AVENGERS 4: INFINITY GAUNTLET (5/3/19)
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2 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

That would be a fantastic poll.

"Would 'Snow White' be successful nowadays?" - YES NO

I'm 100% convinced they were successful at that point in time. Nowadays, not as much because of cinema advancements. That doesn't make them any less relevant.

The poll would have to specifically ask:

Do you believe "classic films name" or a new cutting edge remake would sell as many tickets today as the original did back in the year it was released (the # of tickets sold during it's run would have to be presented as well)?

If we calculate BOM adjusted price on GwtW @ 1.82 billion it would calculate out to 202.5 million tickets sold at today's $9 per ticket. I would think this is roughly how they came up with that #, but I'm not sure exactly what year the calculation is from. So the poll should read:

Do you believe the original GwtW or a cutting edge remake would sell 200M+ tickets domestically in 2019, like the classic did in it's original run?

Yes

No

That's the only way to determine if people actually believe those inflated prices could be a reality today, since those prices are based on ticket sales. You keep diverging from this original point.

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1 minute ago, chezmtghut said:

The poll would have to specifically ask:

Do you believe "classic films name" or a new cutting edge remake would sell as many tickets today as the original did back in the year it was released (the # of tickets sold during it's run would have to be presented as well)?

If we calculate BOM adjusted price on GwtW @ 1.82 billion it would calculate out to 202.5 million tickets sold at today's $9 per ticket. I would think this is roughly how they came up with that #, but I'm not sure exactly what year the calculation is from. So the poll should read:

Do you believe the original GwtW or a cutting edge remake would sell 200M+ tickets domestically in 2019, like the classic did in it's original run?

Yes

No

That's the only way to determine if people actually believe those inflated prices could be a reality today, since those prices are based on ticket sales. You keep diverging from this original point.

'That's the only way' is your analysis approach. But does it apply realistic criteria? Here's where the approach would be flawed.

1) Audience expectation changes: Stories of old versus now have gone through drastic maturity shifts. Something like West Side Story where it recognized the American Melting Pot leading to youth divisions would be treated as pointing out the obvious nowadays.

2) Film messaging relevance changes: When considering historic films such as The Graduate which was relevant for its time wouldn't be as impactful nowadays as you don't have the same culture crisis taking place. Nowadays, it is more about the political shifts taking place, environmentalism or even societal norms changing. So to bring it forward to 2019 and program 'Look - it failed' would be far from shocking.

3) Film technology changes: Bringing forward Fantasia, Snow White, Sleeping Beauty or another older animated film (more modern productions like Lion King or Finding Nemo would still bring the fire) in their current format would have an ancient cinema feel to them. Where as fresh stories told using current animated technology they would have a fighting chance. So there would be disclaimers concerning modernizing the content some. The Disney live reimaginations have worked wonderfully in most cases because it bringing old stories back, which parents know in advance from their childhood experiences and wanting to get their kids in on the experience. Different situation with those, though the nostalgia comes into play with the adult impact.

Sorry, but there are even more flaws in assuming 'make old movies fight it out with new movies' going beyond recognizing their successes of old and just comparing the breath of their financial mass in modern currency.

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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

'That's the only way' is your analysis approach. But does it apply realistic criteria? Here's where the approach would be flawed.

1) Audience expectation changes: Stories of old versus now have gone through drastic maturity shifts. Something like West Side Story where it recognized the American Melting Pot leading to youth divisions would be treated as pointing out the obvious nowadays.

2) Film messaging relevance changes: When considering historic films such as The Graduate which was relevant for its time wouldn't be as impactful nowadays as you don't have the same culture crisis taking place. Nowadays, it is more about the political shifts taking place, environmentalism or even societal norms changing. So to bring it forward to 2019 and program 'Look - it failed' would be far from shocking.

3) Film technology changes: Bringing forward Fantasia, Snow White, Sleeping Beauty or another older animated film (more modern productions like Lion King or Finding Nemo would still bring the fire) in their current format would have an ancient cinema feel to them. Where as fresh stories told using current animated technology they would have a fighting chance. So there would be disclaimers concerning modernizing the content some. The Disney live reimaginations have worked wonderfully in most cases because it bringing old stories back, which parents know in advance from their childhood experiences and wanting to get their kids in on the experience. Different situation with those, though the nostalgia comes into play with the adult impact.

Sorry, but there are even more flaws in assuming 'make old movies fight it out with new movies' going beyond recognizing their successes of old and just comparing the breath of their financial mass in modern currency.

Not sure how calculating old ticket sales at current prices is realistic either. Beauty & the Beast was more successful now than the animated version was in 1991, so it's not impossible for a classic remake to gross the adjusted prices today, but it's highly unlikely in most cases. Aladdin & Lion King might be exceptions as well. Face it, the only way those films could make their adjusted price is to sell the same amount of tickets today & most wouldn't.

Edited by chezmtghut

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8 minutes ago, chezmtghut said:

Not sure how calculating old ticket sales at current prices is a realistic either. Beauty & the Beast was more successful now than the animated version was in 1991, so it's not impossible for a classic remake to gross the adjusted prices today, but it's highly unlikely in most cases. Aladdin & Lion King might be exceptions as well. Face it, the only way those films could make their adjusted price is to sell the same amount of tickets today & most wouldn't.

Of course these older movies would be challenged making the same money in modern times. Face it, that's not a logical analysis approach.

They were relevant at a point in time, which is how they are recognized how huge when comparing to modern times by adjusting for inflation. Which MANY sites and cinema analyst utilize extensively.

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12 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

Of course these older movies would be challenged making the same money in modern times. Face it, that's not a logical analysis approach.

They were relevant at a point in time, which is how they are recognized how huge when comparing to modern times by adjusting for inflation. Which MANY sites and cinema analyst utilize extensively.

