Collections drying up? 4 4

[1Cool]

52 minutes ago, 01TheDude said:

it is weird to hear known dealers refer to other buyers as flippers. Isn't that pretty much what dealers are and have been since the get go?

The more I read the thread, the less I am inclined to continue filling out my runs or pursuing more books in general. Dealers seems to value books I think of as treasures as common and practically worthless. Perhaps they are to someone who has a stockpile of books and buys massive collections for pennies on the dollar all the time. The more I read these discussions, the more I feel like I am overpaying for everything I buy. Collections drying up? Maybe it is collectors giving up on this system that buys super low and sells at a premium. I understand it is your business but I doubt I will ever sell to a known dealer on this board. They are easy to spot-- only asking for key books in high grade and for a fraction of GPA. People talk about the great deals to be had here but I starting to get skeptical of that line of reason. Time to decide whether to hibernate (again) or offload the collection I guess. Or I could actually just enjoy what I already have and decide what I feel like keeping around.

It is almost like there should be two boards sometimes-- one with the "big shot" dealers (or the wannabes) and one for the basic collector types.

I'm not sure which section of the boards would be more dead.  The dealers would all be over checking out what the collectors are looking for or possibly selling at a discount and the collectors would be over buying the books the big dealers have that they want.  Selling a collection to strictly collectors would be a time consuming and difficult task unless you dropped your prices to pretty much what the dealers would have offered you in the first place.  The comic book market is definitely big enough for everyone to get along.

[the blob]

On 6/13/2017 at 7:21 PM, SteppinRazor said:

Technically, you can't do that.  You have to have had it at the regular price for some time frame (IIRC, 6mos, but that may depend on state/local).  You can up your price at any time, but you can't call it X% off if you never sold it at the listed price.

Yeah, I'm sure the local consumer protection folks are out there are going through the dollar books at shows to make sure of this. You need to do an affidavit for each of the 3000 comics you bring showing its sales history and prior efforts to sell it for $2 that failed.

[Lazyboy]

2 hours ago, spreads said:

I don't know about that, there is a lot of supply of artists and writers that love this medium and want to get into this industry.  I don't think there will ever be a point when Amazing Spiderman is discontinued from lack of talent. 

 

Well, since it hasn't been already...

1 hour ago, 1Cool said:

Is that how the boards use to be?  Collectors selling books to other collectors as a discount compared to the big dealers?  I've been here for awhile and although I do hear people say the boards use to be friendlier I still remember the dealers swooping in and buying up batches of books below market so I don't think much has changed except maybe the number of collectors/sellers has exploded over the last 6-7 years.

I don't know if the boards ever met that ideal, but I know that I used to recognize the names in the Marketplace. Now (when I actually bother to look in there) I'm constantly thinking "Who the are you?" and "How do you have 700 posts and I've never seen any of them?" and other similar things.

1 hour ago, 01TheDude said:

The more I read the thread, the less I am inclined to continue filling out my runs or pursuing more books in general. Dealers seems to value books I think of as treasures as common and practically worthless. Perhaps they are to someone who has a stockpile of books and buys massive collections for pennies on the dollar all the time. The more I read these discussions, the more I feel like I am overpaying for everything I buy. Collections drying up? Maybe it is collectors giving up on this system that buys super low and sells at a premium.

Yeah, as my knowledge of the hobby has increased, I've been buying less and less, for ever-decreasing amounts of money. It's been years since I've gone to a store to buy filler issues, not because I can get them cheaper elsewhere, but because I can get them much cheaper elsewhere.

[FineCollector]

There is definitely a divide between what the collectors and dealers view as valuable.  Remember that for every ComCav dropping a thousand dollars a day on G.A., there are still hundreds of young collectors who aspire to fill a run of Kevin Smith Daredevil, or McFarlane Spideys.  If you can't be bothered to sort your inexpensive books, and think people are going to buy from a mixed box full of brittle bags, you lose the right to say cheap books don't sell.

[spreads]

1 hour ago, jsilverjanet said:

I love how much of the work involved gets lost in these discussions let alone the time and money spent.

 

 

 

That's not true at all, go back a few pages, I made a lengthy post on where I spoke about the weekends spent going over that 20k collection. 

[the blob]

58 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

Well, since it hasn't been already...

I don't know if the boards ever met that ideal, but I know that I used to recognize the names in the Marketplace. Now (when I actually bother to look in there) I'm constantly thinking "Who the are you?" and "How do you have 700 posts and I've never seen any of them?" and other similar things.

Yeah, as my knowledge of the hobby has increased, I've been buying less and less, for ever-decreasing amounts of money. It's been years since I've gone to a store to buy filler issues, not because I can get them cheaper elsewhere, but because I can get them much cheaper elsewhere.

One day a filler issue, the next day a treasure!

 

[october]

1 hour ago, FineCollector said:

 If you can't be bothered to sort your inexpensive books, and think people are going to buy from a mixed box full of brittle bags, you lose the right to say cheap books don't sell.

