"It's not for sale... unless the price is right" 2 2

[ParamagicFF]

3 hours ago, thethedew said:

Generally speaking, yes.  So long as one leaves Wriggle Room.

I've been in intermittent contact with a CAF'er for years now over a NFS piece he -fairly- recently purchased in the $100-$200 range.  Our last conversation ended with him floating the idea of selling somewhere in the $1,500 range, "but even then, I might still say 'no'"

I thought that communication was generally fair, giving me a target price which might be considered, but still not committing to a sale.  I did not feel slighted by the extreme increase in expectations (as the piece has been framed), but the result was a respectful quieting of communication, which was probably the intent anyway.

I also felt the communication was possibly instructive as a possible way forward should I ever be in his shoes.  He was upfront about his warning of Not Committing to Anything, which I maintain is fair.

I actually really like this approach. Yeah, I could see it being frustrating if the potential buyer offers to pay that price and the seller still says no. But I think for the most part, it goes without saying that the seller would accept an astronomical figure if it was thrown out, so why even talk about that? There are of course exceptions to everything, but I feel like that is a fair generalization.

 

The approach you mention is almost to say, "I don't want to sell, but if I did this would probably be my fair price". It lets the potential buyer know if he would be able to even afford it, and what he could keep available should the item come for sale. It also shows a certain relationship in the negotiation. I think it would be very friendly of the seller to approach the situation like this!

[Bird]

I try to toss the word "consider" in there somewhere. Like "I would consider $750." Makes it clear it is not an offer. Not that I get many unsolicited requests (got one yesterday though).

[Hado]

It's not art, but recently someone approached me about some books in my registry.

I politely said I wasn't looking to sell at this time.  The gentleman thanked me for my time and said if I changed my mind he'd be willing to pay x plus shipping, then he dropped a number that almost made me instantly reconsider.

It didn't end up working, but I was very impressed with how non-intrusive his inquiry was.

[GotSuperPowers?]

It stuck me with some of the more recent comments here that what we're now talking about is the CoolLines/Donnelly's business modal, except for the minor detail of the art posting indicating it's for sale.  Each piece has a magic number associated with it, but it's got an equally magic formula on the price (which I'm unable to wrap my head around, but lets say 5x of the price they paid/FMV).

Simon

[Nexus]

This thread is pretty much required reading for newbies in the hobby.

I've got my share of stories. I don't get insulted by lowball offers from newbies (although they really should learn more before making offers), but then there are those who've been around who should know better. Those chronic lowballers and deadbeats get filed under B.W.O.T. (Big Waste of Time).

For newbies, I let them know their offer is terrible (but not insulting, as they're essentially clueless). And then I explain to them why. Some appreciate the feedback, others are offended, but hey, I'm not the one who wrote you, you wrote me. The ones who should know better, I let them know they're insufficiently_thoughtful_persons.

To those who write me with strong offers right off the bat...kudos. I still won't sell, but you have my respect for not fooling around.

Anyway, here's some advice from someone who's bought "NFS" art, and sold "NFS" art. Whether buying or selling, it's absolutely mandatory to know the hobby and the players. "NFS" doesn't mean the same to everyone. We've all seen the "Grail Art Day!" posts, which are soon followed by the "FS" marketplace posts. For some, it's just a matter of "when" and "how much". There are some in this hobby that when they post their art days, I reply with "GLWTS!", to save time. One guy PM'd me, all miffed when I did that. Of course, he still ended up selling the piece.

Those aren't the guys you have to make 2-3X FMV offers to pry anything loose. Just bide your time, like the crocodile at the watering hole.

Now, when it comes to selling...if you decide to sell, but aren't sure of values, it helps to know who's making the offer. If the guy is a pretend collector/stealth dealer, then you know that whatever you're being offered, is some fraction of FMV. OTOH, if this is a guy who wins auctions regularly, then he's proven he's been willing to pay more than anyone else to get what he wants. (The auctions could be for any type of art, not just big ticket items. The point remains the same: The winner had to beat the competition, whatever the level.) Along the lines of what Chris posted, there were a couple of guys who regularly made "WTB" posts, and both implied they'd pay the most for the art on their lists. Well, that art started showing up at auction and surprise, surprise, neither ever won anything. I pointed that out, and to their credit, they've both at least had the common decency to finally shut up with their want lists.

Edited April 30, 2017 by Nexus

[MyNameIsLegion]

26 minutes ago, Nexus said:

 Along the lines of what Chris posted, there were a couple of guys who regularly made "WTB" posts, and both implied they'd pay the most for the art on their lists. Well, that art started showing up at auction and surprise, surprise, neither ever won anything. I pointed that out, and to their credit, they've both at least had the common decency to finally shut up with their want lists.

