Jim Starlin hates CGC! 3 3

[Drbearsec]

49 minutes ago, F For Fake said:

RMA, I'm having some difficulty with the quoting, but here is your exact quote from page 10:

"The thing that is making an SS book valuable is its condition, not the signature. The signature only amplifies the value that already exists, if any."

So is this admission that you're barking mad? 

 

In reality, Rarity and Desirability equate the value of the book.  Grade and signatures increase or decrease the base value of the book.

[mschmidt]

20 minutes ago, Lucky Baru said:

Correct me if I am wrong but many of the signatures aren't "witnessed".  Unlike PSA/JSA who have a witness who sits with the person signing the autographs and watches all of them being signed; the autographs on who knows how many yellow labeled books are a drop it off, artist or somebody signs the books, then the "witness" swings back to collect them, and gets them to the yellow labeling company to be slabbed/graded.

No, that isn't correct - the vast, vast majority of SS books are witnessed directly by a CGC witness. It's pretty much only sketch cover books where the witness isn't present for the actual sketching, but picks up it from the artist when the book is done.

[Lucky Baru]

Just now, mschmidt said:

No, that isn't correct - the vast, vast majority of SS books are witnessed directly by a CGC witness. It's pretty much only sketch cover books where the witness isn't present for the actual sketching, but picks up it from the artist when the book is done.

Vast majority?  So, some aren't witnessed?  How many aren't? 

I'm asking as it seems that dropping them off and coming back and picking them up from the artist is OK in the SS yellow label rules for witnesses.

[seanfingh]

43 minutes ago, F For Fake said:

Who pulled your string anyway?

Which part of the logic are you having trouble with? 

RMA said that the thing that makes a SS book valuable is the condition, not the signature.

I said that it's insane to say that condition is the sole factor when the entire point of Signature Series is the signature.

RMA said that is indeed insane, and that no one ever said that, although that is exactly what he said.

What am I missing?

You pulled it. His quoted words say that the "The signature only amplifies the value that already exists."  

The definition of amplify is as follows:  Amplify definition, to make larger, greater, or stronger; enlarge; extend

If one posits that the signature amplifies the value, then one is stating affirmatively that condition is not the sole factor. 

Your continual logic fail is effectively trolling him.  You are typing illogical falsehoods.  Please stop humping logic, it doesn't like it.   

[F For Fake]

2 minutes ago, seanfingh said:

You pulled it. His quoted words say that the "The signature only amplifies the value that already exists."  

The definition of amplify is as follows:  Amplify definition, to make larger, greater, or stronger; enlarge; extend

If one posits that the signature amplifies the value, then one is stating affirmatively that condition is not the sole factor. 

Your continual logic fail is effectively trolling him.  You are typing illogical falsehoods.  Please stop humping logic, it doesn't like it.   

I'm not trying to troll him, honestly. I just find it baffling. And you yourself are omitting the sentence directly before the one you quoted, which is "The thing that is making an SS book valuable is its condition, not the signature."  , which was the part I took issue with.

Anyway, I'm done with it. 

Now, back to pulling your string. 

[comix4fun]

14 minutes ago, seanfingh said:

Please stop humping logic, it doesn't like it.   

 

[greggy]

[seanfingh]

via Imgflip Meme Generator

[Jeffro.]

Now it's a party! 

[mschmidt]

1 hour ago, Lucky Baru said:

Vast majority?  So, some aren't witnessed?  How many aren't? 

I'm asking as it seems that dropping them off and coming back and picking them up from the artist is OK in the SS yellow label rules for witnesses.

All books are witnessed. What you're describing is allowed for sketch covers where it wouldn't make sense for the witness to be standing around for hours while the artist is sketching on the book.

[jsilverjanet]

6 hours ago, joeypost said:

 boy oh boy, this thread sure made a left at Albuquerque.

The truth of the matter, after all the arguments posted in this thread, is that Mr. Starlin has made a decision. A decision that may be based on an incomplete knowledge of the SS process, but one based on how he was treated by those who are part of the process.  Unless someone steps up and explains/apologizes  things to him, to remedy the situation, his decision will likely become a permanent one.

I am available

[Lucky Baru]

2 hours ago, mschmidt said:

All books are witnessed. What you're describing is allowed for sketch covers where it wouldn't make sense for the witness to be standing around for hours while the artist is sketching on the book.

So, are you advising Starlin isn't relaying the truth in his post?  He stated that he signed 2 books without a witness, and was asked to hold on them so the owner could get a third.  The owner then went to get a witness so he could see them being returned.  The "witness" never saw them being signed.

