"It's not for sale... unless the price is right" 2 2

[comix4fun]

13 minutes ago, artistlost said:

My favorite piece of art in my collection was on CAF as a NFS. I inquired about it and was asked to make an offer, which I did. The owner said thanks but not at this time. I inquired again sometime later and made a stronger offer but still no dice. The third time the owner told me that my new even stronger offer was very fair but if he was going to let it go it would have to be for $X. The deal was struck and the art is now framed in my office. I made sure to leave a sufficient amount of time between offers so not to harass the owner but let him know that I was very serious. All in all, the final price was a lot more than I wanted to pay but it was a page I had to have. So, the point of my post...it never hurts to ask but don't be pushy

So....how much you want for it?

[artistlost]

Just now, comix4fun said:

So....how much you want for it?

 

[Ironmandrd]

6 hours ago, Michael Browning said:

Late last year and earlier this year, I was looking at getting some Dan DeCarlo Betty and Veronica and Cheryl Blossom bikini covers/pinups and found a few that were all NFS. I inquired and made an offer well over the FMV and got several of the ones I was going after.

Here's the one that took me paying 100x its FMV: the Archie's Pals and Gals 161 Cheryl Blossom pinup that was my grail. The guy who owned it bought it for $75 from Anthony Snyder more than a decade ago. I started my offer at $500 right after he bought it and was refused. Every year, I would ask again and increase my offer. Finally, after 10 years, and an offer of $3100, the guy relented and sold me the art.

I wish I could have gotten it far cheaper, but, I didn't want to offend the guy and I knew I had to make it worth his while.

"Here's the one that took me paying 100x its FMV"

Michael-- you must mean cost not FMV, right??  The pin-up's FMV was not $31.  As I recall, the prior owner's cost was something like $50 (oops-$75) quite a number of years earlier (ooops-10 years) so I guess that is roughly 100x original cost--although that is an unusual way of looking at purchases for pieces originally purchased that many years earlier.

(I apologize in advance if my recollection is off re the above).

Edited April 27, 2017 by Ironmandrd
Duh! Post said that it was originally bought for $75 10 years earlier--sorry.

[marktom]

I don't see any harm in contacting someone (or being contacted) on NFS art. It's no bother to reply if I'm not interested in selling. I do think however that when contacting someone about buying a piece marked as NFS, you should be prepared to make an offer. I don't think you should contact someone about a NFS piece and not be prepared to make an offer. Don't expect the person listing the piece as NFS to come up with a price for you.

--Mark T

[Khazano]

I get contacted a lot about NFS pieces all the time. Most of the time my answer is a variation of it's not for sale barring an offer that is at least 5x FMV and even then I might not sell. The price isnt about the art. Its paying me to let go of it.  And about 90 percent of the time I hear nothing back. 9% of the time, said collector will ignore what I said and offer FMV which leads to either healthy debate or them getting mad and insulting. (I remember one collector who would hound me to no end, left off our last conversation with "Fine. You can just keep it then since you love it so damn much.")  And 1% of the time I do get an offer I'll accept. 

Edited April 27, 2017 by Khazano

[malvin]

2 hours ago, Jay Olie Espy said:

<snip>

What does irk me is when collectors inquire about a piece and I actually give them a price and I never hear back from them. 

But can I point something out? Without knowing the specifics of the page in question, you said you felt 25% above market is a good price. What did you mean by that? So, if there's a modern page that you know you recently sold for $250, your 25% above market/sale price is $313 (rounding up). You do a PayPal transaction and the seller ends up with $304. Then the seller pays $20 for shipping and packing materials. That puts him at $284. So a whopping $34 profit, or a 14% return. I'm not a math whiz so anyone can correct my numbers, but depending on how you view "an offer 25% above market," you can see how that is not a tempting one.

I will say that if it was a Paper Girls splash that sold for $600, then 25% would be $750. If the seller got that in cash in person without PayPal or shipping costs, that's a respectable offer, to me anyway.

 

 

heh, you think that is bad?  I have had people make an offer that I accepted then I never hear back.  Or people who agreed to a price I name then never reply again.  That is way worse than someone not responding when you give them a price.  But it is what it is, I have come to accept that in this hobby.

