Jim Starlin hates CGC! 3 3

[Logan510]

1 hour ago, oakman29 said:

True story. I had bought a Neal Adams sketchbook for him to sign. He throws a comment out there " this will bring you some bucks on eBay". I told him that I'm not going to ever sell. He said yeah sure.

I felt bad after the experience. That one of my artistic idols could be so jaded .

Of course I still have the book.

I feel like you're leaving something out Dave. I only say that because I have seen this scenario play out in person and the eBay comment from Neal is normally followed by the fan declining to have the signature personalized to them.

[Get Marwood & I]

1 hour ago, oakman29 said:

True story. I had bought a Neal Adams sketchbook for him to sign. He throws a comment out there " this will bring you some bucks on eBay". I told him that I'm not going to ever sell. He said yeah sure.

I felt bad after the experience. That one of my artistic idols could be so jaded .

Of course I still have the book.

I would have felt bad too Oak. If you're genuinely queuing to get a prized signature from one of your comic idols it's poor form for them to basically accuse you of profiteering. If I were in that position, I would much rather the genuine fans left delighted than make a point to any would be profiteerers. It shows a lack of class I think. Either do it with a good heart, or don't do it at all. 

[oakman29]

1 hour ago, Logan510 said:

I feel like you're leaving something out Dave. I only say that because I have seen this scenario play out in person and the eBay comment from Neal is normally followed by the fan declining to have the signature personalized to them.

No I didn't have a problem with Neal personalizing the sketchbook,maybe he just had a bad day.

[ComicConnoisseur]

1 hour ago, oakman29 said:

No I didn't have a problem with Neal personalizing the sketchbook,maybe he just had a bad day.

Like I said much earlier in the thread these artists should give back to the fans by doing the sigs for free.

They would get rewarded by all the free good publicity by doing it that way.

Instead by trying to nickel and dime their fans they come off as cheap and petty.

Neal Adams is rich and he is in his seventies. I don't get why someone with his stature goes around to cons and charges his loyal fans a price for his autograph.

That be like Al Pacino, Jack Nicholson or Brad Pitt setting up shop in front of movie theatre and hawking their sigs after we just paid good money for their movies we just watched.

If any of the big time artists or writers like Adams, Steranko or others are reading this thread I ask you why do you charge your loyal fans who supported you all these years for your autograph?

[Logan510]

2 hours ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

Like I said much earlier in the thread these artists should give back to the fans by doing the sigs for free.

They would get rewarded by all the free good publicity by doing it that way.

Instead by trying to nickel and dime their fans they come off as cheap and petty.

Neal Adams is rich and he is in his seventies. I don't get why someone with his stature goes around to cons and charges his loyal fans a price for his autograph.

That be like Al Pacino, Jack Nicholson or Brad Pitt setting up shop in front of movie theatre and hawking their sigs after we just paid good money for their movies we just watched.

If any of the big time artists or writers like Adams, Steranko or others are reading this thread I ask you why do you charge your loyal fans who supported you all these years for your autograph?

To be clear, I don't know if Neal Adams is rich, but why do you assume he is? That mans convention schedule makes me tired just looking at it and I'm 30+ years his junior. If I were rich, I wouldn't be dragging myself to conventions all over the country nearly every weekend, unless it was because I enjoyed interacting with my fans. Neal gets a bad rap and it's unfortunate, he has a wry sense of humor and I've seen it in person get the more sensitive types bent out of shape.

[ComicConnoisseur]

1 minute ago, Logan510 said:

To be clear, I don't know if Neal Adams is rich, but why do you assume he is? That mans convention schedule makes me tired just looking at it and I'm 30+ years his junior. If I were rich, I wouldn't be dragging myself to conventions all over the country nearly every weekend, unless it was because I enjoyed interacting with my fans. Neal gets a bad rap and it's unfortunate, he has a wry sense of humor and I've seen it in person get the more sensitive types bent out of shape.

The guy owned his own comic book company and owns his own art studio. Was the top comic book artist up there with Kirby and Frazetta. I am sure he cleared at least a few million in his 50 year career. Remember this is the guy who got Siegal and Shuster good deals from DC, so he is business savy.