Edited May 16, 2017 by Lucky Baru

[FineCollector]

13 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

It's irrational to charge someone a higher price for something simply because of the color of the shirt they happen to be wearing, as you well know.

Regardless of what the market determines, that is irrational, in and of itself.

Are we really having this discussion......? Have we reductio ad absurdum'd here?

What if the creator says he'll charge a higher price for someone wearing a DC shirt, and less for someone wearing a Marvel shirt?  Is that rational enough for you to consider now?

Oh, keep the response down to a paragraph or less, would you?  I zone out when you write a page worth of blather...

[jsilverjanet]

[RockMyAmadeus]

7 hours ago, F For Fake said:

RMA, I'm having some difficulty with the quoting, but here is your exact quote from page 10:

"The thing that is making an SS book valuable is its condition, not the signature. The signature only amplifies the value that already exists, if any."

So is this admission that you're barking mad? 

 

No. 

Read it again.

It doesn't say "the ONLY thing." It says "the thing." There is a difference in meaning between those two statements, however subtle that difference is perceived to be (and it's not subtle.) No exclusion of other factors is implied, nor should be inferred. That much is made clear by the context of the very next sentence. 

"Amplify" means "to make larger, greater, or stronger; enlarge; extend." 

These sorts of misunderstandings...willful or innocent...are why many of my posts are long. 

[kav]

6 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

No. 

Read it again.

It doesn't say "the ONLY thing." It says "the thing." There is a difference in meaning between those two statements, however subtle that difference is perceived to be (and it's not subtle.) No exclusion of other factors is implied, nor should be inferred. That much is made clear by the context of the very next sentence. 

"Amplify" means "to make larger, greater, or stronger; enlarge; extend." 

These sorts of misunderstandings...willful or innocent...are why many of my posts are long. 

So if a book in 9.8 is worth $1000 and with a sig, $2000, the sig isn't making it valuable even though it's half the value.  Got it.

[RockMyAmadeus]

7 hours ago, F For Fake said:

Who pulled your string anyway?

Which part of the logic are you having trouble with? 

RMA said that the thing that makes a SS book valuable is the condition, not the signature.

I said that it's insane to say that condition is the sole factor when the entire point of Signature Series is the signature.

RMA said that is indeed insane, and that no one ever said that, although that is exactly what he said.

What am I missing?

What you are missing is the context of the statements taken together, and you have not understood the basic logic I have used, and to which Fingh is referring. That's not what I said, at all.

Read the sentence again:  "The thing that is making an SS book valuable is its condition, not the signature. The signature only amplifies the value that already exists, if any."

The signature is not THE THING making an SS book valuable. THE THING making an SS book valuable is its condition. A signature CAN ADD to the value of a book, but it is not THE THING that makes it valuable in the first place. THE THING that makes it valuable (but not the ONLY thing) is its condition (after, of course, its status as a collectible.) 

Example: "THE THING that makes summer so exciting is being out of school!" That does not mean that nothing else...like vacation trips, spending time at the mall, working a summer job, etc., is exciting. "The thing" isn't an exclusionary statement. It's simply the driving factor, among other factors.

If I had said "the ONLY thing", you would have a point. But I did not, nor would I, because , as you rightly point out, such a statement is ludicrous, especially from someone who has sold SS books for years.

But, you know...no benefit of the doubt for ol' RMA, eh...? He must have said something stupid; it couldn't possibly be that I misunderstood him, right...?

Read the second sentence again: "The signature only amplifies the value that already exists, if any."

To amplify something means to add to it, to make it larger, to extend it. That means a signature can ADD value. If there's nothing to add to, make larger, or extend, then the signature itself generally adds nothing. 

 

Edited May 16, 2017 by RockMyAmadeus

[RockMyAmadeus]

3 hours ago, FineCollector said:

What if the creator says he'll charge a higher price for someone wearing a DC shirt, and less for someone wearing a Marvel shirt?  Is that rational enough for you to consider now?

Oh, keep the response down to a paragraph or less, would you?  I zone out when you write a page worth of blather...

Why do you feel the need to insult me? Have I insulted you, or wronged you in some way? 

[kav]

3 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Example: "THE THING that makes summer so exciting is being out of school!" That does not mean that nothing else...like vacation trips, spending time at the mall, working a summer job, etc., is exciting. "The thing" isn't an exclusionary statement. It's simply the driving factor, among other factors.

So you are admitting that other things can make a comic valuable by this analogy.  Finally.

[kav]

Maybe this example would help.  There are no Ditko SS books.  A 6.5 Ditko SS would be extremely valuable.  Yes that's right the signature, not the condition, would make it valuable.  Depending on the book, more valuable than a 9.8.

Edited May 16, 2017 by kav