GAME OF THRONES Rules Thread 7 7

[Flaming_Telepath]

6 minutes ago, Kon_Jelly said:

Because in Grey Worm's case his base instincts were trained out of him. He's not supposed to be a "paragon of virtue" - he's supposed to be unemotional/methodical in battle. 

Now if you had said that he took Dany's continued attack as an order to continue fighting, then I could see your argument (I may not agree, but it would make sense). The thought that he went on a rage killing spree is completely opposite of his character, though. 

Grey Worm's lack of emotion went by the wayside when Missandei came into his life. Watch his conduct at the Battle Of Winterfell...watch his expressions and his hesitations.

That is a man for whom life now means something, who values more than just his position. 

To find it...and then have it taken from him...brought him full circle to humanity.

[shadroch]

After last night, I'm hoping the whole continent is revealed as Atlantis and sinks into the ocean.  

[Bosco685]

Interesting.

Lena Headey reacts to that King's Landing battle ending

Quote

“She starts off in this final season trapped in a web of her own making, as is usual with Cersei,”  Headey says. “She’s desperately unhappy and everything that’s happened becomes more real than it ever has for her. She starts to lose control of the situation. She’s destroyed every good alliance, connection, love in her life — she was always destined to be alone. And until the very, very last minute, she is, as ever, in denial of what’s actually happening.”

 

As Daenerys Targaryen (Emilia Clarke) attacks King’s Landing, Jaime (Nikolaj Coster-Waldau) abandons his friend and newfound lover Brienne (Gwendoline Christie) to return to his twin sister in her hour of greatest emotional need. He kills Euron Greyjoy (Pilou Asbeck) and tries to lead her to safety through a secret passage. When they discover the passage is blocked, he comforts Cersei as they wait for the inevitable.

 

Headey says her reaction that final scene was “mixed” at first. “I wanted her to have some big piece or fight with somebody,” she says.

 

But then the actress talked over the scene with Coster-Waldau and came around to appreciating Cersei’s final moments. “The more we talked about it the more it seemed like the perfect end for her,” Headey says. “They came into the world together and now they leave together.”

 

“I think the important thing is that Jaime had a chance at freedom [with Brienne] and finally liberated himself from Cersei, which I think the audience will be thrilled about,” Headey adds. “I think the biggest surprise is he came back for her. Cersei realizes just how she loves him and just how much he loves her. It’s the most authentic connection she’s ever had. Ultimately they belong together.”

 

In that last moment, staring at her brother, waiting for the end, Headey says, “It’s maybe the first time that Cersei has been at peace.”

 

[Kon_Jelly]

3 minutes ago, Flaming_Telepath said:

Grey Worm's lack of emotion went by the wayside when Missandei came into his life. Watch his conduct at the Battle Of Winterfell...watch his expressions and his hesitations.

That is a man for whom life now means something, who values more than just his position. 

 To find it...and then have it taken from him...brought him full circle to humanity.

I see what you are saying, but I feel like that only makes sense if you completely discount the training the Unsullied go through. And the fact that they are castrated to even more remove the possibility. 

[comix4fun]

3 hours ago, Doc McCoy said:

I wanted to love this episode, but just hated it.

With the exception of the Clegane brothers and their fight to the death, along with Cersei’s stubbornness & denial in the face of utter defeat, once again it felt like the writers have forgotten who these characters are.

For Jon to just stand there as Varys is burned seems like the complete opposite of what someone raised by Ned Stark would do.  They’ve neutered the character since they paired him with Daenerys.

She, meanwhile, has been flipped on her head.  This is a woman that delayed her ascension to the throne on several occasions to protect the innocent and overthrow those holding the yoke.  Yet now she just disregards the surrendering of King’s Landing to go burn innocents because of the perception that a few people may love Jon more?  Screw just flying to the Red Keep to get Cersei, screw trying to preserve the city that you’ve been desperately trying to rule all these years, screw the thought of earning the people’s love.

Then there’s Jaime.  They just threw out his entire redemption arc to go back to Cersei, have a ridiculous fight with Euron and then just seemingly die in a pile of rubble.  All the while dragging down Brienne’s arc by taking her from the first woman to be knighted to a blubbering mess.

Finally, despite killing the Night King, Arya was just transformed back into Little Arya Underfoot, running from soldiers, getting literally caught “underfoot”.  

I’m guessing Daenerys has made her list now, but she better not have to go through Jon to do it.

 

I agree 100% with everything else you posted, but the bold part I can't.

If you remember the first season, the first time we meet Ned Stark he's called to attend to a deserting member of the Night's Watch. 

With very little ceremony and zero introspection, investigation or second thought he lops that dude's head off and makes sure his son's are there to watch and learn how those that betray their oath, duty, and loyalty are dealt with. 

[Doc McCoy]

47 minutes ago, Flaming_Telepath said:

Grey Worm's lack of emotion went by the wayside when Missandei came into his life. Watch his conduct at the Battle Of Winterfell...watch his expressions and his hesitations.

That is a man for whom life now means something, who values more than just his position. 

To find it...and then have it taken from him...brought him full circle to humanity.

This was a narrative I can buy into.   The problem with Daenarys last night was that she wasn't shown the same narrative favor.  And it could have been corrected easily.  They could have had a scene where Varys' little birds were delivering his letter throughout the 7 Kingdoms (or at least King's Landing), and shown the common people getting excited about there being a true heir to the throne from Rhaegar Targaryen, who was loved by the commoners.  Then it would have been an easy leap to her burning of Varys, her anger at Jon for letting his secret out (because she had told him it would lead to this) and her reason for torching King's Landing (a combination of Cersei's actions, feeling unloved by the people she thought would cheer her return and being spurned by Jon).

