"It's not for sale... unless the price is right" 2 2

[Pete Marino]

I just get irked when someone asks if something is for sale, I say not really, but you can make an offer.  Then I hear crickets.

I guess I've been collecting in some capacity about 10 years now (I've gotten old!) and someone has been able to get something out of my collection once that was NFS by inquiring.

[Bronty]

37 minutes ago, Pete Marino said:

I just get irked when someone asks if something is for sale, I say not really, but you can make an offer.  Then I hear crickets.

I guess I've been collecting in some capacity about 10 years now (I've gotten old!) and someone has been able to get something out of my collection once that was NFS by inquiring.

I so agree with all of you guys.     This sort of stuff is what I was getting at when I suggested time not be wasted.      If you're the buyer, make your offer and make it good, or go on about your business elsewhere.

An annoying one I'm dealing with at the moment is a buyer that asks for a piece, time is spent, give the guy a price against my better judgement, he accepts, and then no payment or further communication.   

If you don't have the money to back up the pieces you "buy", why are you even emailing people?

Edited April 26, 2017 by Bronty

[Weird Paper]

1 hour ago, comix4fun said:

It wasn't him this time, but I see what you mean....

I tend to stop communicating with people if I think it's going in that direction before they can go Full-Keif on me

I was guessing that it was somebody who might have been lost...

[Mr. Machismo]

I've gotten maybe four people in the past two weeks ask to buy something that's listed NFS and when I've asked them to shoot me an offer, they've all gone quiet. Except one who offered 1/3rd FMV after I explained to him how the onus is on him to provide a number. 

[F For Fake]

2 hours ago, Weird Paper said:

My collection is a collection. It's not inventory. If somebody asks about a piece, I tell them I'm not actively trying to sell it, but they are welcome to make an offer. I've accepted such offers before -- both cash and trade offers -- though not frequently. If that offer is market value, or "I know from auction records you paid this much, so that's what I'll offer you" forget it. Chances are, I bought it for market value, and unless I've soured on it for some reason, or deemed it no longer viable in my collection (upgrade, etc.), there's no reason other than financial desperation that I'd turn around and sell it for that.

This is my basic approach. If I have an item marked NFS, that means I'm not looking to sell it. I like it, I plan on keeping it. So if someone comes to me wanting to buy, then it's up to them to make an offer, and it would have to be a pretty good one in order to get me to budge. EVERYTHING has a price, even those pieces we never plan to sell. It's just a matter of how ridiculous the money has to get before we decide to let it go. But yes, if you're a buyer looking at a "NFS" piece, then you'd better come correct.

[artistlost]

4 minutes ago, F For Fake said:

This is my basic approach. If I have an item marked NFS, that means I'm not looking to sell it. I like it, I plan on keeping it. So if someone comes to me wanting to buy, then it's up to them to make an offer, and it would have to be a pretty good one in order to get me to budge. EVERYTHING has a price, even those pieces we never plan to sell. It's just a matter of how ridiculous the money has to get before we decide to let it go. But yes, if you're a buyer looking at a "NFS" piece, then you'd better come correct.

Couldn't agree more to this as both a owner of a NFS piece and someone who is looking to acquire a NFS piece

[SquareChaos]

I'm always hesitant to bother someone that has listed something as NFS, but I have sent a message or two stating I'd be interested if or when they decide to let go of it. This... I hesitate to call it a 'strategy'... hasn't resulted in any transactions, but it just seemed like the least intrusive way to announce my interest without the potential to make the other side feel like they have to respond and answer a question if they don't want to. 

[Bird]

 

Over the years I have learned that I am happier in making an offer a little high rather than missing out. but that is only possible when you can afford it.

