Starlin and CGC 1 1

[Turtle]

9 hours ago, A-DONIS said:

Can we please stop making the assumption that CGC did anything wrong here?  Customers information HAS to be protected in some form.  I strongly believe that Mr. starlin's feelings towards CGC are being flamed on by his anti-CGC followers and close friends.

Give it time and let things work out.

C'mon, Adonis...it's customer service 101.  I know you're in law enforcement, which is a completely different animal.  In law enforcement, you find out who is right and who is wrong in a legal sense and then proceed accordingly.  In customer service, it's more about making it right for the customer no matter who was wrong.  I can't tell you how many customer service situations I've been in that started ugly but turned good, switching a combative person into a loyal customer in my previous years working customer service jobs. 

Customer service is KEY to any company that works directly with the public...this includes CGC.  And like it or not, CGC needs to consider talent as customers, even if the talent has never spent a dime with the company, simply to avoid putting up barricades for their customers like this recent Starlin issue.  At the same time, CGC needs to maintain tight control over their customer service reps (call center operators, booth workers, witnesses, and facilitators) if they want to avoid things like this. 

No customer info had to be released.  They could have handled it in at least a few ways:

1) Reimburse Jim on the spot and collect any info Jim had on the guy (books signed, description, number of books, etc.) and let CGC see if they can find who the submitter is.  If they can track him down, they can get their $20 back.  If they can't, then they're out $20, but the situation is avoided.  Don't you think CGC would give $20 right now if it meant that this situation never happened?  Again, in customer service, making things right doesn't necessarily mean that you're wrong.  You should be going above and beyond to service the customer.

2) Get the information Jim has on the guy (surely he has to know SOMETHING about the guy) and let CGC check to see if they can track him down.  If so, they can tell the guy to pay Jim for the books and everyone is happy.  Until they find him, CGC needs to check back with Jim regularly throughout the show to see if they guy has come back to pay him (super important!!!).  Even if the guy never comes back, this shows that despite doing nothing wrong themselves, CGC as a company cares for the talent as well as their customers.  At this point, Jim's ire would likely be more directed at the customer and not the company. 

The point is...CGC didn't do anything wrong to cause this situation, but that doesn't mean it wasn't their responsibility to step in and handle it.  And if the accounts here are correct, it was handled poorly. 

Edited May 18, 2017 by Turtle

[A-DONIS]

Adam,  you're 100% right.  But what if Mr. Starlin refuses to communicate with CGC?  Then what?  It would behoove him at least reach out to CGC and get to the bottom of this so it doesn't happen again.

[Turtle]

3 hours ago, A-DONIS said:

Adam,  you're 100% right.  But what if Mr. Starlin refuses to communicate with CGC?  Then what?  It would behoove him at least reach out to CGC and get to the bottom of this so it doesn't happen again.

From what I gathered from what was posted, he reached out to CGC at the show and found them to be not very helpful.  Please someone correct me if I interpreted that incorrectly.

If that's the case, he gave them the chance.  Now, Jim has no desire to work with CGC and thus has no reason to reach out to them.  If CGC wishes to mend fences, the onus is on THEM to reach out to Jim at this point. 

[reddwarf666222]

6 hours ago, Turtle said:

C'mon, Adonis...it's customer service 101.  I know you're in law enforcement, which is a completely different animal.  In law enforcement, you find out who is right and who is wrong in a legal sense and then proceed accordingly.  In customer service, it's more about making it right for the customer no matter who was wrong.  I can't tell you how many customer service situations I've been in that started ugly but turned good, switching a combative person into a loyal customer in my previous years working customer service jobs. 

Customer service is KEY to any company that works directly with the public...this includes CGC.  And like it or not, CGC needs to consider talent as customers, even if the talent has never spent a dime with the company, simply to avoid putting up barricades for their customers like this recent Starlin issue.  At the same time, CGC needs to maintain tight control over their customer service reps (call center operators, booth workers, witnesses, and facilitators) if they want to avoid things like this. 

No customer info had to be released.  They could have handled it in at least a few ways:

1) Reimburse Jim on the spot and collect any info Jim had on the guy (books signed, description, number of books, etc.) and let CGC see if they can find who the submitter is.  If they can track him down, they can get their $20 back.  If they can't, then they're out $20, but the situation is avoided.  Don't you think CGC would give $20 right now if it meant that this situation never happened?  Again, in customer service, making things right doesn't necessarily mean that you're wrong.  You should be going above and beyond to service the customer.