Also, minor quibble your math is off in the sense that shipping is usually extra and not something the seller eats.  Typically.

Malvin

Edited April 27, 2017 by malvin

[John E.]

36 minutes ago, malvin said:

heh, you think that is bad?  I have had people make an offer that I accepted then I never hear back.  Or people who agreed to a price I name then never reply again.  That is way worse than someone not responding when you give them a price.  But it is what it is, I have come to accept that in this hobby.

Also, minor quibble your math is off in the sense that shipping is usually extra and not something the seller eats.  Typically.

Malvin

Yeah, I think there are 10 different ways a CAF inquiry can go, and 9 of them are awry. It is something to be accepted.

About the shipping thing--I just went by a "shopper" who would be firm on how much he wanted to pay (an imaginary shopper, not the original poster at this point) which was no more than 25% above sales price/FMV, just to illustrate how there is very little motivation left on the Owner's part to take 25% above price. But even if the Shopper threw in $20 for shipping, that's not exactly a dealmaker either. Of course, I cited an example that probably has no bearing in real life either.

[Kohei]

5 hours ago, Khazano said:

 (I remember one collector who would hound me to no end, left off our last conversation with "Fine. You can just keep it then since you love it so damn much.")

I'm sorry, that's just too funny to let pass. 

[Marwai]

22 hours ago, Jay Olie Espy said:

Yeah, I think there are 10 different ways a CAF inquiry can go, and 9 of them are awry. It is something to be accepted.

About the shipping thing--I just went by a "shopper" who would be firm on how much he wanted to pay (an imaginary shopper, not the original poster at this point) which was no more than 25% above sales price/FMV, just to illustrate how there is very little motivation left on the Owner's part to take 25% above price. But even if the Shopper threw in $20 for shipping, that's not exactly a dealmaker either. Of course, I cited an example that probably has no bearing in real life either.

For new art that you saw sold on a website, there can also be sales tax that the buyer had to pay if they lived in the same state as the dealer, so the 25% above the sale price offer is only 15% above what they paid.

[bluechip]

23 hours ago, marktom said:

I don't see any harm in contacting someone (or being contacted) on NFS art. It's no bother to reply if I'm not interested in selling. I do think however that when contacting someone about buying a piece marked as NFS, you should be prepared to make an offer. I don't think you should contact someone about a NFS piece and not be prepared to make an offer. Don't expect the person listing the piece as NFS to come up with a price for you.

--Mark T

When I tell people I'm not looking to sell I usually say something along those lines.   such as "I always consider offers" but adding that I am not going to put a price on it myself.  So, it's hard not to get annoyed when they come back with things like "but if you were going to sell what would you want for it?"  or "what do you value it at?"   Especially from dealers whom I know are planning to flip it and are hoping I will not "value it" as much as they know it's worth.   But even when you call them on this and say I know exactly what you're doing and it's okay, I expect it, If you want to make an offer go ahead, but I am not putting a price on it.   Even that doesn't stop some guys from going right back to pressuring you for a number, as if you didn't say anything.

[jeBailey]

1 hour ago, bluechip said:

When I tell people I'm not looking to sell I usually say something along those lines.   such as "I always consider offers" but adding that I am not going to put a price on it myself.  So, it's hard not to get annoyed when they come back with things like "but if you were going to sell what would you want for it?"  or "what do you value it at?"   Especially from dealers whom I know are planning to flip it and are hoping I will not "value it" as much as they know it's worth.   But even when you call them on this and say I know exactly what you're doing and it's okay, I expect it, If you want to make an offer go ahead, but I am not putting a price on it.   Even that doesn't stop some guys from going right back to pressuring you for a number, as if you didn't say anything.

I got an email yesterday on a Daredevil page and I responded as follows.

I have not considered selling but feel free to make an offer.

 John B.

[GotSuperPowers?]

