Saw it, loved it.  The time elements were so complex I think I'll have to watch it two more times to decide if the open questions I have about what happened were gaping plot holes or not.

My main question is this:

Spoiler

So the main characters they killed off are the ones whose actors have been saying for years they didn't want to return, i.e. Captain America and Iron Man.  Is this really Feige's plan for handling big actor changes, to kill characters off?  How does he deal with that when Disney wants to cash in on them again, reboot the universe?  Create spin-off universes?  Resurrect them?  I'm extremely confused.

So is Loki still going to die after he disappeared with the Tesseract in 2012, or is his destiny now entirely different?  He's getting his own television series, so I assume he isn't.  Or maybe the television show covers Loki's past?

 

[fantastic_four]

I do have one huge time question:

Spoiler

So Cap went back to put the stones back into their original timeframes.  What about all of the other major time stream changes they made during the film?  Loki's path will now be ENTIRELY different since he ended up with the Tesseract.  And now they've killed Thanos before he had a chance to get the stones and do the snap.  So the snap never happened, which means it's an entirely different timeline from the original one.  Which I assume means The Ancient One really will be sitting there waiting forever for the Time stone since the film's timeline is now entirely different from hers.  

 

[fastballspecial]

1 hour ago, jsilverjanet said:

4 hours ago, fastballspecial said:

DC never has a chance unless they look at this Marvel model and make changes.
They are so far ahead of them its ridiculous.

 

Unlike the comics, DC isn’t competing here. The mistake many make is to suggest that there is some completion, thus creating a winner and a loser.

Disney is competing with everyone when they release a movie.

Its very obvious they aren't competing. Just watch a few of their movies.

 

[ExNihilo]

2 hours ago, fastballspecial said:

Its very obvious they aren't competing. Just watch a few of their movies.

 

They were competing...and then DC sort of gave up and decided to just make movies they think are fun.  And rightfully so considering how much of a failure Justice League turned out to be (but that gets discussed ad nauseum in any of these Marvel threads).

 

3 hours ago, fantastic_four said:

Saw it, loved it.  The time elements were so complex I think I'll have to watch it two more times to decide if the open questions I have about what happened were gaping plot holes or not.

My main question is this:

  Hide contents

So the main characters they killed off are the ones whose actors have been saying for years they didn't want to return, i.e. Captain America and Iron Man.  Is this really Feige's plan for handling big actor changes, to kill characters off?  How does he deal with that when Disney wants to cash in on them again, reboot the universe?  Create spin-off universes?  Resurrect them?  I'm extremely confused.

So is Loki still going to die after he disappeared with the Tesseract in 2012, or is his destiny now entirely different?  He's getting his own television series, so I assume he isn't.  Or maybe the television show covers Loki's past?

 

Spoiler

Those characters have been there for 10+ years.  Don't you think it's time for them to move on and to eventually recast them down the road (a la James Bond).  I mean, it's better that they handled it the way that they did.  In Caps case it's inspired by the comics.  And in Tony's case, it's great because people always complain about how nothing is ever really at stake.  We just lost two original Avengers, it's great to inject that sadness into a franchise which has historically been happy go lucky.

 

3 hours ago, fantastic_four said:

I do have one huge time question:

  Hide contents

So Cap went back to put the stones back into their original timeframes.  What about all of the other major time stream changes they made during the film?  Loki's path will now be ENTIRELY different since he ended up with the Tesseract.  And now they've killed Thanos before he had a chance to get the stones and do the snap.  So the snap never happened, which means it's an entirely different timeline from the original one.  Which I assume means The Ancient One really will be sitting there waiting forever for the Time stone since the film's timeline is now entirely different from hers.  

 

Spoiler

The time travel stuff really gave me a headache.  I think about 10 pages back, Bosco posted a handy graphic detailing the various branches that are created.  As I understand it, anytime an action occurs that was different from the "prime" universe, it creates a new branch. 

Therefore, there's a new universe now where Loki and the Tesseract disappeared.  Does he bring it to Thanos and the inevitability of it all come to pass?  Or does he do his own mischievious stuff with it?  Who knows, maybe the Disney+ show will reveal it.

Regarding "past" Thanos, as soon as he found out a future Nebula was in the timestream, he altered his decision, thus creating a new branch.

As far as time travel goes, The Ancient One wouldn't have waited more than 5 seconds as the Avengers would just set the return time to occur just a few seconds after Hulk disappeared.  From the Ancient One's perspective Hulk would have taken the time stone and disappeared and Cap would have appeared in his place literally seconds later.  (Just like how Cap is supposed to only be away for 5 seconds at the end, yet has enough time to return 6 stones and Mjolnir).

Where I get confused is how Cap appears on the bench after living out a life with Peggy.  One would think that would constitute a change to the timeline, thus creating a new branch as well.

 

[fantastic_four]

3 hours ago, ExNihilo said:

7 hours ago, fantastic_four said:

Saw it, loved it.  The time elements were so complex I think I'll have to watch it two more times to decide if the open questions I have about what happened were gaping plot holes or not.

My main question is this:

  Reveal hidden contents

So the main characters they killed off are the ones whose actors have been saying for years they didn't want to return, i.e. Captain America and Iron Man.  Is this really Feige's plan for handling big actor changes, to kill characters off?  How does he deal with that when Disney wants to cash in on them again, reboot the universe?  Create spin-off universes?  Resurrect them?  I'm extremely confused.

So is Loki still going to die after he disappeared with the Tesseract in 2012, or is his destiny now entirely different?  He's getting his own television series, so I assume he isn't.  Or maybe the television show covers Loki's past?