Edited May 13, 2019 by Doc McCoy

[Doc McCoy]

8 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

 

I agree 100% with everything else you posted, but the bold part I can't.

If you remember the first season, the first time we meet Ned Stark he's called to attend to a deserting member of the Night's Watch. 

With very little ceremony and zero introspection, investigation or second thought he lops that dude's head off and makes sure his son's are there to watch and learn how those that betray their oath, duty, and loyalty are dealt with. 

That's a good point, Chris.  So yes, as far as Jon buying into Varys betraying his pledge to Daenarys, I agree, that probably did fall more in line with the Stark way of thinking for him to let it happen and uphold his duty.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Doc McCoy

[skypinkblu]

15 minutes ago, PunisherPunisherPunisher said:

The Mountain is a zombie lol...The Hound did everything he could 

 

When he had the sword in his head and kept going, it got a little silly

[Bosco685]

6 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

 

I agree 100% with everything else you posted, but the bold part I can't.

If you remember the first season, the first time we meet Ned Stark he's called to attend to a deserting member of the Night's Watch. 

With very little ceremony and zero introspection, investigation or second thought he lops that dude's head off and makes sure his son's are there to watch and learn how those that betray their oath, duty, and loyalty are dealt with. 

Exactly the scene that came to mind when I read that. It was his duty as a leader of Westeros.

[comix4fun]

Just now, skypinkblu said:

When he had the sword in his head and kept going, it got a little silly

It got silly even before that.

Several portions of the dialogue and plot would have been well at home in any of several assorted Wrestlemanias, 

[fantastic_four]

1 hour ago, Doc McCoy said:

If you have to explain your story and your story-telling decisions outside of the context of the story itself rather than just letting the story speak for itself then you failed in your narrative.

Yes, because 90% of their audience got Picasso, Shakespeare, Michelangelo, or Mozart on the first go.

Not that I'm saying D & D are in that league.  Just pointing out that quality isn't always immediately self-evident.

[Doc McCoy]

4 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

Yes, because 90% of their audience got Picasso, Shakespeare, Michelangelo, or Mozart on the first go.

Not that I'm saying D & D are in that league.  Just pointing out that quality isn't always immediately self-evident.

  Maybe if Picasso, Shakespeare, Michelangelo or Mozart had an after-show 

[Bosco685]

[comix4fun]

They totally stole the "Ringing of the Bell sets off an unexpected Explosion and Fire Storm" from a much better show...

 

[Doc McCoy]

18 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

It got silly even before that.

Several portions of the dialogue and plot would have been well at home in any of several assorted Wrestlemanias, 

 

[Bosco685]

[Bosco685]

I have a feeling a certain portion of the audience see Jon and Tyrion differently now.

[jcjames]

4 hours ago, Doc McCoy said:

I wanted to love this episode, but just hated it.

With the exception of the Clegane brothers and their fight to the death, along with Cersei’s stubbornness & denial in the face of utter defeat, once again it felt like the writers have forgotten who these characters are.

For Jon to just stand there as Varys is burned seems like the complete opposite of what someone raised by Ned Stark would do.  They’ve neutered the character since they paired him with Daenerys.

She, meanwhile, has been flipped on her head.  This is a woman that delayed her ascension to the throne on several occasions to protect the innocent and overthrow those holding the yoke.  Yet now she just disregards the surrendering of King’s Landing to go burn innocents because of the perception that a few people may love Jon more?  Screw just flying to the Red Keep to get Cersei, screw trying to preserve the city that you’ve been desperately trying to rule all these years, screw the thought of earning the people’s love.

Then there’s Jaime.  They just threw out his entire redemption arc to go back to Cersei, have a ridiculous fight with Euron and then just seemingly die in a pile of rubble.  All the while dragging down Brienne’s arc by taking her from the first woman to be knighted to a blubbering mess.

Finally, despite killing the Night King, Arya was just transformed back into Little Arya Underfoot, running from soldiers, getting literally caught “underfoot”.  

I’m guessing Daenerys has made her list now, but she better not have to go through Jon to do it.

This sums up so much of my same frustrations.

Benioff & Weiss utterly destroyed almost every character's "character" that was built up for the last 6-7 years.

GONE are the episodes of patient story-telling and intricate character development.

SO many well-layed out complex character and story-arcs were just ham-handedly trampled and cast aside this season.

Benioff & Weiss were handed "The Godfather" and they turned it into "Fast & Furious Meets The Transformers".

So bad!

 

[Doc McCoy]

18 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

I have a feeling a certain portion of the audience see Jon and Tyrion differently now.

So, clowns, making a comeback or overly used tropes for GOT Memes?  Discuss.

[zhamlau]

Dany only cared about building an army and killing anyone who stood in her way. “The breaker of chains” was just marketing. She only gave gifts that cost her nothing but she felt helped gain her end goal. Sparing Sams family might have slightly inconvenienced her by allowing someone defy her will publicly, so at least one honorable man had to die screaming and on fire while she thought about what was for lunch.

Cersei either wanted the throne or have it be destroyed, Option A or B. She knew Dany was he fathers daughter. All she had to do was provoke her into getting her and her dragon killed in some wild arrogant offensive giving Cersei desired option A...OR her forces can’t stop them but Danys violent Targaryen tendencies would take over and she would turn the city so against her she could never truly be queen...Cersei got option B.

People wanted Dany to be some hero because they projected that onto her.  This however is not who she ever truly was. She was just a broken person with a core of hurt and fear that drove her. In the end the desire for power and her own fears drove her to their worst natural tendencies.