GAME OF THRONES Rules Thread 7 7

[Unca Ben]

Just now, jaybuck43 said:

Fun guess but no. Tyrion wanted to help Jamie and Cersei get out. That’s what he asked him to smuggle out.

Oh. The boat.  That makes sense.

[jaybuck43]

For the people who are saying Dani is evil for the way she reacted when her brother received his golden crown. She is absolutely distraught (at least in the books where you can see what’s going on in her head) but she has to remain stoic in front of the Dothraki. She cannot show weakness or sadness in front of Khal Drogo, that does not make good for a khalesi. Basically she feigned ambivalence to save her own life. 

[jaybuck43]

@skypinkblu yes Dani was 13 in book one and (we believe since it’s never outright stated, other then the fact that they now say 17 years have passed since Roberts rebellion) that she is 17 in season 1 of the show.  No idea how much time has passed in total but during the good years (I.e when they had the books to work with) about 5 years have passed. So Dani would be about 22 by the start of season 6. They haven’t given us any hints how much time has passed from then. Could be 6 months could be 3 years. If I had to guess she’s about 24 in show years.

[fantastic_four]

7 hours ago, bentbryan said:

One thing that I really didn’t like 

  Hide contents

Jamie and Cersei taken out by bricks?! C’mon that is pretty lame!

There was a LITTLE more art to it than that.  She wanted to be a queen, but died by holding onto it too long and having her castle collapse on top of her.

[Bosco685]

5 hours ago, skypinkblu said:

OK, maybe she's 21 now, but she's young. I think Jaybuck? mentioned she was 13 in the books, I thought it was 15, but either way.

Time Magazine made an attempt on figuring this out in April.

Exactly How Old Are the Characters on Game of Thrones?

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Arya says that she’s 11 years old on the first season of Game of Thrones. The show has moved at about the pace of one year per season, which means that Arya is currently 18 on Game of Thrones. Maisie Williams, who portrays Arya on the show, is 22 in real life.

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Sansa Stark is two years older than her sister Arya, which means that she’s about 20 years old on the show. Sophie Turner is 23 in real life.

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Bran Stark states that he is 10 years old in the first season of Game of Thrones, which means he’s 18 years old on the show — though does the Three-Eyed Raven really have an age? Regardless, Isaac Hempstead Wright, who plays the greenseer, is 20 years old.

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Daenerys was about 17 years old when the show began: We hear that it’s been 17 years since Robert’s Rebellion — when Dany was born. So she’s about 24 on Game of Thrones now. Actor Emilia Clarke is 32.

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By the same logic, Jon Snow — who was born in the Tower of Joy during Robert’s Rebellion — is also about 24 years old by the time of the Battle of Winterfell. Kit Harington, who plays Jon, is 32 in real life.

This assumes each GoT season covers a new year.

[chrisco37]

7 hours ago, jaybuck43 said:

Hacks of the highest order coasting off of George RR Martin's work.  Absolutely terrible 8th season.  

This.  I thought last nights episode was awful.  The dragon roasting some stuff is always fun to watch, but nothing about the episode last night was any good.  It’s like I’m watching a totally different show than Seasons 1-7.  

A hack job for sure.  

[Doc McCoy]

I wanted to love this episode, but just hated it.

With the exception of the Clegane brothers and their fight to the death, along with Cersei’s stubbornness & denial in the face of utter defeat, once again it felt like the writers have forgotten who these characters are.

For Jon to just stand there as Varys is burned seems like the complete opposite of what someone raised by Ned Stark would do.  They’ve neutered the character since they paired him with Daenerys.

She, meanwhile, has been flipped on her head.  This is a woman that delayed her ascension to the throne on several occasions to protect the innocent and overthrow those holding the yoke.  Yet now she just disregards the surrendering of King’s Landing to go burn innocents because of the perception that a few people may love Jon more?  Screw just flying to the Red Keep to get Cersei, screw trying to preserve the city that you’ve been desperately trying to rule all these years, screw the thought of earning the people’s love.

Then there’s Jaime.  They just threw out his entire redemption arc to go back to Cersei, have a ridiculous fight with Euron and then just seemingly die in a pile of rubble.  All the while dragging down Brienne’s arc by taking her from the first woman to be knighted to a blubbering mess.

Finally, despite killing the Night King, Arya was just transformed back into Little Arya Underfoot, running from soldiers, getting literally caught “underfoot”.  

I’m guessing Daenerys has made her list now, but she better not have to go through Jon to do it.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Doc McCoy

[bane]

12 minutes ago, chrisco37 said:

This.  I thought last nights episode was awful.  The dragon roasting some stuff is always fun to watch, but nothing about the episode last night was any good.  It’s like I’m watching a totally different show than Seasons 1-7.  

A hack job for sure.  