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Spoiler

Yes, I've been expecting them to take the James Bond model and just swap actors all along.  But that's not what they just did, they killed them off.  WTF?  So every time an actor leaves they whack the character?  How is that sustainable?  

 

Edited April 28, 2019 by fantastic_four

[MyNameIsLegion]

8 hours ago, jsilverjanet said:

Unlike the comics, DC isn’t competing here. The mistake many make is to suggest that there is some completion, thus creating a winner and a loser.

Disney is competing with everyone when they release a movie.

 

ummm, I"m gonna let you think that through so you can retract it later.  

[Bosco685]

Timeline chart again.

On 4/26/2019 at 2:19 PM, Bosco685 said:

For those trying to figure out some of the science that came up in the movie (avoiding too many details)...someone charting the decisions made.

  Reveal hidden contents

But the general audience probably thought "Cool - time travel!" 

 

[Bosco685]

Quote

After the events of Avengers: Infinity War wiped out half of the population across the entire universe, fans wondered just how Marvel Studios would be able to bounce back from this. All it took was a little ingenuity, the Quantum Realm, and the wherewithal to traverse the space-time continuum.

Spoiler

After five years, the heroes of the MCU unite in a last ditch effort to restore what was lost from the galaxy when Thanos snapped his fingers. The heroes have to go back in time and assemble a new Infinity Gauntlet from the stones, which brings forth a ton of complications on its own. But it's that new Gauntlet that might cause more than a few wrinkles in the timeline of the franchise.

 

The biggest problem, of course, is the fact that half of the galaxy's population was brought back five years after the snap. This means that the events of Thanos' snap are not undone, and the world is forced to deal with these people's return more than five years after they first disappeared.

 

In the movie, it's an epic climax. After the Hulk manages to harness the power of the stones and bring back the dead, all of the heroes are assembled by Doctor Strange and brought to an epic confrontation with Thanos at the end of the film. But there are even more questions to be had.

 

Directors Joe and Anthony Russo were adamant in saying that the film would not be undone, promising that the stakes of Avengers: Infinity War would continue to have an impact on the Marvel Cinematic Universe. They weren't lying!

 

The final scenes of Avengers: Endgame attempt to paint a picture for the broader world, but that will likely be fleshed out in future films. After all, Spider-Man: Far From Home is set to come out in just a couple months. But that's a film that might reveal the biggest problem. Five years later, Spider-Man is revived and manages to help defeat Thanos. But with half of the population being wiped out, Peter Parker is not the only person who disappeared for five years. The end of the film shows Peter meeting with his best friend Ned in the hallway of their high school, heavily implying that Ned was missing for that period of time as well. But Ned cannot be the only one, as the trailers for Spider-Man: Far From Home have shown the kids on vacation with many of their classmates.

 

It is a good point, in that for 5 years all these people were missing, somewhere, and now...

Spoiler

Now they all just pop back into existence?! Without question?

 

[Bosco685]

 

[chezmtghut]

[chezmtghut]

1 hour ago, Bosco685 said:

Timeline chart again.

 

Spoiler

After all of the time shenanigans in Endgame, I would imagine Kang the Conqueror coming into the fold.

I see the timeline shifts differently. I consider unlimited streams of the same timelines in a multiverse where each diverging point creates a difference reality within that particular universe & not necessarily to the one that we exist in.

 

Edited April 28, 2019 by chezmtghut

[bane]

I thought it was fantastic!

Edited April 28, 2019 by bane

[fantastic_four]

The more I try to figure out the time travel elements of the film the more it seems to unravel.  This is why I grew to hate time travel movies over the years...stories and plot elements tend to fall apart when you use it to drive a story.  I was skeptical of the snap at the end of Infinity War, but that film didn't have to clean up the mess.  This one did, and right now I don't like how it did it.  LOVED the action, LOVED the heart, didn't like the time ideas.  Infinity War is in the top ten superhero films, but right now I lean towards this one not cracking the top 20.

[Bosco685]

Everyone is going to see this film. Everyone!

 

[Straw-Man]

35 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

The more I try to figure out the time travel elements of the film the more it seems to unravel.  This is why I grew to hate time travel movies over the years...stories and plot elements tend to fall apart when you use it to drive a story.  I was skeptical of the snap at the end of Infinity War, but that film didn't have to clean up the mess.  This one did, and right now I don't like how it did it.  LOVED the action, LOVED the heart, didn't like the time ideas.  Infinity War is in the top ten superhero films, but right now I lean towards this one not cracking the top 20.

they're going to have a good deal of spare cash to get the epa in there for more extensive clean-up.  i think it's going to end up ok for all of us.

[Bosco685]

This is so massive, it is crazy to think how much money this film is going to make in the end just with China alone.

[Bosco685]

4 minutes ago, Straw-Man said:

they're going to have a good deal of spare cash to get the epa in there for more extensive clean-up.  i think it's going to end up ok for all of us.

Plus, there'll be that America's Butt Cut bluray. 

[Straw-Man]

Just now, Bosco685 said:

Plus, there'll be that America's Butt Cut bluray. 

they'll just be assking for trouble with that marketing ploy!!

[fantastic_four]

8 minutes ago, Straw-Man said:

they're going to have a good deal of spare cash to get the epa in there for more extensive clean-up.

Does the EPA:

Spoiler

Have a way to resurrect Tony Stark?  Or de-age Cap?  What's next, a reboot?  In the 80s and 90s, the killing of Superman and Phoenix and subsequent resurrection of both cemented one of the worst stereotypes of comics--that the death of a character is meaningless because you know they will always find a way to bring them back.  Feige has managed to avoid that until now...so what's next?  A reboot?

 

[Bosco685]

China's estimate went up.