2) Get the information Jim has on the guy (surely he has to know SOMETHING about the guy) and let CGC check to see if they can track him down.  If so, they can tell the guy to pay Jim for the books and everyone is happy.  Until they find him, CGC needs to check back with Jim regularly throughout the show to see if they guy has come back to pay him (super important!!!).  Even if the guy never comes back, this shows that despite doing nothing wrong themselves, CGC as a company cares for the talent as well as their customers.  At this point, Jim's ire would likely be more directed at the customer and not the company. 

The point is...CGC didn't do anything wrong to cause this situation, but that doesn't mean it wasn't their responsibility to step in and handle it.  And if the accounts here are correct, it was handled poorly. 

Ah no. Customer privacy and who knows if Starlin would have found out this guy later because of CGC contacting the fan and CGC put a fan in awkward position to where a pissed off Starlin chews him out and loses his head. We already seen how Starlin has reacted. CGC can't put their clients in bad situations especially for something that does not involve them. It was a contract between Starlin and a fan broken not CGC. If that customer would have been yelled at by Starlin then CGC could have been sued. 

CGC pay for Starlin's stupidity collect first and then sign the comic. Case closed. CGC does not want to start a policy of paying for others mistakes.

Why are you making assumptions about CGC? CGC has not responded for their side so until then I reserve judgement, but Starlin is not looking good in me eyes and CGC by not talking is looking better. Thanks to Starlin they are getting millions of dollars of publicity for free.

For all we know since Starlin seems misinformed from his own posts it could have been for a facilitator being submitted to or even a rival grading company the comic being submitted to, but since CGC is the big dog gets the blame. We don't have enough to go off of. All I know is that Starlin makes himself look worse with each post he puts up and some of his fans and antislabbers are fueling him to make himself look worse with each additional post.

 

 

 

 

[seanfingh]

via Imgflip Meme Generator

[Turtle]

 

Better than anything I could have responded with!

[comix4fun]

For anyone following the drama on Facebook.....Tony Pomilla (he of the "F#$%^K CGC" comments all over the place) is actually our very own Hall of Shame Member "Solarcadet". 

[greggy]

15 minutes ago, Turtle said:

 

Better than anything I could have responded with!

[reddwarf666222]

5 hours ago, Turtle said:

 

Better than anything I could have responded with!

This because you don't have a comeback and you know I am right

[Turtle]

1 minute ago, reddwarf666222 said:

This because you don't have a comeback and you know I am right

More that I don't want to waste time trying to decipher your nonsensical drivel.  If you want a better response, try revising your previous post until it becomes coherent.

[A-DONIS]

It is my understanding that CGC HAS reached out to Mr. Starling, however, he refuses to reciprocate. 

[A-DONIS]

6 hours ago, comix4fun said:

For anyone following the drama on Facebook.....Tony Pomilla (he of the "F#$%^K CGC" comments all over the place) is actually our very own Hall of Shame Member "Solarcadet". 

He blocked me after I pretty called him out for being a Starling cheerleader.

[reddwarf666222]

1 hour ago, A-DONIS said:

It is my understanding that CGC HAS reached out to Mr. Starling, however, he refuses to reciprocate. 

That has been my understanding that they tried a few times that weekend to talk with him and he refused to. As well as facilitators tried to reach out to him as well who wanted to see if they could rectify the situation. All I know is that he cancelled all convention appearances after that weekend.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Until creators understand that 90-99% of the value of any signed book is in its condition, and not the signature, this won't change.

Mike Golden signs a 9.8 copy of Avengers Annual #10? That sig adds value.

Mike Golden signs a 9.6 copy of Avengers Annual #10? That sig adds nothing. There is no "profit" to be made on that signature, once additional costs are figured in.

But Mike Golden (because of Renee) charges the same price for both books.

You reading this should know the difference between a 9.6 and a 9.8.

Mike Golden and Renee Witterstaetter (and many, many others) think that ANY sig that goes into a slab "adds value."

That is not accurate.

Many facilitators won't explain this. Why would they? Those who take subs get paid regardless...it's no money out of their pocket (though they don't understand that they get less subs, too.) And, many facilitators are ENCOURAGING creators to charge for "CGC books." Again...no money out of their pocket.