This site says he is much richer that that. I don't know if he is that rich,but he has to be a millionaire.

http://heightweighnetworth.com/neal-adams/

 

[Logan510]

2 minutes ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

The guy owned his own comic book company and owns his own art studio. Was the top comic book artist up there with Kirby and Frazetta. I am sure he cleared at least a few million in his 50 year career. Remember this is the guy who got Siegal and Shuster good deals from DC, so he is business savy.

This site says he is much richer that that. I don't know if he is that rich,but he has to be a millionaire.

http://heightweighnetworth.com/neal-adams/

 

If he's worth even a 3rd of that, he's obviously not on the con circuit for just the money 

[ADAMANTIUM]

I agree Neal Adams is a character. Every time I've talked to him he trys to be funny. I laughed a couple of times, but he's alright in my book. I think he's a salesman and with his experience is always looking to profit. He does have an imaginative personality, I thought he was cool  

[Ken Aldred]

43 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

I agree Neal Adams is a character. Every time I've talked to him he trys to be funny. I laughed a couple of times, but he's alright in my book. I think he's a salesman and with his experience is always looking to profit. He does have an imaginative personality, I thought he was cool  

As a New Yorker he may sound a little blunt to some, but having a fairly blunt, northern English accent myself I really can't be negative about that. I just understand it could polarise.

Edited May 29, 2017 by Ken Aldred

[RockMyAmadeus]

16 hours ago, SteppinRazor said:

It doesn't apply to just this instance, but somehow even though it shouldn't, it always surprises me how much people decide that the way others find happiness is unacceptable.  If a person is happy getting a signature and getting it verified and preserving that comic, what's the harm?  If a guy gets a signature and gets it verified and preserves that comic and sells it to someone who wants it and couldn't get it, so what?  That buyer's happy.  The person who stood in line to do the work makes money they can use to further their happiness or their family's happiness.  And for what - to appreciate the creator so much they want his name written on their comic they are willing to go through all that, plus pay the creator.

But no, somehow we have to approve or disapprove of how someone else finds a little joy in life.  And it usually doesn't even make the judger any happier either

If a creator is concerned with "resale", then he/she should be made aware of ALL the facets that go into that. If he thinks his signature adds value to anything, he is GRAVELY mistaken. I would think...Jimenez seems to be a relatively savvy businessman...that he would welcome such information, and NOT want to alienate fans (yes, folks, people who "make money" can also be fans...shock, I know! I don't know ANY retailers, or distributors, or publishers, or creators, who are also fans. Strange!) by charging based on a misconception.

It really is that simple. Wolfman has alienated me. I have books that his sig MIGHT add value to (DC Presents #26, NTT #2, in high grade), but I've decided I am no longer interested, because of his misinformed...and worse, unwillingness to BE informed...attitude.  And I have dozens of books to which I would have liked his sig to be added, and would have been happy to pay his $5/book fee, even though it was an additional expense for books I wasn't going to sell, and to which his signature added no value (New Teen Titans #37, even in 9.8, anyone...?)

What a shame. Marv Wolfman wrote perhaps one of the most influential storylines I've ever red, A Lonely Place of Dying, which I could, at one time, recite panel for panel, because, you know...fan and all...but I won't support him any further. His right, my right.

Creators have gotten far too cynical. CGC needs an ombudsman.

[StingerMcK]

Maybe I missed a page,  but what's up with Wolfman?  Is he on the bandwagon now too? 

[Logan510]

25 minutes ago, StingerMcK said:

Maybe I missed a page,  but what's up with Wolfman?  Is he on the bandwagon now too? 

He has been for a while.

[Ken Aldred]

I have to agree about Marv Wolfman. Terrible attitude when I tried to chat with him at LSCC.

Extremely disappointing, as he's written some important books such as Tomb of Dracula, New Teen Titans and Crisis on Infinite Earths, and someone whose work I'd admired since the 70s.  

 

 

[Get Marwood & I]

9 minutes ago, Ken Aldred said:

I have to agree about Marv Wolfman. Terrible attitude when I tried to chat with him at LSCC.

Extremely disappointing, as he's written some important books such as Tomb of Dracula, New Teen Titans and Crisis on Infinite Earths, and someone whose work I'd admired since the 70s.  

 

 

How do you feel about the work now, having met the author and found him to be ungracious Ken?

[fastballspecial]

In a way I am sure they feel jaded. All their work making millions and they get little or no royalty from it. That has to be hard to swallow no matter who you are or how "rich" some of you think they are. I think many are jealous of the new capitalist artists like Hughes and JSC really.

