Rules in trading 1 1

[Michaeld]

Rules in trading

I can't be alone in this but I find trading to be a very frustrating experience. I've had successful trades but most of the time it turns into a "I'm giving up more then you are" defensive mess. A lot of times when someone wants something of mine they will have a stack of art that they have been trying to get rid for years and they figure maybe they can tempt me with what nobody else is interested in. Here is an idea. Look at my gallery and get a feel for what I collect or better yet read my lists of wants. That would make things go a bit smoother. If you want to trade you have to understand that I may be giving up art that means something to me. You may have to do the same. Please feel free to add a rule of your own. My first rule of trading is:

DON'T TRY TO HAND OFF YOUR GARBAGE TO ME!

Edited April 30, 2017 by Michaeld
misspelling

[malvin]

heh, guess you just had a bad trading negotiations experience

I find trading tough, I think I have only traded with a handful of collectors.  I have traded with dealers more (particularly Burkey)

I don't have any rule, beyond don't take anything personally, it is just business.  But always make a mental note

Malvin

[Bird]

I try not to tip my hand. Lots of "what are you thinking?" and "I like xxx, any thoughts on what you may want in return?" "I can trade xxx, sure. I like yyy, zzz, and qqq. I could also include some cash depending on which of those you would like to trade to me." "If you gave me xxxx and yyyy, any idea on what you would like in return". I don't think most of my trades assigned $$ value, more of a back and forth to arrive at the answer. The exception is trading with Anthony Snyder where I would put a value on each piece and then tell him I'd take 80% of what he wanted in trade as a starting point and that worked very well.

The only good trades are where both parties are happy. But like trading in Monopoly, time will tell who got the better end of the deal every time.

[Michaeld]

5 hours ago, Bird said:

The only good trades are where both parties are happy. But like trading in Monopoly, time will tell who got the better end of the deal every time.

You always get the better end of the deal if you love what you got.

[The Voord]

No harm having exploratory discussions over possible trade opportunities with other collectors or dealers.  Any resulting 'done deal' has to work for both parties, in the sense both sides come away thinking they've got the better side of the bargain. 

If, as the OP suggests, you're getting another collector coming along offering you art that you have little or no interest in collecting, just nip the idea in the bud straight away.  Some collectors are deluded into thinking that their cr@p is your potential treasure . . .

[ESeffinga]

Not an art thing, but I once posted on a very high end guitar forum about a guitar I was selling, and happened to mention I was open to possible trades or trades + cash. First offer I got was for 1/2 cash, plus a bicycle and a used birdcage.

WTF? Still don't know if that guy was just messing with me or not. Seemed like a very Craigslist thing to say. I politely declined his offer and ever talked to him again.

My experience with the handful of trade deals I've been involved in, is that they almost never work out for me. Only a couple have ever come to anything tangible. The rest were lots of talking, lots of emails, and people backtracking and hedging. I'm just not into it, and don't think of the pieces in my collection in that way. Probably because I never have a whole cache of material I'm not in love with for some reason or other. Often too hard for me to work up that same desire for other people's pieces.

As Michael says, the majority of folks want a one stop shop of trading off their misc. pieces for one nice piece.
And to add to that, are generally totally ignorant of what kind of work I am (I think) obviously into.

It's one thing if someone sends a folder of work they are willing to trade, and at least portions of it are artists I like, or books or characters I am a fan of. Even if I don't actually like any of the work in their for trade folder, I can appreciate how they'd think I'd be conceivably interested in a trade. But more often than not I am invited to look at trade folders by people that have collecting tastes about as diametrically opposed to what I collect as it's possible to get.

I get why some folks are into them for sure. It's a personal choice as to what works and what doesn't with your collection.

[delekkerste]

RULES OF TRADING ORIGINAL ART

10. Your stuff is valued at wholesale; my stuff is valued at 2x retail

9.  You must skip straight to the good stuff, but I can make you wade through piles of drek

8.  No shopping my offer, but I can shop yours

7.  Only I am allowed to compare my pieces to the DKR #3 splash and ASM #328 cover sales

6.  Only I am allowed to fake a heart attack during negotiations

5.  My art is more one-of-a-kind than yours

4.  No drooling

3.  No screaming

2.  No weeping

1.  No speaking in German

 

with apologies to David Shrigley

[furthur]

I just finished a super fun trade, but it was all small potatoes so no room for bruised egos. I am a big fan of preliminary art and that is often where I have the most fun with trades because its more about expanding the variety of artists that each of us have in our collections rather than how can I get something great for a lot less than I would pay in cash. The capper was "hey, I know you really liked this one, so why don't you take it too" followed by "That's so cool, thanks-why don't you pick one of these two for yourself then". A trade with low stakes between friends is my kind of two and a half  hour  Sunday lunch.