I sat in Marv Wolfman's house, at his own kitchen table, and vainly tried to explain this to him...being as polite and charming as I could possibly be...but he wouldn't listen. He thinks everyone who CGCs is doing so to sell them, any and all of them...every single last one of us...and treating his signature like "trading cards", passing them around (a sentiment echoed by Len Wein, and his moronic former PA, who told me, to my face, when I politely asked "why do you charge extra for CGC?" and this muscle-headed dipstick said "because you're making money off of Len's signature"...and I, being a witness at the time for someone else, could not challenge it, despite the fact that A. what someone does with his property is none of Len Wein's concern; B. this goon had no clue what was going to happen with those particular books, C. they weren't mine, and D. perhaps most importantly, I was a witness and I won't dare do anything that could possibly reflect poorly on CGC in even the smallest way, at any time, for any reason. The presumption of this fool...and presumption it is...remains. But I digress.)

Marv Wolfman, despite writing some of the most influential comics in my own life, doesn't get any more books from me to sign. It's not worth the price he charges ($20.) Getting a New Teen Titans #23 signed by Marv isn't worth the cost of the signature...and God forbid it comes back less than 9.8. I was happy to pay $5/book to support Marv for the 1-2 seconds of his time it took to sign...$20/book isn't worth it, unless the book is a very high grade TOD #10, or NTT #1, #2, #44, or DC Presents #26. Want a New Titans #53 signed by Marv (I did!)...? Too bad, $20, despite it being functionally a quarter book, even in 9.8.

CGC has lost those submissions.

CGC lost a potentially 100 book submission last August because of Albert Moy and Chandler Rice. 100 books...not signed, not subbed...because of Chandler Rice and Albert Moy.

Think about that.

CGC lost what could easily have been a ONE HUNDRED BOOK SUBMISSION because Chandler Rice got upset that he couldn't cut in line to have his books signed, so he told Albert Moy that a stack he saw (for which I and the collector with me had waited in line all day...I at 10:30, he at 12...it was now 7) was "for CGC" and they were going to be "for sale", so Albert decided it was now "$20/book", because he didn't want anyone "making a profit off of Sam" without Sam (and Albert, you see!) getting his "cut."

...despite the fact that Sam Kieth wrote on his blog that he was signing for free, AND despite the fact that the stack that upset Chandler so much was for a private collector there to meet his favorite creator and get his Maxx and Maxx related collection signed, and who has not sold a single one, AND despite the fact that Sam wasn't being asked to sign all of those for free, that we were in the process of negotiating, but because Chandler got Albert upset, and Albert smelled money (that wasn't his), he unilaterally decided to now charge $20/book "for CGC", rather than let people privately negotiate with Sam, and forced the collector to take all his books...which weren't going to be for sale, and have since not been for sale...out of their window bags, to "prove", I guess, that he wasn't going to "flip" them.

No doubt some of the books were damaged in the process...just so Chandler Rice and Albert Moy wouldn't think they'd been taken advantage of somehow. After all, as the logic perversely goes, if you're there to get your books signed, condition should be irrelevant to you...right?

One hundred potential subs...not done...because now the price was $20 PER BOOK, which Sam's signature isn't worth on the vast majority of his output. Sorry Sam.

CGC lost $2000+ worth of business in just that one single incident.

Other people lost significant money and time wasted making the trip.

And Sam lost a few diehard fans.

Sam's signing in Texas this weekend. Personally, I haven't missed a single opportunity to meet Sam since he started going to conventions again in 2013. I dutifully stalked him, keeping my ear out for any upcoming appearances, hoping he'd show up. I was thrilled to get 39 books for myself signed at SDCC in 2013. Just thrilled.

But I won't be going to Texas. I thought about it, and thought..."nah. Not worth the risk."

I have three longboxes...yes, three...filled with Sam Kieth books. Bats, Maxx, Mage, I before E, Marvel Comics Presents...that I have been carefully setting aside for years...almost a decade...to get signed by Sam when the opportunity came up, which it almost never did.

Books which, for the most part, I bought for full price, brand new, when they came out...thus supporting Sam much more than the casual "single copy to read" buyer.

They won't be signed, and CGC won't be getting those subbed. They're not worth it. And God forbid I get anything less than a 9.8. It's just money wasted. Not because they have no value, and I wanted to make "fat profits!!!!", but because I don't like "not-9.8s" for modern books.