I generally find that the most vocal of those proclaiming that "I'll pay more than anyone" Stupid money and all that, are completely FOS.

[SquareChaos]

This thread is certainly a valuable resource for relative newbies (which I definitely consider myself to be), but I have to add, this hobby is incredibly difficult to get a handle on and valuation is one of the most difficult aspects. Coming from that perspective, this thread doesn't really help a whole bunch as most of the advice can be reduced to 'go big or go home'.

Attempting to figure out this hobby on your own basically amounts to spending a great deal of time reading, some cautious spending, and a lot of effort attempting to pick up on context in conversations like these. If there are any shortcuts, then I'm not sure what they may be... outside of having someone already well versed in the hobby to act as a sounding board prior to clicking 'send' on that CAF message that has the power to brand you as a bit of a pariah in this surprisingly small community if it doesn't go over well  

I sometimes wonder how people got a handle on the hobby prior to everything going online, but then I guess it wasn't nearly as complicated or expensive at that time so that had to help.

 

[NelsonAI]

 

1) Always include a valid email when trying to contact me, especially via CAF.  I will not respond to anonymous inquiries.  There is a check box option on CAF that says include your email.

2) Use your real name.  I respect your privacy.  Please do not go on a fishing expedition with alias names from Games of Throne.  Nobody will take you seriously.  Again, I will not respond to anonymous inquiries.

3) No means no.  Don't email me every week, especially if your offer was low to begin with.  If you no longer receive a reply, it's because you have been permanently spam blocked.

All the best.

Cheers!

N.

 

 

[JadeGiant]

8 hours ago, SquareChaos said:

This thread is certainly a valuable resource for relative newbies (which I definitely consider myself to be), but I have to add, this hobby is incredibly difficult to get a handle on and valuation is one of the most difficult aspects. Coming from that perspective, this thread doesn't really help a whole bunch as most of the advice can be reduced to 'go big or go home'.

Attempting to figure out this hobby on your own basically amounts to spending a great deal of time reading, some cautious spending, and a lot of effort attempting to pick up on context in conversations like these. If there are any shortcuts, then I'm not sure what they may be... outside of having someone already well versed in the hobby to act as a sounding board prior to clicking 'send' on that CAF message that has the power to brand you as a bit of a pariah in this surprisingly small community if it doesn't go over well  

I sometimes wonder how people got a handle on the hobby prior to everything going online, but then I guess it wasn't nearly as complicated or expensive at that time so that had to help.

 

Experience is your greatest teacher. Making friends with those that have been in the hobby is a great idea to speed up the learning curve as well. Even said, you are going to make mistakes. You are going to wait too long on some pieces and lose them. You might pay too much. You will lowball and lose out. You are going to buy pieces on impulse and look at them a few weeks (or less) later and ask yourself why you bought this and had to pass on something better because you depleted your funds. Etc. It's the tuition you pay for your education in the hobby (credit to Felix for that analogy - at least that's where I heard it used). Some of us are very conservative and pay a community college tuition to learn the ropes whereas some of us are impulsive and not patient and pay an Ivy league tuition to learn how things work. I have been in the hobby about 10 years and still learn new things all the time. 

[MONSTER]

11 hours ago, Nexus said:

There are some in this hobby that when they post their art days, I reply with "GLWTS!", to save time. One guy PM'd me, all miffed when I did that. Of course, he still ended up selling the piece.

That's great.  I'm going to have to start using that with a certain modern Batman collector.  Yes Kyle I'm looking at you.

[stinkininkin]

12 hours ago, Nexus said:

This thread is pretty much required reading for newbies in the hobby.

I've got my share of stories. I don't get insulted by lowball offers from newbies (although they really should learn more before making offers), but then there are those who've been around who should know better. Those chronic lowballers and deadbeats get filed under B.W.O.T. (Big Waste of Time).

For newbies, I let them know their offer is terrible (but not insulting, as they're essentially clueless). And then I explain to them why. Some appreciate the feedback, others are offended, but hey, I'm not the one who wrote you, you wrote me. The ones who should know better, I let them know they're insufficiently_thoughtful_persons.

To those who write me with strong offers right off the bat...kudos. I still won't sell, but you have my respect for not fooling around.