 

Any preliminary art fans going to Heroes? Wanna have lunch and trade around a bit?  Benno

[JadeGiant]

1 hour ago, furthur said:

I just finished a super fun trade, but it was all small potatoes so no room for bruised egos. I am a big fan of preliminary art and that is often where I have the most fun with trades because its more about expanding the variety of artists that each of us have in our collections rather than how can I get something great for a lot less than I would pay in cash. The capper was "hey, I know you really liked this one, so why don't you take it too" followed by "That's so cool, thanks-why don't you pick one of these two for yourself then". A trade with low stakes between friends is my kind of two and a half  hour  Sunday lunch.

 

Any preliminary art fans going to Heroes? Wanna have lunch and trade around a bit?  Benno

Never traded with other collectors but this does sound like it went well. I don’t really have many prelims but an art lunch sounds good.

[comicwiz]

My first significant acquisition of OA was acquired by way of trade. If you had asked my opinion of "trading" prior to doing that deal, I would say don't ever do a trade.

I had returned to that persons house, and walked through his home so often during negotiations, I could still give you the paint colour scheme to every room leading from the entrance to the basement. The deal took almost a month to materialize from the time we first started, and what was absolutely odd about that trade was my initial offer was stronger than the one he accepted in the end.

I remember walking toward his front door saying to myself, it's time to walk away, and when I opened the door, he said "wait a minute." When he told me what he wanted as his final trade terms, I recall being silent for a good 10 seconds after he uttered it, and even asked him "are you sure?"

I even told him to think on it overnight, and I'm not sure if he thought I was trying to find an excuse to get out of doing the deal or not, but I was really trying to give him an opportunity to think through what he was accepting in return. He wouldn't let me leave without shaking on the deal.

This was the exception to the rule, and I have not otherwise willingly offered a trade - it's only been something offered by others. Partial cash/trade has worked out best for me, but one of the hardest things to overcome in any trade deal is a meeting of the minds on value. 

I understand trades could be the only way to free a piece from a collectors grip, and it goes without saying that having something a collector wants badly should puts you in an advantage in negotiations.

But I also would recommend that if a collector wants something that badly, you need to guage market demand in general for that piece, and consider the lost opportunity of outright selling it in the open market for cash before you can sit down and accept any trade deal.

[Flambit]

In all my years of obsessing and collecting, I finally did my first trade ever, last year, for a piece I had been long searching for.  A top five grail piece, low five figures.

Thing is, I could have just spent cash and got it, and I could have made that work financially. But emotion + not wanting to spend the $$ = bath time.  I must have had "sucker" floating in neon type above my head.  Ultimately I let myself get so burned, that it's driven me deep into the black hole collector status.  Even had someone offer me something recently in trade that was extremely fair and I couldn't pull the trigger.  I don't know if I'd ever do another trade again -- it's probably easier to front the money then put a potential trade piece on Heritage.  At least you know you're getting FMV.

Yes, I adore the piece I got.  But I paid much higher than I should have.  My first real "hobby tuition" I've ever paid. 

[JadeGiant]

41 minutes ago, Flambit said:

In all my years of obsessing and collecting, I finally did my first trade ever, last year, for a piece I had been long searching for.  A top five grail piece, low five figures.

Thing is, I could have just spent cash and got it, and I could have made that work financially. But emotion + not wanting to spend the $$ = bath time.  I must have had "sucker" floating in neon type above my head.  Ultimately I let myself get so burned, that it's driven me deep into the black hole collector status.  Even had someone offer me something recently in trade that was extremely fair and I couldn't pull the trigger.  I don't know if I'd ever do another trade again -- it's probably easier to front the money then put a potential trade piece on Heritage.  At least you know you're getting FMV.

Yes, I adore the piece I got.  But I paid much higher than I should have.  My first real "hobby tuition" I've ever paid. 