Anyways, I've rambled long enough. The short and the long of it is that people are dropping the ball left and right, and business that otherwise would happily and gladly be given to CGC is not happening because of greed. Greed on the part of creators, because they're convinced that anything they sign is now worth more than it was before, and no one seems capable of telling them otherwise...some because they want to "buy" access, and others because they're afraid of offending the creators and being cut off.

CGC is losing business because of this. That's the only compelling argument that should matter to CGC, and those who support CGC.

Edited May 23, 2017 by RockMyAmadeus

[revat]

13 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Until creators understand that 90-99% of the value of any signed book is in its condition, and not the signature, this won't change.

Mike Golden signs a 9.8 copy of Avengers Annual #10? That sig adds value.

Mike Golden signs a 9.6 copy of Avengers Annual #10? That sig adds nothing. There is no "profit" to be made on that signature, once additional costs are figured in.

But Mike Golden (because of Renee) charges the same price for both books.

You reading this should know the difference between a 9.6 and a 9.8.

Mike Golden and Renee Witterstaetter (and many, many others) think that ANY sig that goes into a slab "adds value."

That is not accurate.

Many facilitators won't explain this. Why would they? Those who take subs get paid regardless...it's no money out of their pocket (though they don't understand that they get less subs, too.) And, many facilitators are ENCOURAGING creators to charge for "CGC books." Again...no money out of their pocket.

I sat in Marv Wolfman's house, at his own kitchen table, and vainly tried to explain this to him...being as polite and charming as I could possibly be...but he wouldn't listen. He thinks everyone who CGCs is doing so to sell them, any and all of them...every single last one of us...and treating his signature like "trading cards", passing them around (a sentiment echoed by Len Wein, and his moronic former PA, who told me, to my face, when I politely asked "why do you charge extra for CGC?" and this muscle-headed dipstick said "because you're making money off of Len's signature"...and I, being a witness at the time for someone else, could not challenge it, despite the fact that A. what someone does with his property is none of Len Wein's concern; B. this goon had no clue what was going to happen with those particular books, C. they weren't mine, and D. perhaps most importantly, I was a witness and I won't dare do anything that could possibly reflect poorly on CGC in even the smallest way, at any time, for any reason. The presumption of this fool...and presumption it is...remains. But I digress.)

Marv Wolfman, despite writing some of the most influential comics in my own life, doesn't get any more books from me to sign. It's not worth the price he charges ($20.) Getting a New Teen Titans #23 signed by Marv isn't worth the cost of the signature...and God forbid it comes back less than 9.8. I was happy to pay $5/book to support Marv for the 1-2 seconds of his time it took to sign...$20/book isn't worth it, unless the book is a very high grade TOD #10, or NTT #1, #2, #44, or DC Presents #26. Want a New Titans #53 signed by Marv (I did!)...? Too bad, $20, despite it being functionally a quarter book, even in 9.8.

CGC has lost those submissions.

CGC lost a potentially 100 book submission last August because of Albert Moy and Chandler Rice. 100 books...not signed, not subbed...because of Chandler Rice and Albert Moy.

Think about that.

CGC lost what could easily have been a ONE HUNDRED BOOK SUBMISSION because Chandler Rice got upset that he couldn't cut in line to have his books signed, so he told Albert Moy that a stack he saw (for which I and the collector with me had waited in line all day...I at 10:30, he at 12...it was now 7) was "for CGC" and they were going to be "for sale", so Albert decided it was now "$20/book", because he didn't want anyone "making a profit off of Sam" without Sam (and Albert, you see!) getting his "cut."

...despite the fact that Sam Kieth wrote on his blog that he was signing for free, AND despite the fact that the stack that upset Chandler so much was for a private collector there to meet his favorite creator and get his Maxx and Maxx related collection signed, and who has not sold a single one, AND despite the fact that Sam wasn't being asked to sign all of those for free, that we were in the process of negotiating, but because Chandler got Albert upset, and Albert smelled money (that wasn't his), he unilaterally decided to now charge $20/book "for CGC", rather than let people privately negotiate with Sam, and forced the collector to take all his books...which weren't going to be for sale, and have since not been for sale...out of their window bags, to "prove", I guess, that he wasn't going to "flip" them.

No doubt some of the books were damaged in the process...just so Chandler Rice and Albert Moy wouldn't think they'd been taken advantage of somehow. After all, as the logic perversely goes, if you're there to get your books signed, condition should be irrelevant to you...right?

