(attempted) Flip of the Day! 12 12

[comicwiz]

12 hours ago, comix4fun said:

 

 

Well, thoughts on this..... 

1) What the hell does CGC have to do with a random  mid-low-end bronze horror page? 

2) I think the seller might be a little misguided in his market analysis when he states 

"When you say Steve Ditko Bronze Age horror page, you say $ cha-ching $"

 

Definitely same thoughts here, just wondered if the seller saw someone post it here and altered the title to show their disapproval.

[John E.]

4 hours ago, Kwan Chang said:

@Jay Olie Espy of course it made a difference.   when steve b. bought it from heritage.  im sure he thought they were original stats as there was nothing stating that they were replacements or not "original stats"

So let me get this straight. Adding $100 replacement stats adds a 5-fold value to a piece. HA isn't able to catch the replacement stat, or is fooled by them, or doesn't care at all.

And yet, no one is doing this?:

Or going out and adding stats to their current "virgin" pieces?

Funny how the standards vary from piece to piece.

[comix4fun]

3 hours ago, comicwiz said:

Definitely same thoughts here, just wondered if the seller saw someone post it here and altered the title to show their disapproval.

Naw, I checked his revisions, the auction title hasn't changed. He's one of them "Keyword Sniffers" 

[malvin]

12 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

Naw, I checked his revisions, the auction title hasn't changed. He's one of them "Keyword Sniffers" 

Ya, I've seen his auctions for awhile now, he always has those words in the title for whatever reason.

Malvin

[Kwan Chang]

36 minutes ago, Jay Olie Espy said:

So let me get this straight. Adding $100 replacement stats adds a 5-fold value to a piece. HA isn't able to catch the replacement stat, or is fooled by them, or doesn't care at all.

And yet, no one is doing this?:

Or going out and adding stats to their current "virgin" pieces?

Funny how the standards vary from piece to piece.

Thanks for replying.....but this is how i see it.

@Jay Olie Espy im not sure when the stats were added ?  but i do 1000% remember that the stats were not original to the piece when i sold it.   who is supposed to inform heritage ?  the seller ?  im not blaming anyone for this but.....when consigned to heritage, im pretty sure they just scan and put it up for sale.   maybe the cover has changed hands several times and this new owner doesnt even know that these are replacement stats.  is it the responsibility of the consignor ? maybe the consignor didnt know they were replacement stats ?  IMO...........who ever put the stats on the piece should let the buyer know what they are. PERIOD

 

 

[lobrac]

The HA listing on the Firestorm cover says: "Logotype appears on a transparent overlay."

But it's still unclear if they are original (I usually assume not in this case) or replacement.

[John E.]

1 minute ago, lobrac said:

The HA listing on the Firestorm cover says: "Logotype appears on a transparent overlay."

But it's still unclear if they are original (I usually assume not in this case) or replacement.

Based on my own observation and nothing else, the practice of adding trade dress was gone by 1988. Covers from this era, particularly from DC, have overlays. I guess the lesson I take from this is don’t assume the overlay is original, esp. the overlays don’t have other types of art patches. 

[malvin]

I know it presents better, but I don't understand the mentality of buyers who would pay more for an OA with cover dress (beyond the ~$200 cost of a cover dress).

I thought about getting some done for covers I might sell, but since the covers I sell are only typically priced from ~$1K to $2K I didn't think it was worth it. (as in I wasn't confident the new price I can sell the cover for would justify the cost of the cover dress).

But others do it, and it seems to work for them.

Malvin

[Panelfan1]

2 hours ago, malvin said:

I know it presents better, but I don't understand the mentality of buyers who would pay more for an OA with cover dress (beyond the ~$200 cost of a cover dress).

I thought about getting some done for covers I might sell, but since the covers I sell are only typically priced from ~$1K to $2K I didn't think it was worth it. (as in I wasn't confident the new price I can sell the cover for would justify the cost of the cover dress).

But others do it, and it seems to work for them.

Malvin

I think coolines does it on every piece - including some pieces that never should have had any logos. so it has to work.

Edited January 21, 2018 by Panelfan1

[Kwan Chang]

13 minutes ago, Panelfan1 said:

I think coolines does it on every piece - including some pieces that never should have had any logos. so it has to work.

they have bought several covers from me and within a month of the sale....i see "logos" on the art for sale (i mean trade only)

take a look at their website...........................  ALL OF THEIR COVERS has stats and logos on them !!

they should really let the customers know that the stats are not original.  but thats just another thing of the long list of things that they should do.

BUYER BEWARE !

k

[comix4fun]

8 minutes ago, Kwan Chang said:

they have bought several covers from me and within a month of the sale....i see "logos" on the art for sale (i mean trade only)

take a look at their website...........................  ALL OF THEIR COVERS has stats and logos on them !!

they should really let the customers know that the stats are not original.  but thats just another thing of the long list of things that they should do.

