Jim Starlin hates CGC! 3 3

[kav]

I care.  

[WeR138]

1 hour ago, Mercury Man said:

Can't say I disagree.  I understand getting a Golden Age or Silver or Bronze Age high dollar key that you are going to try to auction off.  You want the buyer to know what you are selling, and they want to be comfortable buying, with no issues about agreed upon condition.  I do not understand people sending everything off.   There are more Stan Lee signed comics out there than anybody would ever want.   You see poor, nothing special Silver and Bronze age books slabbed.  WHY!?  Modern comics....that's a whole other head scratch.    

I had a "nothing special" bronze book signed by the artist and slabbed.  It's not going to bring me the big bucks if I were to decide to sell it (which I'm not), but it's importance to me isn't monetary.  It's a book that I distinctly remember having as a kid, and all of it's value is wrapped up in nostalgia.  Just because it's not valuable doesn't mean it's not special.

[Semicentennial]

36 minutes ago, wombat said:

CGC didn't have to give him any information. They could have figured out who it was and told them to go and pay. Or paid the fee themselves and then contacted the customer and gotten the money before releasing the book. Lots of good options other than refusing to help and instead trying to argue with the person who just got stiffed why he should continue signing books for them. 

Does Starling himself make a big difference? Probably not. But considering the pressure that was exerted on him by other artists he might be able to do the same thing. 

 

They should have just paid the fees he was asking and moved on.  Not only did they lose him as a "business partner", they're driving their own customers to their competition.  

[kav]

18 minutes ago, LMGTFY said:

 

CGC should make a colored label for real fans who aren't going to flip the books. Then if we see the person selling those labels they can be blacklisted like the Blocked Bidders list on here.

Great idea.  Then when non collector kids inherit the books they can de slab em and sell em at a loss for 'name written on cover' 

[Ken Aldred]

29 minutes ago, WeR138 said:

I had a "nothing special" bronze book signed by the artist and slabbed.  It's not going to bring me the big bucks if I were to decide to sell it (which I'm not), but it's importance to me isn't monetary.  It's a book that I distinctly remember having as a kid, and all of it's value is wrapped up in nostalgia.  Just because it's not valuable doesn't mean it's not special.

Definitely one of my own motivations, whether a raw or slabbed copy.

[MadGenius]

2 hours ago, Chuck Gower said:

It's not even about the slabbing for him, it's the way CGC handled THIS situation. Here's his full explanation he just posted:

"Okay, there’s been some confusion about what happened between myself and the Certified Guartany Company (CGC) at a convention Saturday, partially because of my own hastily composed post on Facebook. So let’s straighten out what happened, at least from my point of view.
  To start off with, I don’t usually charge for signatures at conventions. I’ve always figured the reader buying the book and helping keep me alive merited my autographing it at events like cons. I do charge dealers for signing multiple copies and large numbers of books for resale. I also sometimes have a charity can at my table for donation to certain worthy causes.
  Until yesterday CGC was something other cartoonist complained about. I had very little awareness of them, let alone how they actually operate. Other artists have always urged me to charge CGC for signatures and I finally agreed that I would do so.
  So I was at this convention yesterday and this fan came up with a CGC witness and asked if I would sign his books. We worked out and agreed upon a price. But before I could sign the comics the witness was called away. At that point I did autograph his two comics, with no witness present. The fan then asked if I would hold his books while he bought a third. I did so.
 He then returned and I signed that book (no witness) and the fan went off to find the witness. Both returned and I gave the fan his books. Someone at the table next to me asked me a question as I was doing so and I answered. When I turned back both the fan and the witness were gone, without paying me the agreed upon fee.
  Okay, the fan may have just forgotten to pay. Stuff like that happens. But when I was able to get away from my table a little while later and go over to the CGC table, to ask about finding this fan, a gentleman at the CGC table told me flatly that giving out any information about their clients was against policy. Seeing as how I wasn’t requesting medical records or a social security number I thought this strange. So I returned to my own table to consider the situation.
  Here’s this company that’s charging some very high prices to fans for a very questionable service and making a very healthy profit off what I am giving away for free. I would think such an arrangement would earn me the minimum cooperation in finding this fan. Apparently it didn’t.
  So I returned to the CGC table and told a lady on duty there that I wouldn’t be signing any more books for CGC and asked they send no more witnesses to my table. I would not be cooperating with their enterprise.
  Later this same lady came by my table to try to convince me I was being unreasonable. I wasn’t convinced by her case and said I would no longer cooperate or deal with CGC. At no time did she offer to help find this fan.
  Now some of you fans out there may still want to deal with CGC. That’s your choice, no matter how I think you’re just throwing your money away. But I won’t be signing any books for them. I will do so for other authenticators, at an agreed upon price, but not CGC. I will also continue to sign books for free at cons, occasionally hitting you up for some charity.
  This is a choice for me to make and I have done so. But I really think you ought to go off and buy your own plastic sleeves to entomb your comics in and stop being suckers for this crazy scam."