It feels like we have had 7 seasons of complex stories building up and the show runners have decided to focus on the one main plot and hastily end all the other subplots while we rush to a conclusion. There is none of Martins complex writing here. It’s been a season of moments and fan service.

I have enjoyed the episodes I will admit but I just think it could have been much better told over 2 seasons rather than squeezed into 6 episodes simply because the show runners can run off and write their Star Wars trilogy.

[Bosco685]

3 hours ago, Unca Ben said:

This is in character with Dani's journey.  I felt she was broken from nearly the beginning.  If not for Tyrion's advice (which she somewhat followed back then) during the siege of Meereen in Slaver's Bay, she would have "crucified all the masters, set their fleets on fire, killed all their soldiers and returned their cities to dirt"  (her words).  She has shown no restraint in killing anyone who opposes her, or anyone who doesn't "bend the knee" (the murder of Samwell Tarly's dad and brother) - even her cold comment in season one after her brother was killed by the Dothraki - "He wasn't a real Targaryen" - because he didn't survive his "golden crown".  Granted, her brother was a bad guy, treated her extremely poorly, and contributed to her psychological condition, but still, he was her brother and her reaction foreshadowed her later fracturing.  This theme has been carried throughout her story.

I never liked her (much) and look forward to next week.

At first I agreed with this summary. But then I thought back on her full journey.

Daenerys went through a few changes. But one consistent has been her sympathy and care for the people. Look at what happened to Khal Drogo because Dany protected the witch woman, to a fault. And even during the siege of Yunkai and Meereen, she was about the slaves and common people overcoming their rulers, safely. So there was that side of her character that made Dany worth rooting for.

So even though she has experienced betrayal leading to the death of family and close supporters, you hoped that part of her character would balance her Targaryen influence. Even with Jon not wanting a romantic relationship, but more serving as her loyal general on the battlefield and in the royal court. To destroy an entire city population (or close to it), appeared like she lost everything. Which she hadn't. Though with Varys, Tyrion and even Jon telling Sansa of his origins Dany may feel like everyone is betraying her.

I wonder if this season needed a few more episodes to develop the final Dany character, justifying what she did. It just felt like a massive transition from semi-reasonable ruler to outright murderer.

[Bosco685]

The Episode 5 'Inside The Episode' video, revealing some of the show-runners' thoughts.

 

[chrisco37]

22 minutes ago, Doc McCoy said:

I wanted to love this episode, but just hated it.

With the exception of the Clegane brothers and their fight to the death, along with Cersei’s stubbornness & denial in the face of utter defeat, once again it felt like the writers have forgotten who these characters are.

For Jon to just stand there as Varys is burned seems like the complete opposite of what someone raised by Ned Stark would do.  They’ve neutered the character since they paired him with Daenerys.

She, meanwhile, has been flipped on her head.  This is a woman that delayed her ascension to the throne on several occasions to protect the innocent and overthrow those holding the yoke.  Yet now she just disregards the surrendering of King’s Landing to go burn innocents because of the perception that a few people my love Jon more?  Screw just flying to the Red Keep to get Cersei, screw trying to preserve the city that you’ve been desperately trying to rule all these years, screw the thought of earning the people’s love.

Then there’s Jaime.  They just threw out his entire redemption arc to go back to Cersei, have a ridiculous fight with Euron and then just seemingly die in a pile of rubble.  All the while dragging down Brienne’s arc by taking her from the first woman to be knighted to a blubbering mess.

Finally, despite killing the Night King, Arya was just transformed back into Little Arya Underfoot, running from soldiers, getting literally caught “underfoot”.  

I’m guessing Daenerys has made her list now, but she better not have to go through Jon to do it.

  Great post.  

[Sardo Numspar]

The show has become a modern day Lost.

[zhamlau]

It’s funny, this really reminds me of fans reactions to “The Last Jedi”. 

Some people thought it was a brave in-character advancement of the story with exciting new twists, others a rushed non-sensical lazily written destruction of the story they loved and that characters they had grown attached to.

Guess it’s all the perspective of fans love and expectations. We can forgive that which falls in line with our desires, we burn that which confronts and disrespects them.

 

 

[Bosco685]

Qyburn could have been so much more. That to me was a waste of a character.

And the Golden Company serving as stand-in-place shish kabobs seems like a waste. They could have surprised everyone by turning around and attacking Cersei's forces. Or at least surrounding them.

[234wallst]

50 minutes ago, chrisco37 said:

This.  I thought last nights episode was awful.  The dragon roasting some stuff is always fun to watch, but nothing about the episode last night was any good.  It’s like I’m watching a totally different show than Seasons 1-7.  

A hack job for sure.  