Selling a book for $10 and selling a book for $1000 takes approximately the same amount of time and effort. It's not surprising that many dealers emphasize the latter. No matter how cheap your "cheap" books cost you, you don't fill your wallet with margin. It takes an enormous amount of effort to make $5000 selling dollar books, and a tiny fraction of that effort to sell five $1000 books. 

Edited June 15, 2017 by october

[the blob]

Is that how the boards use to be?  Collectors selling books to other collectors as a discount compared to the big dealers?  I've been here for awhile and although I do hear people say the boards use to be friendlier I still remember the dealers swooping in and buying up batches of books below market so I don't think much has changed except maybe the number of collectors/sellers has exploded over the last 6-7 years.

--

For raws, most people used to build in a 10-20% discount vs. ebay and some people were selling them like they were at a show blowing books out.  Sometimes just mispriced.  Less of a discount on high grade harder to find stuff. I have gotten some tremendous deals on these boards, although i only pop in to buy once in a while.

When I sold a bunch a few years ago half my sales were to dealers, maybe looking for specific books to have for a show (or maybe want list customers). I was generally listing keys and semi-keys. If they know they have a sale they may pay a better % of FMV than a flipper. When a dealer pays $75 for a GOTG #1 when it is usually a $100 book on ebay you figure they know they have a $100-$120 sale lined up.

[jsilverjanet]

1 hour ago, spreads said:

That's not true at all, go back a few pages, I made a lengthy post on where I spoke about the weekends spent going over that 20k collection. 

:

Edited June 15, 2017 by jsilverjanet

[the blob]

14 minutes ago, october said:

Selling a book for $10 and selling a book for $1000 takes approximately the same amount of time and effort. It's not surprising that many dealers emphasize the latter. No matter how cheap your "cheap" books cost you, you don't fill your wallet with margin. It takes an enormous amount of effort to make $5000 selling dollar books, and a tiny fraction of that effort to sell five $1000 books. 

Many dealers manage to do both just fine.  Zapp sells his cheapies and better stuff in an organized and professional manner, for example. The stuff on the wall makes the real money, I know, but $50, $100, $200 there for piles of cheapies can't hurt.

 

14 minutes ago, october said:

 It takes an enormous amount of effort to make $5000 selling dollar books, and a tiny fraction of that effort to sell five $1000 books. 

The effort is finding those $1,000 books at a price that gives you a profit margin.

 

But yeah, unless you get the dollar stuff for free-ish, I can't imagine doing that as your main line. maybe in boxes under the table that has the better stuff on top.

 

Edited June 15, 2017 by the blob

[Lazyboy]

10 minutes ago, the blob said:

One day a filler issue, the next day a treasure!

 

No, I mean run fillers, not keys that haven't yet (or again, in some cases) seen a large price increase. I still buy/bought those.

[Hamlet]

1 hour ago, the blob said:

Many dealers manage to do both just fine.  Zapp sells his cheapies and better stuff in an organized and professional manner, for example. The stuff on the wall makes the real money, I know, but $50, $100, $200 there for piles of cheapies can't hurt.

 

The effort is finding those $1,000 books at a price that gives you a profit margin.

 

But yeah, unless you get the dollar stuff for free-ish, I can't imagine doing that as your main line. maybe in boxes under the table that has the better stuff on top.

 

I gotta think that most dealers sell the dollar books mainly because they end up with lots of them buying collections to get the keys.  

So they probably think of them as free-ish.

And then I "cherry pick" their dollar box for books I think could sell for $3.  I read those books, bag and board them, and put them in a box in my comic room for the day a decade down the road when I actually have the time and energy to set up at a convention to find out if anyone else agrees that they are worth more than a dollar.

I'm a low-value flipper that never actually gets around to the flipping part. ?

[the blob]

1 hour ago, Lazyboy said:

No, I mean run fillers, not keys that haven't yet (or again, in some cases) seen a large price increase. I still buy/bought those.

But some stuff that appears to be a run filler then becomes a semi-key later.  There are A LOT of obscure 1st and 2d apps out there that nobody cares about.  And then one day this obscure character gets featured in X-Men or Avengers and gets popular.  I'm not saying buy books on this basis, but it happens.  Squirrel Girl's 1st app was a quarter box book, so was Hulk 271.

Just grabbing some random worthless books out of a pile in my office..

Web of Spider-Man Annual 4 - 1st App of "Poison" (Cecilia Cardinale)..a character I have never heard of that has apparently made 18 appearances that I have never heard of.  Maybe they actually do something interesting with her one day?

Quasar 3 - 1st Kayla Ballantine, later Starbrand..54 appearances (mostly in Quasar, true)

Detective 616 - 1st C'th the Undying 7 appearances

X-Men 300 -- 1st app of a zillion Acolytes

Sub-Mariner 32 - first Llyra - She has made 58 appearances! Very few of the ebay listings even mention it is her 1st app.

