AVENGERS 4: INFINITY GAUNTLET (5/3/19)
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On 5/22/2019 at 2:47 PM, TwoPiece said:

If Tony doesn't send those characters "back", then a branch in time (alternate reality) is created. They can only clip the branches by replacing what was momentarily changed. That's why Cap had to return all 6 Stones and Mjolnir.

If this rumor/whatever is true, then only 2 realities exist. If not, there are as many as 4 other realities now in the MCU.

I thought Tony had said - we do not mess with the past several years since the original decimation as he did not want to undo his time since then (i.e., him having a daughter) - so if he reset them back to the original time wouldn't his daughter cease to exist?  This whole thing is somewhat confusing - but as long as they use the "alternate timelines/realities" as a way to introduce the X-Men and Silver Surfer I am ok with it :)

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18 minutes ago, Chillax23 said:

I thought Tony had said - we do not mess with the past several years since the original decimation as he did not want to undo his time since then (i.e., him having a daughter) - so if he reset them back to the original time wouldn't his daughter cease to exist?  This whole thing is somewhat confusing - but as long as they use the "alternate timelines/realities" as a way to introduce the X-Men and Silver Surfer I am ok with it :)

It is a little confusing, and even more when the Russo Brothers and then the screenwriters differ at certain points on the rules. IGN did a video on this based on the movie explanations. Which then shows where certain details causes these timeline fractures.

In a way, once you walk through all the events, @TwoPiece is right about the various fractured timelines.

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Chillax23 said:

I thought Tony had said - we do not mess with the past several years since the original decimation as he did not want to undo his time since then (i.e., him having a daughter) - so if he reset them back to the original time wouldn't his daughter cease to exist?  This whole thing is somewhat confusing - but as long as they use the "alternate timelines/realities" as a way to introduce the X-Men and Silver Surfer I am ok with it :)

That was regarding the Prime timeline. Since Thanos and Co. came to the future from 2014, they created a branch in time. If Stark doesn't return them, then that branch reality still exists. They needed to eliminate as many alternate-realities as possible.

Edit: I didn't truly understand the type of time travel they were discussing until I saw Endgame the 3rd time, and even then, I don't fully understand it right now.

Edited by TwoPiece

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30 minutes ago, TwoPiece said:

That was regarding the Prime timeline. Since Thanos and Co. came to the future from 2014, they created a branch in time. If Stark doesn't return them, then that branch reality still exists. They needed to eliminate as many alternate-realities as possible.

Edit: I didn't truly understand the type of time travel they were discussing until I saw Endgame the 3rd time, and even then, I don't fully understand it right now.

They don't complete understand it either when there are differing creative opinions if Steve lived in a different timeline or not.

‘Avengers: Endgame’ Directors & Writers Disagree on Captain America’s MCU Timeline

By creating its own unique rules (which is totally okay so as to control the story direction), the Endgame creative team may have over-complicated the topic.

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1 minute ago, Bosco685 said:

They don't complete understand it either when there are differing creative opinions if Steve lived in a different timeline or not.

‘Avengers: Endgame’ Directors & Writers Disagree on Captain America’s MCU Timeline

By creating its own unique rules (which is totally okay so as to control the story direction), the Endgame creative team may have over-complicated the topic.

Can't watch the video at work... Who's saying what? Are the Russos saying that his life with Peggy fits the Prime timeline? Are they trying to say that Endgame doesn't cause 2 separate realities? 'Cause that wouldn't make sense.

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12 minutes ago, TwoPiece said:

Can't watch the video at work... Who's saying what? Are the Russos saying that his life with Peggy fits the Prime timeline? Are they trying to say that Endgame doesn't cause 2 separate realities? 'Cause that wouldn't make sense.

All agree there are two Captain America characters.

Russo Brothers: Alternate reality theory, in that Old Cap had to make another jump into the original timeline to give Sam the shield.

Screenwriters (Markus and McFeely): There is no new timeline. Old Cap existed at the same time as New Cap, and the former has been in the background as the latter has been involved with Avengers: Endgame.

 

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Just now, Bosco685 said:

All agree there are two Captain America characters.

Russo Brothers: Alternate reality theory, in that Old Cap had to make another jump into the original timeline to give Sam the shield.