Edited April 26, 2017 by Bird

[Bronty]

1 minute ago, SquareChaos said:

I'm always hesitant to bother someone that has listed something as NFS, but I have sent a message or two stating I'd be interested if or when they decide to let go of it. This... I hesitate to call it a 'strategy'... hasn't resulted in any transactions, but it just seemed like the least intrusive way to announce my interest without the potential to make the other side feel like they have to respond and answer a question if they don't want to. 

Just IMO, but I think you need to come stronger.      Most 'tiptoers' aren't real serious so its hard for the seller to take it seriously and again they aren't actively selling why put the onus on them.    If I am the seller, honestly, the email I want to get is "love the piece, I know its listed as NFS but if you ever change you're mind I'm willing to pay X (where X is over FMV), have a wonderful day.

[SquareChaos]

2 hours ago, Bronty said:

Just IMO, but I think you need to come stronger.      Most 'tiptoers' aren't real serious so its hard for the seller to take it seriously and again they aren't actively selling why put the onus on them.    If I am the seller, honestly, the email I want to get is "love the piece, I know its listed as NFS but if you ever change you're mind I'm willing to pay X (where X is over FMV), have a wonderful day.

Oh I know the higher pressure / $$$$ offer is much more likely to convince someone to part ways with a page, but I guess I'm not as intense about it as some. I'll definitely think about what you're saying, and what many in this thread are saying, and consider changing it up, but honestly I almost never message someone out of the blue on CAF like that. 

[JadeGiant]

Great thread and a good read for anyone new to the hobby and looking to grow their collection through purchases from other collectors that might not sell often. I learned a these lessons through trial and error and I am sure it cost me art along the way. I am thankful for those collectors that took the time to exchange their thoughts on their art - from value to advice on buying etc. I did the drive by offers as a newbie and very few of them resulted in sales. I offered low on pieces but not because I wanted to rip anyone off, rather I didn't want to offer too high and get ripped off myself (that was my thinking). I asked about NFS art and then asked the owner to put a price on the art. The one thing I can add to the posts thus far is to make a genuine attempt to have a conversation with the other collector rather than just buy a piece of art. Sometimes you can do a quick offer and it might get accepted but this is a hobby of many people that are like-minded at least on art so striking up a conversation may pay dividends. Most of the time I don't end up buying the art I inquire about (it is truly NFS, too afar on price, etc.), that is just part of the game, but many exchanges have led to great contacts in the hobby and even some people I have developed a friendship outside of the hobby. I have been sent MANY "hey saw this and thought you might be interested" emails on art that is for sale (and sometimes not listed as such). 

 

On one occasion I struck up a conversation about some art in a collection. I shared that I was a big fan of the art and story and would love to have an example from the series. He didn't have any for sale but asked if any he had would interest me. I through a couple pages his way and he told me which he would be willing to discuss a sale and which were not for sale. We exchanged several emails and I shared interest in a piece and he asked for an offer. I told him I was not versed in the sales of art from the story and wasn't comfortable making an offer but I would put in some research and get back to him. He ended up sharing what he paid for the page. I asked if he would be willing to sell below his cost and he accepted. So, I inquired about an NFS piece, did not make an offer, and asked for the seller to take a loss (oh yeah, I also asked for time payments). Looking back, I should have probably been laughed at and dismissed from his consideration but I was green and new to buying from other's collections but I was honest and transparent and genuine. I wouldn't likely go this route now but it worked out. I reached out several months after the sale and thanked the seller again and told him what the art meant to me. His response was that he made the deal that he did because he could tell that the art was in a good home and that our exchanges were why he did what he did. 

 

Another time I asked about a piece, was told it was not for sale but I could make an offer. I made and offer and the seller replied that he (paraphrasing) offended by my offer. I thanked him for his honesty and gave all my rationale for my offer. Once he saw where the basis of my offer came from he felt better and we continued to talk. Months later I reached out again and upped my offer and we settled on a price that was closer to what he wanted than my initial offer. 