For me it's been a different show after it's diverged from the books (a few season ago).  Back to the Lost reference I made earlier; I don't think GRRM really knows how he wants to send the story for all these characters, which is why the books are not completed and why you have all these loose ends to tie up the show.  When the show was following the books, EVERYONE (no matter the name) was subject to risk - it kept you on your toes and added some excitement.  After the books and the show didn't have that guidance, most every long time character was preserved and developed some arc.  Only newly introduced characters were killed off; couldn't risk tampering with fan favorite at this point right?  The Night King's motives were explained in one sentence; for a character built up several seasons ago that's just pathetic.  Killing off so many key characters now in such a short span just proves there was no planning on how all the arcs end.

Edited May 13, 2019 by 234wallst

[Bosco685]

NPR points out something about the end of Episode 4.

'Game Of Thrones' Season 8, Episode 5: 'Let It Be Fear'

Quote

If you watched the "Previously on Game of Thrones," you caught something unusual: Over the shot of a seething Daenerys reacting to Missandei's murder, we heard dialogue from other characters opining on the nature of Daenerys' soul and mind:

• "He has a better claim to the throne." (Varys)
• "Every time a Targaryen is born, the gods flip a coin." (Cersei)
• "The Mad King gave his enemies the justice he thought they deserved." (Ser Barristan Selmy)
• "Children are not their fathers." (Tyrion)
• "Be a dragon." (Olenna Tyrell)
• "You have a gentle heart." (Jorah Mormont)
• "A Targaryen alone in the world is a terrible thing." (Maester Aemon)
• "You don't want to wake the dragon, do you?" (Viserys Targaryen)

Some of those clips came from as far back as Season 1, and they were put here to build suspense in the viewer's mind about Dany's conflicted mental state, and raise the question: What will Daenerys do?

Quote

Except ... we already knew what Dany would do, because the show's been yelling the answer at us all season long. It gave us two of Game of Thrones' most intelligent, pragmatic characters — Sam Tarly and Varys — express strong misgivings about Daenerys's fitness to lead. It then pushed her into a corner by killing off her only friend. They lit her fuse a long time ago — yet they failed to make it seem inevitable. We could tell where the writers were pushing her, but when she got to that destination, and made the decision she did, it felt like a choice imposed by the demands of the plot, not the needs of her character.

 

[Prince Namor]

Seems to me, Daenerys' whole story is about her 'belief' to the RIGHTFUL claim to the throne. Every step of the way. And learning what she needs to do to get to that RIGHTFUL claim to it. Those 'changes' she made were steps, she believed she had to take to learn to be a ruler of the seven kingdoms, not changes in who she really is. She has convinced herself over almost a decade that it is her DESTINY. It is what will be. 

And then to suddenly find out... nope. It's NOT you. Oh by the way it's your lover. Who now doesn't want to love you. And has betrayed you. And it's all going to come crumbling down around you. You are NOT the rightful claim to the throne. The people love Jon, not her... Tyrion failed her, Varys betrayed her, the Starks are conspiring against her and now the one man she truly loved has betrayed her by empowering those people after she specifically told him it WOULD... (add into that Jorah dying in her arms, and Missandei being beheaded right in front of her as she GAVE Cersei a chance to take advantage of her mercy...)

And of course her family has a history of madness.

But was it madness or...as the saying goes... hell hath no fury like a woman scorned... it all made sense to me. It's always been all about what Daenerys wanted vs the rest of the world.

[Unca Ben]

1 hour ago, jaybuck43 said:

For the people who are saying Dani is evil for the way she reacted when her brother received his golden crown. She is absolutely distraught (at least in the books where you can see what’s going on in her head) but she has to remain stoic in front of the Dothraki. She cannot show weakness or sadness in front of Khal Drogo, that does not make good for a khalesi. Basically she feigned ambivalence to save her own life. 

I haven't read the books, so that may be the case.  But Dani has shown the propensity to take no prisoners throughout the show and to use any means necessary to achieve her goals.  Why would she think the people of Westeros would love her?  The daughter of the Mad King, returning with two brutal and savage foreign armies to take back by force what she believes is rightfully hers?   Even when she finds out that there is another with an equal or better claim to the throne, she pursues her goal.
For me, Dani has always been about Dani.  Her ideal of "freeing the people" is just a way to use a good motive to hide a bad one.  She conquered a good portion of Essos before moving her sights to Westeros.  She wants to rule the world, not just Westeros.  And if someone doesn't bend the knee they're toast.  That would've included Jon, but he submitted to her to save the North.

She's a tyrant.  She was always headed that way.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Unca Ben

[fett]

32 minutes ago, bane said:

It feels like we have had 7 seasons of complex stories building up and the show runners have decided to focus on the one main plot and hastily end all the other subplots while we rush to a conclusion. There is none of Martins complex writing here. It’s been a season of moments and fan service.

I have enjoyed the episodes I will admit but I just think it could have been much better told over 2 seasons rather than squeezed into 6 episodes simply because the show runners can run off and write their Star Wars trilogy.

OH NO I just noticed in the credits that Rian Johnson contributed to the plot.  

[Bosco685]