1970s Thors are a real hotbed of obscure 1sts as well as Batmans from the 70s and 80s

I understand your point and you're right, other than Walking Dead comics, which seem to command a nice price for anything under issue #100, and a few others, generic issues outside of maybe super HG can be tough sells.  It's a shame, because as a collector who enjoys the medium (I'm the guy with at least 2 long boxes of non-BWS conans..) there is a lot of good stuff in these books,

 

 

 

 

 

[Hamlet]

6 minutes ago, Hamlet said:

I gotta think that most dealers sell the dollar books mainly because they end up with lots of them buying collections to get the keys.  

So they probably think of them as free-ish.

And then I "cherry pick" their dollar box for books I think could sell for $3.  I read those books, bag and board them, and put them in a box in my comic room for the day a decade down the road when I actually have the time and energy to set up at a convention to find out if anyone else agrees that they are worth more than a dollar.

I'm a low-value flipper that never actually gets around to the flipping part. ?

Here is today's haul out of the dollar and 50 cent boxes (16 books for $14).  If read them all and then sell them in my own dollar box ten years from now, is that a win? ?

[the blob]

9 minutes ago, Hamlet said:

I gotta think that most dealers sell the dollar books mainly because they end up with lots of them buying collections to get the keys.  

So they probably think of them as free-ish.

And then I "cherry pick" their dollar box for books I think could sell for $3.  I read those books, bag and board them, and put them in a box in my comic room for the day a decade down the road when I actually have the time and energy to set up at a convention to find out if anyone else agrees that they are worth more than a dollar.

I'm a low-value flipper that never actually gets around to the flipping part. ?

I'm talking about guys who devote prime table space to them.

But who the heck am I to judge?  There are a couple of these guys who manage to do NYCC every year, so if they can make money selling dollar books at NYCC then there is a method to the madness.  And it's true, I buy a big stack of books from these guys every year.  Last year (or maybe the year before?), one of them had like 12 copies of MCP 72, which I snagged, although I probably lost all my profit then proceeding to buy multiples of all the other Weapon X issues.  Another guy had tons of Bone (not super early issues) from the CB run in lovely condition..I have no idea what they're worth, but I couldn't pass on those.  I also buy a lot of junk.  It's almost like I want to be a $2 box guy when I grow up.

[the blob]

4 minutes ago, Hamlet said:

Here is today's haul out of the dollar and 50 cent boxes (16 books for $14).  If read them all and then sell them in my own dollar box ten years from now, is that a win? ?

I see some $3-$5 potential in there if they aren't water stained and what not.  That Superman Neal Adams is a good one and the Punisher Captain America one.  The Hobgoblin Spideys don't get as much love as they used to, but 5 movies from now when they feature him...

[Hamlet]

1 minute ago, the blob said:

I see some $3-$5 potential in there if they aren't water stained and what not.  That Superman Neal Adams is a good one and the Punisher Captain America one.  The Hobgoblin Spideys don't get as much love as they used to, but 5 movies from now when they feature him...

Most of them are aren't in great shape, but not awful.  I figure if I read them and a few are actually decent reads, I got my money's worth.  The Spideys are pretty nice and I love the Hobgoblin, so I couldn't pass them up ( which is a little crazy, since I have at least two of them already).  The ASM 260 is actually the first book I bought of the stands when I started collecting.  

 

[the blob]

3 minutes ago, Hamlet said:

Most of them are aren't in great shape, but not awful.  I figure if I read them and a few are actually decent reads, I got my money's worth.  The Spideys are pretty nice and I love the Hobgoblin, so I couldn't pass them up ( which is a little crazy, since I have at least two of them already).  The ASM 260 is actually the first book I bought of the stands when I started collecting.  

 

Yeah, I keep on buying those issues when I see them cheap, but they might have peaked 25 years ago...

[Hamlet]

2 minutes ago, the blob said:

Yeah, I keep on buying those issues when I see them cheap, but they might have peaked 25 years ago...

Yup, kinda like the McFarlane Spideys. 

[SteppinRazor]

10 hours ago, spreads said:

I don't know about that, there is a lot of supply of artists and writers that love this medium and want to get into this industry.  I don't think there will ever be a point when Amazing Spiderman is discontinued from lack of talent. 

 

It's not going to be a quick death.  But I think you can already see a quality drop, and I think you can already see artists (including writers in that) preferring self-publishing or publishing through Image to maintain creative rights.  Who wants to generate the next Venom and make Marvel millions, Disney a hundred million, and themselves a few hundred dollars?

7 hours ago, the blob said:

Yeah, I'm sure the local consumer protection folks are out there are going through the dollar books at shows to make sure of this. You need to do an affidavit for each of the 3000 comics you bring showing its sales history and prior efforts to sell it for $2 that failed.

It is unlikely, but ignorance doesn't let you off a fine.