While it stinks that this fan stiffed Jim Starlin, I'm not sure I see the rationale for his beef with CGC. He's upset that CGC would not help him locate this fan. Is CGC expected to keep tabs on each and every one of the hundreds of customers that use their service at a con? How would CGC go about finding this person once they dropped off their paperwork? If Starlin asked for the person's name, email, telephone number, etc. I can see why CGC might not want to divulge that information. Did Starlin look for this deadbeat himself or did he expect CGC to do all the leg work? He should absolutely be upset with the fan that promised to pay but didn't, but it seems he's more upset with CGC because he perceives they are making "big bucks" off of his signature.

 

[SteppinRazor]

1 hour ago, 1950's war comics said:

I agree and never could understand the logic of grading a modern comic or any other modern collectable

Some people can't understand the logic of slabbing a comic at all.  There's room for everybody

21 minutes ago, MadGenius said:

While it stinks that this fan stiffed Jim Starlin, I'm not sure I see the rationale for his beef with CGC. He's upset that CGC would not help him locate this fan. Is CGC expected to keep tabs on each and every one of the hundreds of customers that use their service at a con? How would CGC go about finding this person once they dropped off their paperwork? If Starlin asked for the person's name, email, telephone number, etc. I can see why CGC might not want to divulge that information. Did Starlin look for this deadbeat himself or did he expect CGC to do all the leg work? He should absolutely be upset with the fan that promised to pay but didn't, but it seems he's more upset with CGC because he perceives they are making "big bucks" off of his signature.

 

The most reasonable thing for CGC's rep to have done is ask what books they were, look them up, and call the guy if his phone number was provided on the submittal form.  It's a con, it's not like they've collected thousands of books and there's an overwhelming number of submissions.  While the rep could explain that he can't divulge information, he would see what he could do and attempt that probably would've resolved the situation.  It's all about how one handles the problem.

[wombat]

Is it CGC's responsibility? Probably not. Did is upset him and make him come to the conclusion he won't deal with CGC any more? Yes. Could Starlin also talk to other artists and it turns out even worse for CGC? Yes. 

This doesn't seem like rocket surgery. 

 

[kav]

"Oh Mr Starlin-wow I am so sorry this happened.  First l want to say we will absolutely reimburse you.  Mixups happen and it's always frustrating but you are not going to be left high and dry I want to say we greatly value our association with you.  I will speak to the rep to make sure this does not happen again.  I will also see if I can contact the customer-I'm not sure what the procedure is as I've never had this happen before.  So how much do I need to give you right now?"

[Semicentennial]

45 minutes ago, wombat said:

Is it CGC's responsibility? Probably not. Did is upset him and make him come to the conclusion he won't deal with CGC any more? Yes. Could Starlin also talk to other artists and it turns out even worse for CGC? Yes. 

This doesn't seem like rocket surgery. 

 

I agree, it wasn't their fault but they could have handled the situation a little better.  

[Dark Prime 0]

40 minutes ago, kav said:

"Oh Mr Starlin-wow I am so sorry this happened.  First l want to say we will absolutely reimburse you.  Mixups happen and it's always frustrating but you are not going to be left high and dry I want to say we greatly value our association with you.  I will speak to the rep to make sure this does not happen again.  I will also see if I can contact the customer-I'm not sure what the procedure is as I've never had this happen before.  So how much do I need to give you right now?"

i agree and don't agree, odd i know

the problem is and this is an example.  i watch a friend and a dealer make a deal on a book and my friend says they need to use an ATM or whatever, later the dealer then comes up to me and demands i pay for the book.  the deal was between the owner of the book and jim, not between jim and cgc so really it isn't cgc's responsiblity to make sure a deal is completed (this is assuming a cgc rep was there when the deal was made AKA that he was aware money was owed)

if anything jim should take this as a learning exp.  1 to find out how SS works instead of all the 2nd hand info he's getting, and 2 collect the money up front.  to me he's basicly throwing a hissy fit over most likely $20 or whatever

i'm not saying cgc is in the clear bc as kav stated they could have handeled it slightly differently, but again starlin is upset bc he didn't get paid and didn't like the answer cgc gave him which is his right

[Mercury Man]

2 hours ago, WeR138 said:

I had a "nothing special" bronze book signed by the artist and slabbed.  It's not going to bring me the big bucks if I were to decide to sell it (which I'm not), but it's importance to me isn't monetary.  It's a book that I distinctly remember having as a kid, and all of it's value is wrapped up in nostalgia.  Just because it's not valuable doesn't mean it's not special.