 

Sorry for the long winded post but the point I want to make is that communication is key and laying your cards on the table is the way to go when making a deal IMO. I probably made "mistakes" according to conventional hobby wisdom on both of these pieces (and I could cite additional examples) but the deal was eventually made due to an honest an open exchange. Also, be patient with the newbs, we all had to start somewhere. 

[Panelfan1]

Great thread.

I often get emails enquiring about pieces in my gallery.  As I have been pruning my collection and focusing more .. most of what I got left are keepers, so I ask the person to make an offer. 

If I get a request for an item that I am looking to move out, I usually have a price range that I provide.  For example -  $1000- $1500 range.  Or $300- $500.   This gives the buyer something to work with.  Its tough to make an offer with no context.

The reason I dont offer the range for items I hope to keep - is that I am afraid it will sell.  Sounds crazy now that I am typing this - but its honest.

I try and remove the NFS statement that CAF puts on automatically - because I love interacting with other collectors.  The NFS is too stand-offish. 

On the reverse side - afer seeing all sorts of art show up at auction after seeing it listef on CAF as NFS or permanent collection - I realize that it's worth making offers on these kind of pieces.  You just never know.

[ParamagicFF]

8 hours ago, Panelfan1 said:

Great thread.

I often get emails enquiring about pieces in my gallery.  As I have been pruning my collection and focusing more .. most of what I got left are keepers, so I ask the person to make an offer. 

If I get a request for an item that I am looking to move out, I usually have a price range that I provide.  For example -  $1000- $1500 range.  Or $300- $500.   This gives the buyer something to work with.  Its tough to make an offer with no context.

The reason I dont offer the range for items I hope to keep - is that I am afraid it will sell.  Sounds crazy now that I am typing this - but its honest.

I try and remove the NFS statement that CAF puts on automatically - because I love interacting with other collectors.  The NFS is too stand-offish. 

On the reverse side - afer seeing all sorts of art show up at auction after seeing it listef on CAF as NFS or permanent collection - I realize that it's worth making offers on these kind of pieces.  You just never know.

This is why I have decided to message people politely despite the NFS status. I've seen so many things with a "NFS" status but prices mentioned in the description, or comments. I've also seen the items show up on ebay. I feel like it can't hurt to express interest.

[The Voord]

1 hour ago, ParamagicFF said:

This is why I have decided to message people politely despite the NFS status. I've seen so many things with a "NFS" status but prices mentioned in the description, or comments. I've also seen the items show up on ebay. I feel like it can't hurt to express interest.

Absolutely no harm in enquiring on stuff marked as NFS in anyone's CAF Galleries, but if you're invited to make an offer you should now be aware that the onus is on you to make it a worthwhile one.  Low-ball offers will quickly get you alienated from the owner.

Edited April 27, 2017 by The Voord

[Mr. Machismo]

I've struggled with the NFS status. No, the piece is not actively for sale and I have no current intention to sell, but I'm also always open to offers and enjoy chatting with other collectors. Tricky indeed! So I just leave the NFS

[John E.]

1 hour ago, ParamagicFF said:

This is why I have decided to message people politely despite the NFS status. I've seen so many things with a "NFS" status but prices mentioned in the description, or comments. I've also seen the items show up on ebay. I feel like it can't hurt to express interest.

I agree; there's no harm in expressing interest; it's just how you communicate that counts. You really have to use your intuition--if it's something that "hot" right now, then, yeah, you have to make an offer higher than everyone else would. If it's a C-level page that you want but no one else does, than a market- or slightly above market price will suffice. If you really want a piece, then you have to keep trying, even if you don't get an initial response or your first offer is rejected. 

And yes, I have had pieces marked "NFS" with the intention of selling them later, but I just couldn't be bothered with the listing at the moment. What does irk me is when collectors inquire about a piece and I actually give them a price and I never hear back from them. 