BUYER BEWARE !

k

All their covers...

then they added logos to con sketches, prelims, commissions, never weres, never gonna be’s, doodles on napkins. Etc etc

 

Edited January 21, 2018 by comix4fun

[alxjhnsn]

Yep, it's SOP for the DBs. Here's an example: 

 

 

[Kwan Chang]

1 minute ago, comix4fun said:

All their covers...

then they added logoz to con sketches, prelims, commissions, never weres, never gonna be’s, doodles on napkins. Etc etc

 

Don't forget......its now an "UNPUBLISHED COVER" 

[malvin]

5 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

All their covers...

then they added logos to con sketches, prelims, commissions, never weres, never gonna be’s, doodles on napkins. Etc etc

 

yup, +1

Malvin

[comicwiz]

5 hours ago, Jay Olie Espy said:

So let me get this straight. Adding $100 replacement stats adds a 5-fold value to a piece. HA isn't able to catch the replacement stat, or is fooled by them, or doesn't care at all.

And yet, no one is doing this?:

Or going out and adding stats to their current "virgin" pieces?

Funny how the standards vary from piece to piece.

I've tried bringing attention to this, and I'm sure I'm not the first, but was told by most responding in that thread it was much ado about nothing.

In my opinion, there is no doubt this level of undisclosed tampering devalues the pieces they "handle", particularly as their practices have cemented them a reputation where they continue to tamper with pieces and don't seem to care to course correct or honestly address the concerns brought forward.

 

[malvin]

8 minutes ago, comicwiz said:

I've tried bringing attention to this, and I'm sure I'm not the first, but was told by most responding in that thread it was much ado about nothing.

In my opinion, there is no doubt this level of undisclosed tampering devalues the pieces they "handle", particularly as their practices have cemented them a reputation where they continue to tamper with pieces and don't seem to care to course correct or honestly address the concerns brought forward.

 

I was going to type something then I realized I already expressed the same thought in the first reply to that thread.  But adding cover dress as an overlay is not a modification or tampering in my mind and has no negative impact on the value.

I question the amount of positive impact, but I do not believe that it has any negative impact at all.

Malvin

 

[comix4fun]

50 minutes ago, malvin said:

I was going to type something then I realized I already expressed the same thought in the first reply to that thread.  But adding cover dress as an overlay is not a modification or tampering in my mind and has no negative impact on the value.

I question the amount of positive impact, but I do not believe that it has any negative impact at all.

Malvin

 

Given that logos and trade dress were always photocopies and stats and never original art, replacing them means nothing to me. 
You never want the original art harmed but adding a copy of something that was a copy to begin with doesn't have a negative impact and will only have a positive impact in the same way staging a house with furniture and houseplants will help people who can't imagine what it would look like without them. 

I have a problem adding logos and trade dress to unpublished pieces, and commissions, and calling them "unused/rejected covers" of course, but putting a published piece back to what it looked like is not a big deal. 

[aokartman]

Sadly, the reworked art pieces that return to the market, and are revealed to be tweaked, send a cautionary message about all comic art on the market for people entering the original comic book art area of collectibility.

Quite possibly depressing the desirability of the genre.   

Unsure, David

[Kwan Chang]

2 hours ago, comix4fun said:

Given that logos and trade dress were always photocopies and stats and never original art, replacing them means nothing to me. 
You never want the original art harmed but adding a copy of something that was a copy to begin with doesn't have a negative impact and will only have a positive impact in the same way staging a house with furniture and houseplants will help people who can't imagine what it would look like without them. 

I have a problem adding logos and trade dress to unpublished pieces, and commissions, and calling them "unused/rejected covers" of course, but putting a published piece back to what it looked like is not a big deal. 

@comix4fun  i agree.  but dont sell a piece with the presumption that the logos were originally put on by the production process when the covers was drawn.  by adding a logo to make the cover look like when it was originally done......cool. i also have no problem with that.  just have full disclosure ya know ?  thats just the right thing to do.

 

 i do disagree with the "logos and trade dress were never original art".....they were at times drawn in.  very rare.  but they do exist.  artists who incorporate the title in the drawings draw the logos and trade dress in.  chris bachalo did this all the time.  im sure others did this too.  a quick search came up with the following image.

does anyone have other covers that have logos that were "hand drawn" ??

[comix4fun]

35 minutes ago, Kwan Chang said:

@comix4fun  i agree.  but dont sell a piece with the presumption that the logos were originally put on by the production process when the covers was drawn.  by adding a logo to make the cover look like when it was originally done......cool. i also have no problem with that.  just have full disclosure ya know ?  thats just the right thing to do.

 

 i do disagree with the "logos and trade dress were never original art".....they were at times drawn in.  very rare.  but they do exist.  artists who incorporate the title in the drawings draw the logos and trade dress in.  chris bachalo did this all the time.  im sure others did this too.  a quick search came up with the following image.

does anyone have other covers that have logos that were "hand drawn" ??

Right, I was referring to the ones being shown, and almost all Gold/Silver/Bronze artwork where the logos and trade dress were recycled from issue to issue. 

I wasn't really talking about the ones that were original drawings on the board.