And that's fine, and I would add that your case is the minority not majority.  

It's still a funny dichotomy to me, that the good stuff in the middle, is the stuff that can't be accessed because we entomb them for whatever reason. 

[kav]

I'm confused about how it works does cgc get paid on the spot do they then turn around and pay creator?

[Dark Prime 0]

1 hour ago, SteppinRazor said:

Some people can't understand the logic of slabbing a comic at all.  There's room for everybody

The most reasonable thing for CGC's rep to have done is ask what books they were, look them up, and call the guy if his phone number was provided on the submittal form.  It's a con, it's not like they've collected thousands of books and there's an overwhelming number of submissions.  While the rep could explain that he can't divulge information, he would see what he could do and attempt that probably would've resolved the situation.  It's all about how one handles the problem.

and you know this how......the problem is when cgc goes to cons they do in fact take in i'd say at min 1k books, at philly last yr wasn't it like 2-3k books or more?

also your assuming that the book/s signed didn't have meny other copies signed that day so to know excatly who to contact could be a problem as well

[Dark Prime 0]

Just now, kav said:

I'm confused about how it works does cgc get paid on the spot do they then turn around and pay creator?

no, cgc got out of being the middle man yrs ago.........cgc is only the wittness, in reality they have no interaction with the signer at all.  if money is owed the person getting the book signed is the one who pays out, the cgc rep is basicly the watcher

[joeypost]

3 hours ago, jsilverjanet said:

I would love to be CGC PR man. It's not like I couldn't do any worse.

Don't sell yourself short. I think you could do much, much worse. 

[kav]

3 minutes ago, Dark Prime 0 said:

no, cgc got out of being the middle man yrs ago.........cgc is only the wittness, in reality they have no interaction with the signer at all.  if money is owed the person getting the book signed is the one who pays out, the cgc rep is basicly the watcher

In that case I dont see why he's mad at CGC at all.

[wombat]

7 minutes ago, Dark Prime 0 said:

i agree and don't agree, odd i know

the problem is and this is an example.  i watch a friend and a dealer make a deal on a book and my friend says they need to use an ATM or whatever, later the dealer then comes up to me and demands i pay for the book.  the deal was between the owner of the book and jim, not between jim and cgc so really it isn't cgc's responsiblity to make sure a deal is completed (this is assuming a cgc rep was there when the deal was made AKA that he was aware money was owed)

if anything jim should take this as a learning exp.  1 to find out how SS works instead of all the 2nd hand info he's getting, and 2 collect the money up front.  to me he's basicly throwing a hissy fit over most likely $20 or whatever

i'm not saying cgc is in the clear bc as kav stated they could have handeled it slightly differently, but again starlin is upset bc he didn't get paid and didn't like the answer cgc gave him which is his right

Here is why your example isn't very relevant. In your example you don't have any future business with that dealer. CGC does want future business with Starlin. They aren't just a disinterested third party who just happened to be hanging around. 

[Dark Prime 0]

basicly kav and while you could prob figure it out i'll do a action by action

i want a book signed, i go to cgc and ask for a wittness.  then me and the wittness walk to the artist to either get the book signed or pick up a sketch, i pay any money owed to the artist.  i and the wittness then walk back to cgc's booth to fill out any paperwork and pay moneys to get my book graded under SS

[Dark Prime 0]

1 minute ago, wombat said:

Here is why your example isn't very relevant. In your example you don't have any future business with that dealer. CGC does want future business with Starlin. They aren't just a disinterested third party who just happened to be hanging around. 

 says who, maybe the dealer has books i want and will pick up off their site later.  plus i can send other people their way who are looking for the types of books they carry.  any dealers i've had good experances with i've always gone back and look at their stuff 1st, that's how you make connections.  i always try to buy at least something off thoes i know and have been rewarded in kind through discounts bc of repeat business, in my example seeing the guy make a deal would put him in my mind of willing to deal and to go back.  after demanding payment in a deal i had nothing to do with i'd tell everyone about it.  there's a dealer who i don't think hits shows anymore who i found annoying and i always skipped over his booth bc of it and i've seen him try his snakeoil bs when buying off someone and that was a turn off as well.  if his name comes up you don't think i kept quite about it?

you're not wrong either though, that's why i said i agree and disagree......i can see both points