Screenwriters (Markus and McFeely): There is no new timeline. Old Cap existed at the same time as New Cap, and the former has been in the background as the latter has been involved with Avengers: Endgame.

 

There's no way there isn't a 2nd reality. It just defies all logic. I'm also glad that they admit Cap made "another jump" to return, because that was what I already assumed, but a lot of people don't know how/why. I just figured he used a Quantum Tunnel from that branch reality.

Just another reason why directors > writers (*cough* Dawn of Justice). lol

I really like what Markus and McFeely have done but what they're saying just isn't possible within the constraints that they, themselves, wrote.

Also, as Far From Home Trailer #2 shows (if they're being transparent), there definitely is at least 1 alternate reality.

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4 minutes ago, TwoPiece said:

Also, as Far From Home Trailer #2 shows (if they're being transparent), there definitely is at least 1 alternate reality.

Emergency Awesome says 616 is definitely the main universe. But with Mysterio, he could be lying about the 833 (Spider-UK/William Braddock) details.

But with the Sinister 6, there's definitely something going on that all the Elementals are now in 616.

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1 minute ago, Bosco685 said:

Emergency Awesome says 616 is definitely the main universe. But with Mysterio, he could be lying about the 833 (Spider-UK/William Braddock) details.

But with the Sinister 6, there's definitely something going on that all the Elementals are now in 616.

Considering that Fury is 'working' with Mysterio, I am assuming that he's manipulating them as to the details about the alternate reality. I think that the multiverse is real (as I have said it's "logical" too many times lol), but I think he's a villain from that reality trying to play hero on Earth-616.

It's kinda how I took a puzzle piece the other day, and after they completed almost all of it, I showed up with the last piece to 'save the day'. It's what villains do.

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8 minutes ago, TwoPiece said:

Considering that Fury is 'working' with Mysterio, I am assuming that he's manipulating them as to the details about the alternate reality. I think that the multiverse is real (as I have said it's "logical" too many times lol), but I think he's a villain from that reality trying to play hero on Earth-616.

It's kinda how I took a puzzle piece the other day, and after they completed almost all of it, I showed up with the last piece to 'save the day'. It's what villains do.

Wait, are you saying the Multiverse is an MCU reality? About time!

(:

I wonder what Sony and Disney have planned, post-Far From Home.

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1 minute ago, Bosco685 said:

Wait, are you saying the Multiverse is an MCU reality? About time!

(:

I wonder what Sony and Disney have planned, post-Far From Home.

I wonder when Feige's gonna hit us with the post-Phase 3 docket (unsure if there will be a "Phase 4" according to some rumors).

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

It is a little confusing, and even more when the Russo Brothers and then the screenwriters differ at certain points on the rules. IGN did a video on this based on the movie explanations. Which then shows where certain details causes these timeline fractures.

In a way, once you walk through all the events, @TwoPiece is right about the various fractured timelines.

I've hated time travel stories since I first experienced them as a teenager.  They screw EVERYTHING up with continuity and become excessively complex in working out the multiple universes that diverge once past events are altered.  I really wish they hadn't done this.

I'm also disappointed that they got rid of major characters.  The stereotype with comics is that you KNOW major character deaths are never permanent, so why use them if everyone knows that?  My first thought when I saw it was that Feige has jumped the shark, and as far as I can tell that's exactly what happened.  I hope I'm wrong and he pulls out some major card to tie it all together in a satisfying way, but I can't imagine that he will.  Particularly since he just pulled out the lame time travel card to un-do the snap.  :frown:

It's easy to fix all of this--if Thor had gone for the head, none of these lame plot devices had to happen.  :sorry:  Or preferrably you keep Thanos alive since ideally you'd use him again at some point over the next century of Marvel movies.  Why is Feige liberally killing off major characters like this?  ???

Edited by fantastic_four

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27 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

I've hated time travel stories since I first experienced them as a teenager.  They screw EVERYTHING up with continuity and become excessively complex in working out the multiple universes that diverge once past events are altered.  I really wish they hadn't done this.

