Starlin and CGC 1 1

[fullerjason]

[comix4fun]

Having dealt with CGC as representative and agent for artists for over 10 years when it comes to SS signings I can tell you this is 180 degrees the opposite of my experience.

The personnel at the CGC booths at any given convention have helped coordinate thousands of books and well into five figures of signature fees over those years without missing a beat, without miscounting a book total, without miscalculating the amount of cash owed, without being disrespectful to a creator for even a moment. 

They've also gone above and beyond to assist when some of the less-than-scrupulous facilitators have tried to sidestep the signature fee or put their thumb on the scale and slip extra books in. As soon as any issue was brought to their attention they've held the books in question, warned the facilitator or submitter that his books would not be certified if the fee wasn't paid, and basically took care of the issue so we wouldn't have to. 

It sounds like Jim got the wrong person at the booth, or asked for the wrong information without explaining why. I can't imagine if Jim would have said "some guy just stiffed me, these are the three books" that they would not have done the same for him that they've done for me and the creator's I've helped over the years and helped him figure it out. That's how the program is structured and that's how the leadership reacts. 

[reddwarf666222]

7 hours ago, comix4fun said:

Having dealt with CGC as representative and agent for artists for over 10 years when it comes to SS signings I can tell you this is 180 degrees the opposite of my experience.

The personnel at the CGC booths at any given convention have helped coordinate thousands of books and well into five figures of signature fees over those years without missing a beat, without miscounting a book total, without miscalculating the amount of cash owed, without being disrespectful to a creator for even a moment. 

They've also gone above and beyond to assist when some of the less-than-scrupulous facilitators have tried to sidestep the signature fee or put their thumb on the scale and slip extra books in. As soon as any issue was brought to their attention they've held the books in question, warned the facilitator or submitter that his books would not be certified if the fee wasn't paid, and basically took care of the issue so we wouldn't have to. 

It sounds like Jim got the wrong person at the booth, or asked for the wrong information without explaining why. I can't imagine if Jim would have said "some guy just stiffed me, these are the three books" that they would not have done the same for him that they've done for me and the creator's I've helped over the years and helped him figure it out. That's how the program is structured and that's how the leadership reacts. 

To me the responsibility falls on Jim.

1. Since Jim has a fee for books he is going to sign that are going to be submitted then he needs to collect that money upfront

2. Let's say he signed those books and then the guy says he needs to grab a witness finds out after signed and not paid, then Jim needs to say pay me for my signatures I'll hold onto the books so you can get me my money and bring the witness with you at that time. Then Jim needs to take the responsibility if person does not bring money to call the convention security, explain the situation, and hand the books over to the convention security.

3. Legally CGC can't release the information Jim was asking for without going through proper channels. If CGC would have given that information they would have opened themselves up to lawsuit.

 

 

 

[A-DONIS]

Both Jim and CGC need to get together and come to a happy solution (which they will).  Personally I think a $5 per book signing fee at the CGC booth works for any SS label.  Easy control, Jim signs at once, collects his money, and he can go back to his table to sign for his fans for free.

 

[Ryan.]

2 hours ago, A-DONIS said:

Both Jim and CGC need to get together and come to a happy solution (which they will).  Personally I think a $5 per book signing fee at the CGC booth works for any SS label.  Easy control, Jim signs at once, collects his money, and he can go back to his table to sign for his fans for free.

 

So you are suggesting that each artist at every con gets dedicated CGC booth signing time and CGC no longer deploys witnesses to artist booths? 

[reddwarf666222]

3 hours ago, A-DONIS said:

Both Jim and CGC need to get together and come to a happy solution (which they will).  Personally I think a $5 per book signing fee at the CGC booth works for any SS label.  Easy control, Jim signs at once, collects his money, and he can go back to his table to sign for his fans for free.

 

It's an issue btween a broken agreement between the fan and Starlin and not Starlin and the CGC.

[Pirate]

This whole thing has gotten so out of hand with all the exclusivity. CGC got lazy and decided to put 3 or 4 companies in charge of 95% of the SS business and we see now the clusterbomb it has become. $100+ for a writer.  Creators under the false impression that CGC is just for flippers and only want to sign free for the fans.  Creators getting whispers in there ears that if they let company A control their market, they will get rich. etc etc. 