If I see a new "hot" writer/artist who states they wont sign then that would tell me there is a systematic problem or issue that needs addressing very quickly. I think until that happens it just be business as usual.

Phil isn't really a "new" artist, but he is closer then Wolfman and Starlin by a distance. Honestly some just won't sign much at all as personal preference. I've never met one I have ever had an issue with and they are very welcoming when you donate to the CBLDF or something similar.

Id really like one of them to expand on their point of view because I read about is the other side.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

6 hours ago, fastballspecial said:

In a way I am sure they feel jaded. All their work making millions and they get little or no royalty from it. That has to be hard to swallow no matter who you are or how "rich" some of you think they are. 

 

 

Marv Wolfman has been very fortunate because of New Teen Titans. According to Perez, both he and Marv were given quite lucrative deals on NTT, for which George said he no longer has to work.

I don't have very much sympathy for ANYONE who complains about how things used to be. No one forced them to draw comics for a living. It's a BAD argument. Bob Kane...at the very DAWN of comics...had the savvy to get National to write up a contract that gave him credit in perpetuity, and it was apparently a very lucrative deal, too.

They had lawyers in 1938, and 1933, and 1952, and 1961. They had royalties in those years, too. Why couldn't these other creators have done the same thing...?

Answer: because they WILLINGLY TRADED risk for security. They chose to work for established publishers, and didn't dictate terms up front. They got themselves a relatively secure job in exchange for none of the risk. That's how it works, folks, and how it's always worked. If they wanted to take the risk, they should have struck out on their own...like Bill Gaines did in 1950-ish (turning his father's Educational Comics into Entertaining Comics, and setting the comics world on fire)...or like Wally Wood did with "wiztend" in 1966 or Tower Comics...or Dave Sim did with Aardvark-Vanaheim in 1977...or Neal Adams did with Continuity in 1984...or Jim Shooter did with Valiant in 1989...or the Image boys did in 1992.

These ventures carry RISK. They aren't a guarantee. That's why a lot of creators would rather work for a steady paycheck...which comes with its own drawbacks, their creations not belonging to them being the main one.

Not that it's anyone's business...but if Marv doesn't count my money, I promise not to count his.

Question: if I get a 9.4 New Teen Titans #29, do I get a rebate from Wolfman...? Or any of the others who charge a "CGC/slabbing premium" because I'm "making money off their sig"...?

I mean, if it's profit sharing they want, the other side of that comes into play too, does it not...?

 

[Broke as a Joke]

1 hour ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Question: if I get a 9.4 New Teen Titans #29, do I get a rebate from Wolfman...? Or any of the others who charge a "CGC/slabbing premium" because I'm "making money off their sig"...?

I mean, if it's profit sharing they want, the other side of that comes into play too, does it not...?

Wow...

[Ken Aldred]

13 hours ago, Marwood & I said:

How do you feel about the work now, having met the author and found him to be ungracious Ken?

It's going to be at the back of my mind while reading his stories, but it's hardly a case for going through my collection, pulling out books containing his work, and then giving them the lighter fuel treatment.  

More showing a bit of thought and respect for some of the other creators associated with his comics, such as George Perez, Gene Colan and Tom Palmer, who were absolutely great when I met them.

[Get Marwood & I]

2 hours ago, Ken Aldred said:

It's going to be at the back of my mind while reading his stories, but it's hardly a case for going through my collection, pulling out books containing his work, and then giving them the lighter fuel treatment.  

More showing a bit of thought and respect for some of the other creators associated with his comics, such as George Perez, Gene Colan and Tom Palmer, who were absolutely great when I met them.

Nicely judged answer Ken, as always 

[F For Fake]

On 5/28/2017 at 6:14 PM, Ken Aldred said:

I think that's what irritates me the most.  

It could also be someone at the opposite end of the spectrum, like me, who's simply very OCD ; protecting a high grade, perhaps expensive book which I care a lot about from damage, and presenting it to a creator whose work I admire.  That level of consideration could, in other circumstances, be interpreted by them as respect rather than greed.

It's a shame that purist collectors now get tarred with the same brush.

This is my problem as well. I don't do SS, but I AM a bit OCD about my books, so I have in the past down the window bag and tape thing, just because the books are going to be jostling about in my bag the rest of the day, I don't want them getting trashed. I've had some creators make some snarky comments, but oh well.