One hundred potential subs...not done...because now the price was $20 PER BOOK, which Sam's signature isn't worth on the vast majority of his output. Sorry Sam.

CGC lost $2000+ worth of business in just that one single incident.

Other people lost significant money and time wasted making the trip.

And Sam lost a few diehard fans.

Sam's signing in Texas this weekend. Personally, I haven't missed a single opportunity to meet Sam since he started going to conventions again in 2013. I dutifully stalked him, keeping my ear out for any upcoming appearances, hoping he'd show up. I was thrilled to get 39 books for myself signed at SDCC in 2013. Just thrilled.

But I won't be going to Texas. I thought about it, and though..."nah. Not worth the risk."

I have three longboxes...yes, three...filled with Sam Kieth books. Bats, Maxx, Mage, I before E, Marvel Comics Presents...that I have been carefully setting aside for years...almost a decade...to get signed by Sam when the opportunity came up, which it almost never did.

They won't be signed, and CGC won't be getting those subbed. They're not worth it. And God forbid I get anything less than a 9.8. It's just money wasted. Not because they have no value, and I wanted to make "fat profits!!!!", but because I don't like "not-9.8s" for modern books.

Anyways, I've rambled long enough. The short and the long of it is that people are dropping the ball left and right, and business that otherwise would happily and gladly be given to CGC is not happening because of greed. Greed on the part of creators, because they're convinced that anything they sign is now worth more than it was before, and no one seems capable of telling them otherwise...some because they want to "buy" access, and others because they're afraid of offending the creators and being cut off.

CGC is losing business because of this. That's the only compelling argument that should matter to CGC, and those who support CGC.

This is where I'm at in some cases, though on a much smaller scale.  High grade copies which seem like a waste to get raw sigs, but not worth it pay the unreasonably high creator fee plus CGC sigs (plus the feeling of being treated unfairly).  So I might get a few cheaper raw copies signed for less or free, but I'll be less happy about it.  So the creator does EXACTLY THE SAME THING taking the exact same time, creator doesn't get paid, cgc don't get paid, and fan has a worse experience (though admittedly might have saved some money, but was willing and prepared to pay something REASONABLE), but I guess there's some justice because I might not make $10-$20 in the event that I want to sell 1-2 out of the 10 comics I get signed in the next one or two years.

[RockMyAmadeus]

4 minutes ago, revat said:

This is where I'm at in some cases, though on a much smaller scale.  High grade copies which seem like a waste to get raw sigs, but not worth it pay the unreasonably high creator fee plus CGC sigs (plus the feeling of being treated unfairly).  So I might get a few cheaper raw copies signed for less or free, but I'll be less happy about it.  So the creator does EXACTLY THE SAME THING taking the exact same time, creator doesn't get paid, cgc don't get paid, and fan has a worse experience (though admittedly might have saved some money, but was willing and prepared to pay something REASONABLE), but I guess there's some justice because I might not make $10-$20 in the event that I want to sell 1-2 out of the 10 comics I get signed in the next one or two years.

Yup.

I was at a con last year, and had about 20 books for a writer to sign. I had prepared them, and taken the time to cart them around...mostly 80's books, with essentially no value...and he says "are these for CGC? If so, it's $5/book. Sorry, but the people at the CGC booth told me I should charge for these...if they're not for CGC, then its free."

These were modern books, books with no value, even as 9.8s. "Run" books.

They have no value, even as 9.8s. We're talking "$15 on GPA in 9.8" worthless. (I'm being vague because they weren't my books; I was the witness.)

They're not worth the extra $5 per book to get signed, and the client wasn't willing to pay the additional $100.

I picked out the 5 books that were, in the client's estimation, the most "worth it", and just got those signed. The writer would have happily signed them for free, and he even said he felt guilty about it, but that his fellow creators and the people at the CGC booth told him he should charge.

His signature would have added nothing to the value of the books.

Thankfully, the artist signs for free, and even if offered money (which I did), he won't take it. So, I was able to get some signed and CGC got some subs because of it.  But man, wouldn't it have been cool to get those mid-run 80's books that no one else cares about double signed...?

You want a New Mutants #91 signed by Liefeld and graded?  Too bad, it's $50 (it was free in 2013, when I got mine done.)

You want Fabian to sign your copy of New Warriors #1 in 9.4 condition? $20! Fabian's gotta eat!

