• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

(attempted) Flip of the Day!
12 12

2,075 posts in this topic

I dont wanna shame anyone, but I am curious about peoples thoughts on this situation.

Some of you may have seen this play out on Facebook already.

But - The artist who did the Ninja Turtles Last Ronin held a private sale, in a private group, where he sold a bunch of pages 80%-90% off market value from the first issue, to collectors who otherwise would never have had a shot. (Im sure you can see where Im going with this.) A few days ago one of those collectors posts a page he scored from this sale to his FB. Tagging the artists. Talking about how grateful he is yada yada.... Five days later its listed for sale. Highest offer was 1k. (Which is right around what its worth IMO.)  Then the seller decided he didnt wanna sell it, but would trade it for a nice Mignola or Art Adams or artists of similar caliber... So this piece went from 150 to 1000 in five days. Then in the span of a 1 minute decision,  jumped from 1k to costing 3k+ in lopsided trade. (So clearly this guy doesnt need the money either, he's just trying to maximize his return.)

My question to you is, if he were to make a 2000% profit off this scenario, is there any moral obligation to give the artists some of the profit, considering said artist sacrificed that profit specifically so a true fan could own a piece of his work / TMNT history they would otherwise never have had a shot at it?

Edited by Khazano
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Khazano said:

I dont wanna shame anyone, but I am curious about peoples thoughts on this situation.

Some of you may have seen this play out on Facebook already.

But - The artist who did the Ninja Turtles Last Ronin held a private sale, in a private group, where he sold a bunch of pages 80%-90% off market value from the first issue, to collectors who otherwise would never have had a shot. (Im sure you can see where Im going with this.) A few days ago one of those collectors posts a page he scored from this sale to his FB. Tagging the artists. Talking about how grateful he is yada yada.... Five days later its listed for sale. Highest offer was 1k. (Which is right around what its worth IMO.)  Then the seller decided he didnt wanna sell it, but would trade it for a nice Mignola or Art Adams or artists of similar caliber... So this piece went from 150 to 1000 in five days. Then in the span of a 1 minute decision,  jumped from 1k to costing 3k+ in lopsided trade. (So clearly this guy doesnt need the money either, he's just trying to maximize his return.)

My question to you is, if he were to make a 2000% profit off this scenario, is there any moral obligation to give the artists some of the profit, considering said artist sacrificed that profit specifically so a true fan could own a piece of his work / TMNT history they would otherwise never have had a shot at it?

That's a crappy thing to do, but of course no, no one has a "moral obligation" for selling property they own.

Unless they signed contracts or made promises?

Art is a bit of a luxury item and they're not price gouging on food during a famine.

I'm not familiar with this art, and I'd rather the artist charged a fair or above price so this didn't happen, but they're not stupid and knew this was a possibility.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Twanj said:

That's a crappy thing to do, but of course no, no one has a "moral obligation" for selling property they own.

Unless they signed contracts or made promises?

Art is a bit of a luxury item and they're not price gouging on food during a famine.

I'm not familiar with this art, and I'd rather the artist charged a fair or above price so this didn't happen, but they're not stupid and knew this was a possibility.

Well, yeah,  one can argue theres no such thing as moral obligation at all in any facet of life. Survival of the fittest and all that.  

So I guess thats a check next too,  collectors doesn't owe artists anything, its the artists mistake for being generous/naive. For what its worth, I dont know what the answer is, cause A> the flip wouldnt stop me from buying it and B> if I were to buy the page, I wouldnt worry about whether the artist got a share of my money.  So am I just as "bad".... (shrug)

I would disagree with artists knowing exactly how much the art is worth. Before this, his pages fetched 300 on a good day. He may have not truly realized what he was giving away. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Khazano said:

Well, yeah,  one can argue theres no such thing as moral obligation at all in any facet of life. Survival of the fittest and all that.  

So I guess thats a check next too,  collectors doesn't owe artists anything, its the artists mistake for being generous/naive. For what its worth, I dont know what the answer is, cause A> the flip wouldnt stop me from buying it and B> if I were to buy the page, I wouldnt worry about whether the artist got a share of my money.  So am I just as "bad".... (shrug)

I would disagree with artists knowing exactly how much the art is worth. Before this, his pages fetched 300 on a good day. He may have not truly realized what he was giving away. 

We live in a world where things are bought and sold for less and more...That's commerce, not morality.

Unless there was some deception involved.

I thought you were saying the artist sold low priced on purpose so people would get a shot that normally wouldn't. Didn't realize he sold them low unknowingly - altho that still doesn't change the morality of the situation. But that is unfortunate for the artist.

See BWS's TAR (Transfer Agreement and Record - "Pay Artist fifteen (15) % of the “gross art profit,” if any, on the transfer") https://www.beatzo.net/blog/2006/11/on-barry-windsor-smith-and-on-art-ownership/ - it hasn't proved popular.

I think artists should get as much as possible for their art. Or hold on to it longer and gamble that it'll be worth more in the future...of course, it could be worth less. That's the nature of it.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Twanj said:

 

I thought you were saying the artist sold low priced on purpose so people would get a shot that normally wouldn't. Didn't realize he sold them low unknowingly - altho that still  

 

I am saying that. Im only speculating that he was unaware of the price. I dont know that for a fact. (Although I strongly suspect it.)  No,  the gray area for me is, he made it VERY clear during the sale that this was so his real fans could own a piece of art. He literally did not allow anyone who didnt participate in the group discussions or joined within the last few months to buy it. There was a very clear line being verbalized and drawn about the purpose of these pages being so cheap.  Ive never really seen a circumstance like this before in 20 years. So, I was curious what the consensus is. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, grapeape said:

Wait vinyls are back in? When did they go out? And don’t even start with that new fangeled 8  track tape business.Sure sure everyone today has one but ole grapeape sticks to his guns. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.

Only live traveling minstrels for me. You kids today, don't know how good it was and could be again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/28/2020 at 6:52 AM, zhamlau said:

I don’t think that’s attempted at that point. Bought under market and found a buyer. Mission accomplished.

Already back on sale...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/133619611773

I agree, for this time, it's not a attempt for a (new) flip ! :-)

(I hope the 3rd owner of this board this year will not loose money - reserve price ? - and that this beauty will find somebody who intent to keep it) 

Edited by Ecclectica
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
12 12