AVENGERS 4: INFINITY GAUNTLET (5/3/19)
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4 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

Not that you are confused with this opinion. But if you look at such films, there is a tale told within the stories.

  • Superman: An outsider adopted into a world not his own, and coming to be its symbol of hope.
  • Batman: A traumatized boy that comes to strengthen his abilities so as to protect others from such threats as he also learns to expand his trust in others.
  • Captain America: A man that through his personal sacrifice struggles to better others around him as an example.
  • Spider-Man: A kid that through bad decisions suffered substantially, yet through his mistakes became someone always working to make up for his early mistakes which sacrifices his personal life.

To me, these are more than BANG, BOOM, POW movies because they bring entertainment along with fictional examples of how people can be better than where they started out. Especially in the stronger films, where the human side rings through.

Infinity War and Endgame are thematic examples of sacrifice, change, family, and boundaries, both sides of the coin.

Thanos sacrificed everything he had to complete his goal. Tony Stark sacrificed himself to save everything he had.

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:
  • Superman: An outsider adopted into a world not his own, and coming to be its symbol of hope.
  • Batman: A traumatized boy that comes to strengthen his abilities so as to protect others from such threats as he also learns to expand his trust in others.
  • Captain America: A man that through his personal sacrifice struggles to better others around him as an example.
  • Spider-Man: A kid that through bad decisions suffered substantially, yet through his mistakes became someone always working to make up for his early mistakes which sacrifices his personal life.

So conflict.  Yes, that's a universal theme, but it's also the bare minimum for a semi-compelling film for adults.  You're going to find conflict in the vast majority of compelling films, so Oscar voters are looking for far more innovative themes than that.

Think about every book or movie you were assigned to read or watch in school and try to think about why you were made to read or watch them.  That's the type of fiction you're going to see the Academy nominate.  If you never liked any of that stuff they made you read in school enough to figure out why they made you read it, you'll also never understand how the Academy members vote for films, either.

Edited by fantastic_four

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2 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

So conflict.  Yes, that's a universal theme, but it's also the bare minimum for a semi-compelling film for adults.  You're going to find conflict in the vast majority of compelling films, so Oscar voters are looking for far more innovative themes than that.

Think about every book or movie you were assigned to read or watch in school and try to think about why you were made to read or watch them.  That's the type of fiction you're going to see the Academy nominate.

Oscar best picture list:

  • 2019 - Green Book: Saw it, and really felt bad for BlacKkKlansman though it is a good story.
  • 2018 - The Shape of Water: A woman falling in love with an amphibian. Can I get my 'cowboys eating pudding' award here?
  • 2017 - Moonlight: Well-deserved.
  • 2016 - Spotlight: Well-deserved.
  • 2015: Birdman: Okay.
  • 2014: 12 Years a Slave: Well-deserved.
  • 2013 - Argo: Well-deserved.

 If you look at the recent track record, there is room for these 'comic book movies' at the table.

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

Oscar best picture list:

  • 2019 - Green Book: Saw it, and really felt bad for BlacKkKlansman though it is a good story.
  • 2018 - The Shape of Water: A woman falling in love with an amphibian. Can I get my 'cowboys eating pudding' award here?
  • 2017 - Moonlight: Well-deserved.
  • 2016 - Spotlight: Well-deserved.
  • 2015: Birdman: Okay.
  • 2014: 12 Years a Slave: Well-deserved.
  • 2013 - Argo: Well-deserved.

 If you look at the recent track record, there is room for these 'comic book movies' at the table.

Shape of Water and Birdman are BOTH art.  The theme was the point, not entertainment.  You may not either liked or even identified the theme, but it existed.

Theme isn't the point of ANY Marvel movie.  It's entertainment.  There's no room at the table; it's a different table.  Fiction teachers in 30 years won't be assigning Endgame to their students as required viewing.  And I'd be pissed if Feige tried to sit down at that table because that's not what the hero genre is about.  He could let one of the directors do it from time to time I suppose, that'd be fine, but the headliners will always stay true to the hero genre because that's what people want today just as they've wanted it for millennia before us.

Edited by fantastic_four

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Just now, fantastic_four said:

Shape of Water and Birdman are BOTH art.  The theme was the point, not entertainment.  You may not either liked or even identified the theme, but it existed.

Theme isn't the point of ANY Marvel movie.  It's entertainment.  There's no room at the table; it's a different table.  And I'd be pissed if Feige tried to sit down at that table because that's not what the hero genre is about.