You want a New Teen Titans #13 signed by Wolfman and graded? Tough luck, it's twenty bucks.

You want an 8.5 Swamp Thing #8 signed by Len Wein and graded? So sorry, $20 now.

You want a 9.0 copy of Marvel Special Edition #16 signed and graded? Make with the Lincoln. And you can forget getting it signed by Starlin.

You want a 9.6 copy of Infinity, Inc. #37 signed by McFarlane? $55 please!

You want a Vampirella Monthly #1 signed by Jimmy & Amanda...? $20 at least.

And that's why these creators keep seeing the same issues of their work, over and over and over again. The rest of them aren't worth the premium.

And you get put in a very awkward position of wanting to tell these creators to mind their own damn business, that what you do with your property is none of their concern...but if you want to play the game, you have to play it all the way.

But, you know, if you're not getting them graded...and why would you, you greedy pig, unless you're going to sell them and make FAT STACKS off of their sigs?...then they're free, or, in Liefeld's case, $20 less.

 

 

 

[ADAMANTIUM]

SNAP RMA  you didn't hold back ha.

but idk, my guess why CGC tells the artist to charge for every book is to grease the palms, so to speak, in order for the artist to not be concerned with the key's being signed. 

It surprises me the amount of times that I see "drek" being graded or signed, not that there is anything wrong with that, we all have our reasons. Buuuuut......at least the artist's aren't "as" much in an uproar over people only signing keys because it's not all they see come up for signature. Unless your Liefeld and you seem unsure you'll ever make a contribution to the hobby again.

I remember in 2014-15 Claremont was only $10, I don't know what it is now.... idk someone might say it's free to sign raw so that's unfair to charge just because I want it graded

It seems something different to charge more for a key, as oppose to not charging at all for a non-key

Edited May 23, 2017 by ADAMANTIUM

[Pirate]

RMA is 100% on target. 

[Ron C.]

I am a collector from the 70's and 80's who loves the yellow CGC label. The artists and writers of the 70's-90's contributed greatly to this genre. I have no issue with giving $5-25 for my books to be signed. Chris Claremont was 20. for my last signings. The iconic Bob Layton charged $5 for each of my 5 books this past weekend and also gave me a signed limited edition print of the edition that I was having signed. I love the fact that the icons of yesterday and today can come to cons and be available for signatures and stories. 

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

9 hours ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

SNAP RMA  you didn't hold back ha.

but idk, my guess why CGC tells the artist to charge for every book is to grease the palms, so to speak, in order for the artist to not be concerned with the key's being signed. 

It surprises me the amount of times that I see "drek" being graded or signed, not that there is anything wrong with that, we all have our reasons. Buuuuut......at least the artist's aren't "as" much in an uproar over people only signing keys because it's not all they see come up for signature. Unless your Liefeld and you seem unsure you'll ever make a contribution to the hobby again.

I remember in 2014-15 Claremont was only $10, I don't know what it is now.... idk someone might say it's free to sign raw so that's unfair to charge just because I want it graded

It seems something different to charge more for a key, as oppose to not charging at all for a non-key

Liefeld was actually the first creator who charged different prices based on what he was signing...first, it was New Mutants #87, and then it was New Mutants #98 as well...and I didn't have any problem with that. At least there was SOME effort to understand the different values of books.

It's the "these are for CGC? Oh, then, that will be more money." And despite the moronic blatherings of the incompetent know-nothings on Voldemort's board (I know, I know, tell us how you REALLY feel), no one would tolerate such a thing in the real world.

Can you imagine...? Being charged a different (higher) price for something based on what you intended to do with it afterwards...? It's absurd! It's repugnant that they even ASK in the first place! But, because I have never done (to my knowledge), and would never do, anything to put CGC in a bad light, I say nothing, or very little, because...well, remember what I said about people being afraid of being cut off...? Hope you all got all the Jim Starlin books you wanted done. Starlin...and I love Starlin, quirky as he is, and have a tremendous amount of respect for him...has cut everyone who wanted to do CGC off. Exactly what I was afraid of happening.

"What do you intend to do with that after I sign it...?"

"It's none of your damn business what I intend to do with it, and I'll thank you not to ask such a rude and impertinent question to your fans, putting them in such a terribly awkward position, and making things generally uncomfortable, thank you very much! Sign it, don't sign it, charge for it, don't charge for it...but don't you DARE ask me what I intend to do with MY property, and then charge me a HIGHER PRICE for my answer. That's just plain RUDE."