I'm also disappointed that they got rid of major characters.  The stereotype with comics is that you KNOW major character deaths are never permanent, so why use them if everyone knows that?  My first thought when I saw it was that Feige has jumped the shark, and as far as I can tell that's exactly what happened.  I hope I'm wrong and he pulls out some major card to tie it all together in a satisfying way, but I can't imagine that he will.  Particularly since he just pulled out the lame time travel card to un-do the snap.  :frown:

It's easy to fix all of this--if Thor had gone for the head, none of these lame plot devices had to happen.  :sorry:  Or preferrably you keep Thanos alive since ideally you'd use him again at some point over the next century of Marvel movies.  Why is Feige liberally killing off major characters like this?  ???

lol wut

If they didn't kill off any major characters - no one would bother investing their time/money into the MCU anymore. There had to be a payoff. There had to be lasting stakes. Thor didn't go for the head because he wanted his "I told you so" moment. The entire theme of Infinity War and Endgame was sacrifice. Some characters did it (Iron Man) and others didn't (Cap). Once Cap was willing to do "whatever it takes", he was worthy of wielding Mjolnir. Iron Man was always willing to do "whatever it takes" and it payed off for him in the very end when he sacrificed everything to save everyone.

The movies are not the comics (thankfully). Deaths will be permanent. We were told that much after Infinity War by Feige. Vision is dead. Black Widow is dead. Iron Man is dead. They're not coming back. The actors don't want to play these characters forever. It's different from being able to fabricate whatever you want in a book or in a cartoon. Liberties weren't taken with these characters. Storytelling, beginnings and endings, are all important to successful movies and franchises.

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Just a head's up Twopiece--I've had you on ignore for months.  You're rude and argumentative and a waste of time to read because 80% of what you write is motivated by ego as opposed to discussion driven by curiosity.  Sometimes I'll expand your posts to see if that's changed, and in this case I expanded your reply to me, saw the word "wut," realized you're the same arse you've always been, and collapsed it.

When this was the only forum I read I didn't use the ignore function for most of the last 15 years and used to encourage others to put ME on ignore instead, but now I read two or three forums daily so I use ignore with people not worth the time to read.

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9 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

Just a head's up Twopiece--I've had you on ignore for months.  You're rude and argumentative and a waste of time to read because 80% of what you write is motivated by ego as opposed to discussion driven by curiosity.  Sometimes I'll expand your posts to see if that's changed, and in this case I expanded your reply to me, saw the word "wut," realized you're the same arse you've always been, and collapsed it.

When this was the only forum I read I didn't use the ignore function for most of the last 15 years and used to encourage others to put ME on ignore instead, but now I read two or three forums daily so I use ignore with people not worth the time to read.

I'm not sure what your definition of "ego" is, but close to 0% of my posts are motivated by such.

You may want to read up on inferring positive intent vs inferring negative intent.

I just think it's funny that you expect(ed) Marvel to not kill off any major characters. Must be the type of person who brought their 10-year olds to the theater and expecting their hearts not to break. Marvel Studios is more logical than that.

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11 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

Just a head's up Twopiece--I've had you on ignore for months.  You're rude and argumentative and a waste of time to read because 80% of what you write is motivated by ego as opposed to discussion driven by curiosity.  Sometimes I'll expand your posts to see if that's changed, and in this case I expanded your reply to me, saw the word "wut," realized you're the same arse you've always been, and collapsed it.

When this was the only forum I read I didn't use the ignore function for most of the last 15 years and used to encourage others to put ME on ignore instead, but now I read two or three forums daily so I use ignore with people not worth the time to read.

Also, I couldn't really care less about you ignoring me or your reasoning for doing such. If you think it matters a lick to me, you're wrong, and it's not going to change anything. I would suggest adjusting your outlook of posts/posters. It goes a long way.

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The boards really are the pits these days 

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That 5 year jump is a mistake 

not sure why people don’t recognize it 

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1 minute ago, jsilverjanet said:

That 5 year jump is a mistake 

not sure why people don’t recognize it 

Can you explain why you think this?

The whole rat/mouse sequence is an anomaly that they suggest would take 5 years to live out. They have that built-in 1/14,000,605 successful future explanation.

Do I like the 5-year jump? Not really. I understand why they put it in, though. They also used it to help us understand the Quantum Realm time discrepancy. Could they have used 1 year and 1 hour? Sure, but I think they wanted the scope to be larger than that to show us that the distinction can be very great.

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