Anyway, here's some advice from someone who's bought "NFS" art, and sold "NFS" art. Whether buying or selling, it's absolutely mandatory to know the hobby and the players. "NFS" doesn't mean the same to everyone. We've all seen the "Grail Art Day!" posts, which are soon followed by the "FS" marketplace posts. For some, it's just a matter of "when" and "how much". There are some in this hobby that when they post their art days, I reply with "GLWTS!", to save time. One guy PM'd me, all miffed when I did that. Of course, he still ended up selling the piece.

Those aren't the guys you have to make 2-3X FMV offers to pry anything loose. Just bide your time, like the crocodile at the watering hole.

Now, when it comes to selling...if you decide to sell, but aren't sure of values, it helps to know who's making the offer. If the guy is a pretend collector/stealth dealer, then you know that whatever you're being offered, is some fraction of FMV. OTOH, if this is a guy who wins auctions regularly, then he's proven he's been willing to pay more than anyone else to get what he wants. (The auctions could be for any type of art, not just big ticket items. The point remains the same: The winner had to beat the competition, whatever the level.) Along the lines of what Chris posted, there were a couple of guys who regularly made "WTB" posts, and both implied they'd pay the most for the art on their lists. Well, that art started showing up at auction and surprise, surprise, neither ever won anything. I pointed that out, and to their credit, they've both at least had the common decency to finally shut up with their want lists.

GLTWS?

Scott

[MONSTER]

20 minutes ago, stinkininkin said:

GLTWS?

Scott

I think it should be GLWTS.  Good luck with the sale.

Edited April 30, 2017 by MONSTER

[malvin]

1 minute ago, MONSTER said:

I think it should be GLWTS.  Good luck with the sale.

I've seen the acronym, but maybe it's my darker view on life but I thought S was followed by hit and not ale

Malvin

[JadeGiant]

2 hours ago, MONSTER said:

That's great.  I'm going to have to start using that with a certain modern Batman collector.  Yes Kyle I'm looking at you.

Funny!  I was thinking the same thing

[F For Fake]

On 4/30/2017 at 9:43 AM, JadeGiant said:

Experience is your greatest teacher. Making friends with those that have been in the hobby is a great idea to speed up the learning curve as well. Even said, you are going to make mistakes. You are going to wait too long on some pieces and lose them. You might pay too much. You will lowball and lose out. You are going to buy pieces on impulse and look at them a few weeks (or less) later and ask yourself why you bought this and had to pass on something better because you depleted your funds. Etc. It's the tuition you pay for your education in the hobby (credit to Felix for that analogy - at least that's where I heard it used). Some of us are very conservative and pay a community college tuition to learn the ropes whereas some of us are impulsive and not patient and pay an Ivy league tuition to learn how things work. I have been in the hobby about 10 years and still learn new things all the time. 

I think that, unless you were one of the lucky ones who got in on the ground floor, pretty much everyone in this hobby is going to throw away a lot of money before they figure it out. Whether it's due to nostalgia or just plain inexperience, you're probably going to overpay, perhaps grossly. Just part of the learning curve. 

[JadeGiant]

I am sure that a lot do. I tended to go the other way and be too conservative on purchases. I should have been throwing more money at published stuff but I kept giving myself reasons not to buy (it will be there later, that price will come down, etc.).  While I jumped in with both feet in the hobby I focused a lot more on commissioned artwork early on as I was more concerned about price point than saving for nicer published pieces. I definitely paid my tuition in the early years.

Edited May 1, 2017 by JadeGiant

[Mr. Machismo]

On 2017-04-30 at 0:13 PM, MONSTER said:

That's great.  I'm going to have to start using that with a certain modern Batman collector.  Yes Kyle I'm looking at you.

 

On 2017-04-30 at 2:00 PM, MONSTER said:

I think it should be GLWTS.  Good luck with the sale.

I've landed multiple five-figure pieces at no cost to me, while paying other collectors well for their pieces and providing many pieces to others at below market value or cost, all the while maintaining honest deals which both sides appreciate. That doesn't add up on the surface, but that's okay 

While that sometimes means selling pieces I love and had no intention to move, it also means acquiring much larger pieces I couldn't once afford, and that'll be further evident on my CAF in about a month. There's a lot of assumptions that go on about my process, but those are just that: assumptions   

[buyatari]

Really simple. Just tell him what you are willing to pay. The worst he can say is no. 

 

 

[thethedew]

2 hours ago, buyatari said:

The worst he can say is no. 

 

 

For some, that's a response they can't stand to hear.

[buyatari]

2 hours ago, thethedew said:

For some, that's a response they can't stand to hear.

Well, what do you expect. That is the worst thing you could say!