I'm incredibly thankful I got the books done that I did. At least they exist. At least someone went out there and made it possible to collect a very high grade set of Strange Tales/Warlock signed by Starlin, some of which are the ONLY 9.8 copies that now exist. You bet I made money off of (some of) them: I was the one, after all, who took the risk of buying them in the first place, when no one was interested in them, and took the time and effort to preserve them, and then developed the skill to make them better, if necessary...none of which Starlin had anything to do with. And those books were "worth money" because of their condition, not their signature.

There's not much said about the legacy of these things, but think about it: because of Chainnball, there are now 125 Frazetta SS books that exist. Those books wouldn't exist without him. And yes, I understand that they're expensive, and yes, I understand that I, and others, made quite a bit of money (some more than others) off of them...but the fact is, they EXIST in the first place, one can own a tangible piece of work that Frazetta himself actually touched, and be 100% certain that he signed it...and all because Chainnball said "why not...?" when everyone else said "can't be done."

THAT is pretty damn cool, and, in my opinion, the greatest reason why the Sig Series program exists in the first place.

And really...who wants to see nothing but a stack of New Mutants #98 SS slabs...? I'm a hoarder of comics, and even *I* think that's dumb. That's not hard. That isn't a challenge. But a RUN of New Mutants #85-100, all 9.8, signed by Rob, and Louise, and Fabian...? Now THAT would be something worth talking about...and it's also, unfortunately, something I came close to achieving, but never did, and now...it's not worth the cost.

Yeah, yeah, ok, Swamp Thing #20, 21, and #37...great. Can I show you my QUAD signed #59 9.8, signed by Veitch, Totleben, Bissette, and Sienkewicz, of which I am most proud...? Not worth anything, you say...? $100, you say? Or my QUAD signed #64, with Swampy head sketches by Veitch, Bissette, and Yeates...? Only worth $60 you say? Worth less than I paid to get it done? Don't care, it's effin' cool as hell. And Steve Bissette and John Totleben and Rick Veitch and Tom Yeates are effin' cool as hell. Who gives a damn what they're worth?

And no, I don't like that these guys charged a premium because they were going in slabs. I don't like it one bit. And I don't think THEY liked it that much, either. I don't care that I've paid Totleben alone over $1,000 for sigs over the past 7 years. If I was a millionaire, I would have gladly given him $10,000 to sign my books. It wasn't about the dollar amount...it was the "oh, these are for CGC, so you're obviously making money off of me, so I'll charge you more" mentality. Veitch didn't like it, Bissette didn't like it, and I don't think Totleben liked it all that much, either. But, they were pressured into it, because someone said...or implied...that "oh, these are for money, so you need to charge more."

It soils the whole experience, to a great degree. Don't sit there and count my money, and I won't sit there and count yours.

Oh, no, if you're a CGC slabber, you're just a greedy flipper. You couldn't POSSIBLY be a fan. You couldn't POSSIBLY get the tears and the fanboy giggles over someone doing something as cool as sketching Nightwing and Flash in the white space of NTT #39, visually bringing their ultimate destinies full-circle, integral to the storyline of that book, fulfilling a dream you had waited 24 years to fulfill, ever since you first laid eyes on the book, finding and buying that perfect copy, and carefully, carefully preserving it over the ensuing decades until just the right opportunity, then carefully preparing and protecting it as it travels across state lines with you, and then handing it to George Perez, and then hoping, hoping that he handled it carefully so that he wouldn't, in one quick moment, undo all the care you put into preserving it for two+ decades. I think about it NOW, and I get a little misty. That book is one of my prideiest of joys.

You couldn't POSSIBLY be a fan when you watch Sam Kieth do the very same thing with MCP #87, which, from the moment you saw all that gorgeous white space the day it came out, caused you to think "how cool! That would be a perfect place for a sketch of Wolvie!"...not even knowing, in 1991 when you bought it, that it would take 22 years to make that grain of an idea into reality, using a mechanism that, in 1991, was only a vague concept being discussed tangentially by a handful of dealers and collectors.

Oh, no. You're not a fan. You're just a dirty flipper, profiting off of the backs of others.

Yeah.

Sure.

Go with that.

 

Edited May 24, 2017 by RockMyAmadeus