Neither is the inflated adjustments. It's been proven that cutting edge modern remakes could still do well but that doesn't mean every film can reach their adjusted price. I get why they use the inflation but it's not logical either. Those films made what they did. Would it be sensible to say someone who sold an Avengers 1 CGC 9.0 for $6k in 2004 made the $38k it sells for now after inflation? Obviously not.

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3 minutes ago, chezmtghut said:

Neither is the inflated adjustments. It's been proven that cutting edge modern remakes could still do well but that doesn't mean every film can reach their adjusted price. I get why they use the inflation but it's not logical either. Those films made what they did. Would it be sensible to say someone who sold an Avengers 1 CGC 9.0 for $6k in 2004 made the $38k it sells for now after inflation? Obviously not.

Not the same analysis. Not at all. But you realize that. Like even Box Office Mojo notes, applying adjusted numbers is not an exact science. But the intent is much clearer than trying to force-modify an older film to determine if it would succeed in modern times.

Quote

ADJUSTING FOR TICKET PRICE INFLATION: This is a helpful tool for converting box office earnings into a standard unit of measurement to help you better judge a movie's popularity and compare it to other movies released years or decades apart.

There is no solid way to do this, other than comparing like dollar results. That's all an adjusted box office offers up.

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Finally, someone responds about the movie.

 

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It is next to impossible to normalize older films ( including ones considered classics) in modern terms. Trying to equate what these films would do in a modern multiplex is essentially impossible because too many variables and social values have changed.  Here is a brief list in no real order of the top of my head....

 

1. Number of films released

2. number of movie screens

3. Social values ( a truly massive and diverse catagory)

4. General taste

5. Competing media

6. Social media

7. Advertising 

8. Globalization 

9. Ethnic diversity 

10. Target groups

11. Technology 

 

Even as I start to make a list, it quickly becomes apparent how impossible the task is. The only thing we can reasonably do is look at how the movie was received, reviewed, and accepted in its time. We need to try and see it within its  context without filtering through a modern lens.

 

Even attempting to take out current films and projecting how they may have done 30, 50 or more years ago is impossible.  What we view as groundbreaking, important, and successful today taken out of our time. May have resulted in a flop.

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4 hours ago, Kramerica said:

Yeah, it was amazing. I started crying like a little girl the moment they started playing Dear Mr Fantasy and blubbered throughout. Just awesome filmmaking and I feel blessed that I got to see this in my time :applause: Even for 2 directors I think it's very impressive what they did. Hats off to the screenwriters as well. Sh*t, hands off to craft services too and everyone else involved with making this movie.

We caught it today and I was surprised that it melded well with Mother's Day …. my Mom's been gone for almost 20 years, so several scenes really resonated. It was a long movie but seemed smooth. The CGI has been getting better and better …. this was especially evident with Hulk. It also seems that the 3-D effects are evolving too. Things have come a long way with Marvel …. Stan was right, this was the future, I just never expected the product to become so polished in my lifetime. I remember as a kid in the 60's wishing they had Marvel toys for us, I never dreamed that live action movies would follow. We caught the afternoon show and the theater was only about half full, a lot of families. It was barely PG-13 which I thought was good, the violence and what not doesn't have to be over the top to make a good movie. GOD BLESS....

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)(thumbsu

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Only about $300 million away from Avatar. Should topple that IMO (not that I know Jack-s^&* about box office). Is $3 billion still probable..?

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Oh. I like this idea.

 

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10 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

Oh. I like this idea.

 

I feel like he should've saw Natasha, if anyone, because she sacrificed everything to save her family and the universe.

I'm glad they cut it altogether, just because of how packed the movie already is, and how ambiguous that Soul Stone connection would be P2P.

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3 hours ago, TwoPiece said:

Only about $300 million away from Avatar. Should topple that IMO (not that I know Jack-s^&* about box office). Is $3 billion still probable..?

It’s possible, but highly unlikely unless it drops roughly 35% weekly over the next couple of months. Endgame made 1.23B by 1st Sunday, 2.18B by 2nd Sunday & 2.48B by it’s 3rd Sunday. This past week is down nearly 70% worldwide with very little competition. So while I still believe it has a chance to pass Avatar with less than 50% weekly drops, it won’t make 3 billion. 

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Spoiler

They cut so much from this movie, because initially, the explanation for Thanos destroying the Infinity Stones was his temptation to undo everything by way of continually communicating with Young Gamora in the Soul Stone. So, he wasn't destroying the Stones to prevent anyone else from using them, but primarily himself.

It still makes sense in the context of the movie itself, but deeper connections were cut, just to get this thing down to 3 hours.

Don't know if we need to keep using Spoiler tags..?

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19 hours ago, chezmtghut said:

I'm 100% convinced those classics would not sell as many tickets today as they did back then. It would be interesting to see a poll on the topic though.

I'm 100% (absolutely sure) if the audience back then saw Avengers: Endgame they would jump out the window thinking a real alien invasion was happening.  If you think Orson Wells messed them up, this movie would melt their faces.

 

Plus I don't think you're giving people today enough credit about liking cheesy movies.  Nobody thought watching a ship sink for an hour would be a hit.

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9 minutes ago, AnthonyTheAbyss said:

I'm 100% (absolutely sure) if the audience back then saw Avengers: Endgame they would jump out the window thinking a real alien invasion was happening.  If you think Orson Wells messed them up, this movie would melt their faces.

 

Plus I don't think you're giving people today enough credit about liking cheesy movies.  Nobody thought watching a ship sink for an hour would be a hit.

Probably. It was a different market back then. Ticket sales just aren’t the same these days. That’s the point. There are exceptions though, Beauty & the Beast being one example I can think of. 

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