You can't blame the companies as CGC enabled them to do whatever they want price wise.  Instead of capping pricing, CGC decided to do a stupid move like not allowing guaranteed 9.8's to be presold lol.

 

WHOEVER STIFFED STARLIN, REACH OUT AND PAY THE GUY.  IT HAD TO BE A FACILITATOR.

 

[comix4fun]

8 minutes ago, Pirate said:

This whole thing has gotten so out of hand with all the exclusivity. CGC got lazy and decided to put 3 or 4 companies in charge of 95% of the SS business and we see now the clusterbomb it has become. $100+ for a writer.  Creators under the false impression that CGC is just for flippers and only want to sign free for the fans.  Creators getting whispers in there ears that if they let company A control their market, they will get rich. etc etc. 

You can't blame the companies as CGC enabled them to do whatever they want price wise.  Instead of capping pricing, CGC decided to do a stupid move like not allowing guaranteed 9.8's to be presold lol.

 

WHOEVER STIFFED STARLIN, REACH OUT AND PAY THE GUY.  IT HAD TO BE A FACILITATOR.

 

Well, it was a guy with 3 books total. If he's a facilitator he's making Ramen noodle money. Sounds more like a fan with three books. 

[Pirate]

Then why was a deal needed to be made with Starlin for 3 books?

[fullerjason]

I don't believe there was an exclusive deal with a facilitator. Mr. Starlin just started charging $5 per book on his own for graded books and failed to collect payment from the person requesting the sigs. Mr. Starlin then went to CGCs booth after not collecting the fee to get the persons information and was told that was against policy. Then everything snowballed.....

[Pirate]

Never said this was an exclusive, just talking about where the service has gone.  Just said whoever stiffed him should pay.  CGC should have been running over there with a check and then charge the customer instead of telling Jim that due to privacy, we can't blah blah blah.  If CGC is going to let insufficiently_thoughtful_persons run around using their name, then they need to step up immediately and solve problems.  Jim is going to be big again when Infinity comes out and CGC just screwed the pooch.

[fullerjason]

I agree. Could have been handled far better than it was.

[RockMyAmadeus]

What I do with my property after it is signed is no one's business but my own.

That this even needs to be said shows how screwed up the system has gotten.

Charging a special  fee based on where my property ends up is greed based on ignorance.

I have been saying this for years, and you people with actual influence had better get a handle on this, or your geese are cooked.

[seanfingh]

As you have said many times, more often it is the preservation of the book and the grade that it receives that is more important for value of SS. Unless the signature is truly rare or currently unavailable, it provides a nominal increase in value. Get a Warlock 9 signed by Starlin, one in 9.8 and one in 9.0. See who is getting "rich" "off Starlin's sig."

But this is the same garbled understanding of the market that has affected the program since the industry became aware of it. The Al Plastino situation is the last time it flared up.

 

[reddwarf666222]

4 hours ago, Pirate said:

Never said this was an exclusive, just talking about where the service has gone.  Just said whoever stiffed him should pay.  CGC should have been running over there with a check and then charge the customer instead of telling Jim that due to privacy, we can't blah blah blah.  If CGC is going to let insufficiently_thoughtful_persons run around using their name, then they need to step up immediately and solve problems.  Jim is going to be big again when Infinity comes out and CGC just screwed the pooch.

Pirate they can't. It's a breach of confidentiality and could lead to lawsuits. All that CGC could have done and none of us were there and we have no heard their side. Is say Mr. Starlin we are sorry what happened to you and we understand your mad, but for legal reasons we can't say anything about customers who submit stuff with us that is contract between them and us. Our witnesses are not responsible for seeing if a talent get paid or not. Our witness's only responsibility is to see that the comic hits our hands directly or a licensed facilitator they work with from talent that put signed the book or put artwork on the book. We do want to see a peaceful resolution and a good outcome and want to work with you start talking with convention security and go through the proper steps so legally we can assist you in the way needed.