3 hours ago, bluechip said:

When I tell people I'm not looking to sell I usually say something along those lines.   such as "I always consider offers" but adding that I am not going to put a price on it myself.  So, it's hard not to get annoyed when they come back with things like "but if you were going to sell what would you want for it?"  or "what do you value it at?"   Especially from dealers whom I know are planning to flip it and are hoping I will not "value it" as much as they know it's worth.   But even when you call them on this and say I know exactly what you're doing and it's okay, I expect it, If you want to make an offer go ahead, but I am not putting a price on it.   Even that doesn't stop some guys from going right back to pressuring you for a number, as if you didn't say anything.

I had a guy completely flip out at me when I wouldn't put a price on a piece he would periodically ask about.  Flip out that he completely unloaded some pretty vile insults at me.  Definitely my most weird not for sale inquiry.

[artistlost]

1 minute ago, GotSuperPowers? said:

I had a guy completely flip out at me when I wouldn't put a price on a piece he would periodically ask about.  Flip out that he completely unloaded some pretty vile insults at me.  Definitely my most weird not for sale inquiry.

I'm sorry that I said all those things Simon...I just really want that page...

[GotSuperPowers?]

9 minutes ago, artistlost said:

I'm sorry that I said all those things Simon...I just really want that page...

I deserved it from you, so we're good there!  

[thethedew]

Even if you were to come up with a number when asked, it doesn't mean you're committing to sell anything.

[malvin]

28 minutes ago, thethedew said:

Even if you were to come up with a number when asked, it doesn't mean you're committing to sell anything.

hmm.. are you saying that if you had a piece NFS, and I asked you how much, and you say $1K (or whatever number). and I say I'll take it.

You are saying that you aren't obligated to sell for 1K?

Malvin

[Mephisto]

I have had the same person trying to buy the same piece for the last 5 years. 

I honestly think the person tried to guess my collecting interests and at one point bought a piece he was sure I would want and offered it for trade shortly after he obtained it.

I declined and stated my reasons why I was not really interested. (I had previously passed on the piece from the previous owner as well). 

Well he contacted me again after some time and offered the same mother trade.

Finally he asked what my crazy price would be and I gave it was met with you're right that is crazy.

Then some months later I get an email, "Do you want to sell this yet, let me know."

i just deleted the email and will no longer respond. I also have the email address go direct into my spam folder.

I don't mind periodic inquiries but when I tell you to make an offer you better do it and not offer the same trades etc I have already declined.Had the person not been such a person_who_is_obnoxiously_self-impressed I probably would contact them first if I ever were to sell, now they would have to win it from an auction house, but I have no intention of selling. I agree with others. You need to mess or get off the pot if you are asking about a piece for sale and your offer had better be WELL over market value if not multiples of FMV. 

[thethedew]

9 hours ago, malvin said:

hmm.. are you saying that if you had a piece NFS, and I asked you how much, and you say $1K (or whatever number). and I say I'll take it.

You are saying that you aren't obligated to sell for 1K?

Malvin

Generally speaking, yes.  So long as one leaves Wriggle Room.

I've been in intermittent contact with a CAF'er for years now over a NFS piece he -fairly- recently purchased in the $100-$200 range.  Our last conversation ended with him floating the idea of selling somewhere in the $1,500 range, "but even then, I might still say 'no'"

I thought that communication was generally fair, giving me a target price which might be considered, but still not committing to a sale.  I did not feel slighted by the extreme increase in expectations (as the piece has been framed), but the result was a respectful quieting of communication, which was probably the intent anyway.

I also felt the communication was possibly instructive as a possible way forward should I ever be in his shoes.  He was upfront about his warning of Not Committing to Anything, which I maintain is fair.

[simplyrob]

I've built my collection with NFS art.

 

As far as selling goes, I suppose, everything is for sale, it's just a matter of agreeing on a price.

[Twanj]

1 hour ago, simplyrob said:

 

As far as selling goes, I suppose, everything is for sale, it's just a matter of agreeing on a price.

Quote

I tell them the old joke about the man who asks a girl if she will sleep with him for a million dollars. Of course, she says yes. He then offers her two dollars and she slaps his face, saying, ‘What do you think I am?’ He answers, ‘I know what you are. We are just haggling over the price.’