But can I point something out? Without knowing the specifics of the page in question, you said you felt 25% above market is a good price. What did you mean by that? So, if there's a modern page that you know you recently sold for $250, your 25% above market/sale price is $313 (rounding up). You do a PayPal transaction and the seller ends up with $304. Then the seller pays $20 for shipping and packing materials. That puts him at $284. So a whopping $34 profit, or a 14% return. I'm not a math whiz so anyone can correct my numbers, but depending on how you view "an offer 25% above market," you can see how that is not a tempting one.

I will say that if it was a Paper Girls splash that sold for $600, then 25% would be $750. If the seller got that in cash in person without PayPal or shipping costs, that's a respectable offer, to me anyway.

 

 

[Michael Browning]

Late last year and earlier this year, I was looking at getting some Dan DeCarlo Betty and Veronica and Cheryl Blossom bikini covers/pinups and found a few that were all NFS. I inquired and made an offer well over the FMV and got several of the ones I was going after.

Here's the one that took me paying 100x its FMV: the Archie's Pals and Gals 161 Cheryl Blossom pinup that was my grail. The guy who owned it bought it for $75 from Anthony Snyder more than a decade ago. I started my offer at $500 right after he bought it and was refused. Every year, I would ask again and increase my offer. Finally, after 10 years, and an offer of $3100, the guy relented and sold me the art.

I wish I could have gotten it far cheaper, but, I didn't want to offend the guy and I knew I had to make it worth his while.

[comix4fun]

15 minutes ago, Michael Browning said:

Late last year and earlier this year, I was looking at getting some Dan DeCarlo Betty and Veronica and Cheryl Blossom bikini covers/pinups and found a few that were all NFS. I inquired and made an offer well over the FMV and got several of the ones I was going after.

Here's the one that took me paying 100x its FMV: the Archie's Pals and Gals 161 Cheryl Blossom pinup that was my grail. The guy who owned it bought it for $75 from Anthony Snyder more than a decade ago. I started my offer at $500 right after he bought it and was refused. Every year, I would ask again and increase my offer. Finally, after 10 years, and an offer of $3100, the guy relented and sold me the art.

I wish I could have gotten it far cheaper, but, I didn't want to offend the guy and I knew I had to make it worth his while.

I've seen that pinup, it's great.  I think a lot of people would love to own that. I think there'd be a fight if it ever went to auction and the end price would be way more than $31 (1/100th your purchase price). So don't beat yourself up over the cost too much.

[Michael Browning]

17 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

I've seen that pinup, it's great.  I think a lot of people would love to own that. I think there'd be a fight if it ever went to auction and the end price would be way more than $31 (1/100th your purchase price). So don't beat yourself up over the cost too much.

Another stipulation to the deal was that I make him a print of the comic art and mail it to him to replace what he was losing. I agreed and so that brought the cost to $3112. The guy didn't even collect comic art - nor did he even read comics. He just like DeCarlo art and saw it for sale and bought it. He said numerous people had tried to buy it from him all the years he had it, but none ever made him think it was worth his while. He said he stopped reading my offers around $1500, but might have taken my $2000 offer the year earlier if he'd even opened the email to read it. Arrrgghh!

Sometimes, you have to catch someone at the right time: the guy who owned the Cheryl pinup was needing a new roof and the $3100 went a long way toward getting that taken care of, at the time. He later told me that after he cashed my check, he looked at the cash and decided to store it away in his safe for a later day.

[artistlost]

My favorite piece of art in my collection was on CAF as a NFS. I inquired about it and was asked to make an offer, which I did. The owner said thanks but not at this time. I inquired again sometime later and made a stronger offer but still no dice. The third time the owner told me that my new even stronger offer was very fair but if he was going to let it go it would have to be for $X. The deal was struck and the art is now framed in my office. I made sure to leave a sufficient amount of time between offers so not to harass the owner but let him know that I was very serious. All in all, the final price was a lot more than I wanted to pay but it was a page I had to have. So, the point of my post...it never hurts to ask but don't be pushy