Solve Problems? With no info to go off of, you automatically attacked every single facilitator accusing them of the mistake. With the comment "WHOEVER STIFFED STARLIN, REACH OUT AND PAY THE GUY.  IT HAD TO BE A FACILITATOR" also in all capitals so that means you are yelling at them. The problem I see is that you are trying to switch situation this to meet your own agenda to attack facilitators in which you do not like the exclusivity direction it has gone. Which has nothing to do with this situation.  Your opening comment from the first post made it about exclusivity " This whole thing has gotten so out of hand with all the exclusivity." Your words not mine

Might what happened with Jim lead to an exclusive contract with a facilitator to sign comics that are going to be submitted for CGC? Maybe and evidence might point to that since I have seen facilitators asking Starlin to PM him directly on the wall. Or maybe the evidence is a facilitator is going to give him the money he was screwed on, educate a misinformed artist more on the process, or just get more info from Jim.

What is clear is that the community who collects slabs like myself should start doing a better job of educating why we slab our comics, why CGC is not a scam, and that not everyone who participates in this is trying to make money.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 15, 2017 by reddwarf666222

[Cascaders27]

The speed with which people on Ebay have added this to their listings and inflated their pricing is pretty impressive/appalling.

[A-DONIS]

6 hours ago, reddwarf666222 said:

It's an issue btween a broken agreement between the fan and Starlin and not Starlin and the CGC.

Yes, however, the issue can be easily corrected if Mr. Starlin chooses to do so.

[Pirate]

 

38 minutes ago, reddwarf666222 said:

Pirate they can't. It's a breach of confidentiality and could lead to lawsuits. All that CGC could have done and none of us were there and we have no heard their side. Is say Mr. Starlin we are sorry what happened to you and we understand your mad, but for legal reasons we can't say anything about customers who submit stuff with us that is contract between them and us. Our witnesses are not responsible for seeing if a talent get paid or not. Our witness's only responsibility is to see that the comic hits our hands directly or a licensed facilitator they work with from talent that put signed the book or put artwork on the book. We do want to see a peaceful resolution and a good outcome and want to work with you start talking with convention security and go through the proper steps so legally we can assist you in the way needed.

Solve Problems? With no info to go off of, you automatically attacked every single facilitator accusing them of the mistake. With the comment "WHOEVER STIFFED STARLIN, REACH OUT AND PAY THE GUY.  IT HAD TO BE A FACILITATOR" also in all capitals so that means you are yelling at them. The problem I see is that you are trying to switch situation this to meet your own agenda to attack facilitators in which you do not like the exclusivity direction it has gone. Which has nothing to do with this situation.  Your opening comment from the first post made it about exclusivity " This whole thing has gotten so out of hand with all the exclusivity." Your words not mine

Might what happened with Jim lead to an exclusive contract with a facilitator to sign comics that are going to be submitted for CGC? Maybe and evidence might point to that since I have seen facilitators asking Starlin to PM him directly on the wall. Or maybe the evidence is a facilitator is going to give him the money he was screwed on, educate a misinformed artist more on the process, or just get more info from Jim.

What is clear is that the community who collects slabs like myself should start doing a better job of educating why we slab our comics, why CGC is not a scam, and that not everyone who participates in this is trying to make money.

 

 

 

 

I have no agenda in this anymore.  I call it like I see it.  I have known the majority of the facilitators for a long time, they are solid businessmen, so I'm not attacking.  You seem to have a hard on for me, not sure why.  Jim believes he got screwed.  CGC should have handled it immediately when he first went to the booth.  CGC employees who witness I hope have some leeway to help customers/creators, they did when I was doing it.    If it wasn't a CGC witness, then it was a facilitator.   Not really hard to deduce.  This type of stuff has to stop.

[comix4fun]

5 hours ago, Pirate said:

Then why was a deal needed to be made with Starlin for 3 books?

Because Starlin didn't have posted prices for CGC books. So he decided to work out a deal with the guy, according to how he worded the account.

[A-DONIS]

8 hours ago, Ryan. said:

So you are suggesting that each artist at every con gets dedicated CGC booth signing time and CGC no longer deploys witnesses to artist booths? 

No, just artists whose lines get clogged up with multiple book signings like Perez, Starlin, Campbell, Kyle, ect....