That's your opinion and expectation. As many decades as comic books have been around, there are some really emotional stories throughout even outside of Marvel and DC.

  • James O'Barr's The Crow
  • Brian Vaughan's Pride of Baghdad
  • Brian Vaughan's Saga
  • Joe Hill's Locke & Key
  • David Mazzucchelli's Asterios Polyp

The risk is all comic book stories are then lumped into 'superhero genre stories' and then left out. And that especially I have a concern with.

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

The risk is all comic book stories are then lumped into 'superhero genre stories'

You're saying that as if it's the critics doing it.  It's the writers doing it.  They're free to write stories with significant and innovative social and individual themes if they want, they just don't because that's not what fans of the hero genre want.  We're in it for the fantasy; without that, it's an entirely different genre and one that fans would think is boring or preachy.  And it's the fantasy that removes it so significantly from the context of normal life that the themes conveyed barely apply to us in our lives aside from the key component of ALL heroic fiction--to inspire us to stand up against injustice and help others.

Edited by fantastic_four

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One thing to note is that it's controversial to even cover the classic heroic myths like the Iliad, Odyssey, Beowulf, or the Arthurian legend in literature classes.  It's widely done, but LOTS of teachers and curriculum managers don't think it's important to cover classic heroic myths because they think kids get enough hero worship in all of the media they willingly participate in.

The reason it's not at all controversial to cover those is for at least two huge reasons--one, it teaches a kid that heroic myths are both legitimate and important, and two, it teaches us that the genre isn't new or fleeting, it's a genre that has persisted throughout the history of human civilization.

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3 hours ago, fantastic_four said:

You're saying that as if it's the critics doing it.  It's the writers doing it.  They're free to write stories with significant and innovative social and individual themes if they want, they just don't because that's not what fans of the hero genre want.  We're in it for the fantasy; without that, it's an entirely different genre and one that fans would think is boring or preachy.  And it's the fantasy that removes it so significantly from the context of normal life that the themes conveyed barely apply to us in our lives aside from the key component of ALL heroic fiction--to inspire us to stand up against injustice and help others.

You do realize we are saying close to the same thing, right?

If a future DC or Marvel or Sony film based on these characters is written in a way it tells a strong story, then it should be given a chance to be considered. Not dismissed because it is another of those 'Avengers movies'. It's as straightforward as that.

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Second lowest Day 41 of the four Avengers films, but only $67.5M away.

DC_MCU_BO190607a.thumb.PNG.bf6156a18dc382bae92e2f8d283d4922.PNG

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25 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

Second lowest Day 41 of the four Avengers films, but only $67.5M away.

DC_MCU_BO190607a.thumb.PNG.bf6156a18dc382bae92e2f8d283d4922.PNG

At least 'Murica beat Avatar. Good taste there.

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19 minutes ago, TwoPiece said:

At least 'Murica beat Avatar. Good taste there.

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:insane:

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7 minutes ago, TwoPiece said:

MatureBlackIcefish-size_restricted.gif

emotion01.gif.05a5e910ee7fabdb6d1c1e9b3b388215.gif

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:whatthe:

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Posted (edited)

Not sure if he went for 4 back to back viewing today but that guy is on 106 in his latest tweet & Endgame is an estimated 57.5M behind Avatar now. Should still be about 30M short unless they reissue it around Christmas like they did Avatar in 2010 with a special edition, bringing in an extra 33.2M.

Edited by chezmtghut

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2 minutes ago, rjpb said:

The only people I've ever met who want to watch the same movie 100 times in a month are two years old. 

xD

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38 minutes ago, rjpb said:

The only people I've ever met who want to watch the same movie 100 times in a month are two years old. 

OMG, that made me laugh. :roflmao:

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On 6/6/2019 at 5:57 AM, fantastic_four said:

So conflict.  Yes, that's a universal theme, but it's also the bare minimum for a semi-compelling film for adults.  You're going to find conflict in the vast majority of compelling films, so Oscar voters are looking for far more innovative themes than that.

Think about every book or movie you were assigned to read or watch in school and try to think about why you were made to read or watch them.  That's the type of fiction you're going to see the Academy nominate.  If you never liked any of that stuff they made you read in school enough to figure out why they made you read it, you'll also never understand how the Academy members vote for films, either.

There is precedence though...Return of the King.  That film only won because it was viewed as the culmination of work on 3 movies.  Infinity War/Endgame is similar in scope imo.  While it certainly lacks the depth of the typical Best Picture winner, if Return of the King is worthy of a nomination, then Endgame at the very least deserves the same respect.

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