Sounds like getting the page was the priority so congrats there. I feel the pain of the internal debate between a cash vs trade purchase. Hopefully time will lessen the sting of the pieces you traded away and the enjoyment of the page you received will increase. I haven't traded or found myself in a position where I have a chance to pick up a grail-type page in exchange for art that I also love. I would consider any deal that was within the realm of fair. Once the trade starts to tilt toward an unfair exchange, I think I would either pony up the cash or walk away. I kind of hope I never have to face such a decision. 

[Madman1138]

My first trade was very early in my art collecting days and I was taken advantage of by a collector who was more experienced. I was just a cheap panel page collector at that time with no money and he had a nice panel page I wanted, so I reached out through CAF. He asked about a trade for it as he liked and wanted 3 pages I had, and he insisted on my 3 pages for his one. I tried to haggle but ultimately went through with it, even though I felt it wasn't fair, because I figured he must know more than me. I found out later his page was worth less than half what he took me for it. So that soured me for years on trading, so I only bought what I had money in hand for for years. (until I finally tried time payments and loved it too!)

But I eventually tried trading again and had a smooth and easy transaction, so I did it again and again. A lot of my trading has been with International collectors in Europe, and I have never had an issue. Over the past few years, I have been really enjoying trading, and have traded with several dealers as well as a few fellow collectors. In most cases I have managed to "trade up" with several smaller pieces for a single large piece. Doing this has got me pieces I would never be able to get even with time payments, so while it cost me art I loved, I got art I loved even more and that is the point. 

Ultimately, you need to have art the other party really wants to pull it off, but it's a great way to thin down the collection to less art but more quality art. So I am a big fan of trading myself. Done properly, it can work out well for both parties, but both have to be willing to give up the good stuff. No one wants the art that has sat in a "for sale" gallery forever.

Dave K

[jjonahjameson11]

On May 1, 2017 at 9:38 AM, delekkerste said:

RULES OF TRADING ORIGINAL ART

10. Your stuff is valued at wholesale; my stuff is valued at 2x retail

9.  You must skip straight to the good stuff, but I can make you wade through piles of drek

8.  No shopping my offer, but I can shop yours

7.  Only I am allowed to compare my pieces to the DKR #3 splash and ASM #328 cover sales

6.  Only I am allowed to fake a heart attack during negotiations

5.  My art is more one-of-a-kind than yours

4.  No drooling

3.  No screaming

2.  No weeping

1.  No speaking in German

 

with apologies to David Shrigley

Steve?  Rich?  Is that you?

[Mighty Hal]

When I read your "Rules of Trading", I flashed on Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid:

Butch: No, No, not yet. Not until me and Harvey get the rules straightened out.

Harvey: Rules? In a comic art trade? No rules! -- after which, Butch immediately kicks him in the...well, you know where. 

I've yet to successfully complete a comic art trade. A CAF'er approached me about a cover I picked up a couple of years ago (and, since I don't have a gallery, he had to do some detective work), and he came in with a solid offer. Probably double what I paid in trade value, even if it isn't what I collect. Fortunately, a case of seller's remorse kicked in almost immediately, so our talks didn't go far. Because he was upfront, offered a fair deal, and was generally a good guy, I promised to let him know first if I did decide to sell or trade the piece.

 

[Garf]

On 2017-5-1 at 2:38 PM, delekkerste said:

RULES OF TRADING ORIGINAL ART

10. Your stuff is valued at wholesale; my stuff is valued at 2x retail

9.  You must skip straight to the good stuff, but I can make you wade through piles of drek

8.  No shopping my offer, but I can shop yours

7.  Only I am allowed to compare my pieces to the DKR #3 splash and ASM #328 cover sales

6.  Only I am allowed to fake a heart attack during negotiations

5.  My art is more one-of-a-kind than yours

4.  No drooling

3.  No screaming

2.  No weeping

1.  No speaking in German

 

with apologies to David Shrigley

Völlig unfair! 

[AvengersFan]

I have done many trades and partial trades/cash deals with people over the years. I have found it works best with someone you already have a basic relationship with thru email or at least know them thru CAF. With that handful of people I have never had a bad experience. With a couple other I have found that dealing with people with decent collections usually means you are not going to get garbage thrown your way. I have done also done trades with Burkey, Albert, and even Steve D(!) and had them work out although they are more difficult and they certainly expect a premium in their favor.  Often over the course of the 10-20 email exchanges you make a new comic art buddy so that's a nice side benefit. I am always open to trading Avengers pages with anyone interested.

Jay