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(attempted) Flip of the Day!
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Started by Lee B.,

2,088 posts in this topic

Flambit

Flambit

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, vodou said:

 

*Speaking of everyday 'real life' expenses...ever have yourself buried in the world of comic art, auctions, prices, deep deep thought, etc. and then have something real come up you need to buy and THWACK! (to the head) it feels almost free? Basic lawnmowers $250, mid-range snowblowers $500, etc. I find myself forgetting how actually expensive comic art is, until something real puts it (back) into perspective and that reminds me why everybody else that doesn't collect (anything) thinks we're all nuts! Anybody else? And yeah...will the Millenial job/income demographics ever really support taking this stuff off our hands en masse and (what we feel is) FMV? Like Gene, I feel that could be a problem...lotsa multiples of $250 and $500 in this room (collectively)...not sure if the other side is/will be so ready 'n willing.

You're not kidding.  I've certainly been guilty of compartmentalizing/rationalizing art purchases vs literally anything else in my life (at times).  On one hand, I'd agonize for days about spending three figures on a household appliance I need, and then later find myself on caf musing, "Gosh, I wonder if the owner of that piece would ONLY take sixty thousand dollars?" 

Not that I have the 60k to offer.

I've always thought that we use the abbreviation "k" to sort of disconnect us from how insane some of these figures we throw around are.  It's like the "k" is almost meaningless.  Oh, it's just 100k. 

Not that I have 100k either!

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vodou

vodou

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Flambit said:

I've always thought that we use the abbreviation "k" to sort of disconnect us from how insane some of these figures we throw around are.  It's like the "k" is almost meaningless.

:) ha ha. I agree, k is a nice way of pretending it's not a down-payment or even larger % of a rather nice house anywhere in between the two coasts.

But we're not the only ones. Every time you see a government refer to "t", well that's just a way of pretending the national debt is manageable and could be paid back ;)

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SquareChaos

SquareChaos

Posted
Posted

I don't think I'll ever be involved enough to easily forget what those numbers mean, even in this context. Getting over the cost of playing at even the very low level I play at was a significant barrier to entry for me, and as is, I avoided making that first OA purchase for years, until I felt well enough established career and finances wise. A big part of finally taking the plunge was my girlfriends repeated insistence that I work hard and deserve to spend some of it on something that I love, which is good, because I can always insist that she share the blame if I go over budget one month lol

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Claudio

Claudio

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, SquareChaos said:

I don't think I'll ever be involved enough to easily forget what those numbers mean, even in this context. Getting over the cost of playing at even the very low level I play at was a significant barrier to entry for me, and as is, I avoided making that first OA purchase for years, until I felt well enough established career and finances wise. A big part of finally taking the plunge was my girlfriends repeated insistence that I work hard and deserve to spend some of it on something that I love, which is good, because I can always insist that she share the blame if I go over budget one month lol

Marry her!!!! That way you always have a partner in crime

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Flambit

Flambit

Posted
Posted
On 7/7/2017 at 5:09 PM, vodou said:

:) ha ha. I agree, k is a nice way of pretending it's not a down-payment or even larger % of a rather nice house anywhere in between the two coasts.

 

https://www.buzzfeed.com/juliegerstein/heres-what-a-100k-house-looks-like-in-all-50-states?utm_term=.iyodwJXyG#.nv2doEwrx

And just think: you'd have to trade 1-4 of these (depending on the negotiations) for the Batman Adventures #12 cover!

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lobrac

lobrac

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Posted

Hi, I'm a Swan-Hunt Superman page. You may have met me on Heritage last month:

https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/curt-swan-and-dave-hunt-superman-382-page-3-original-art-dc-1983-/a/121726-14119.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

Now you can find me on my new home, eBay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Curt-Swan-Dave-Hunt-SUPERMAN-pg-3-DC-1983-Original-Art-/132257074232?hash=item1ecb22cc38:g:jLwAAOSwcj5ZWux4

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Lee B.

Lee B.

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Posted
10 hours ago, lobrac said:

Hi, I'm a Swan-Hunt Superman page. You may have met me on Heritage last month:

https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/curt-swan-and-dave-hunt-superman-382-page-3-original-art-dc-1983-/a/121726-14119.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

Now you can find me on my new home, eBay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Curt-Swan-Dave-Hunt-SUPERMAN-pg-3-DC-1983-Original-Art-/132257074232?hash=item1ecb22cc38:g:jLwAAOSwcj5ZWux4

Now this is a flip I can get behind.  I was shocked by the closing price on that Heritage auction.  A page like that should have gone for at least $400.  $549 might be pushing it a bit, but it is within the range of non-offensiveness.  Best, Lee

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SquareChaos

SquareChaos

Posted
Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Lee B. said:

Now this is a flip I can get behind.  I was shocked by the closing price on that Heritage auction.  A page like that should have gone for at least $400.  $549 might be pushing it a bit, but it is within the range of non-offensiveness.  Best, Lee

I thought it did sell for around $400? At least that is what I see when I click the HA link.

Edited by SquareChaos
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PhilipB2k17

PhilipB2k17

Posted
Posted
On 6/18/2017 at 4:43 AM, MYNAMEISLEGION said:

feed my family! please, cry me a river.  I have no problem whatsoever calling out egregious flipping, especially for ridiculous mark-ups.  It's mostly more the the benefit of others so that they don't get taken in by it.  If a $500 page won in an open auction, not a flea market find, or otherwise tucked away is suddenly $2500 mere weeks later, it's fair game for comment, if not outright ridicule.  I've sold and traded art with people over the years, and I've actively avoided dealing with certain people that I know to be flippers, especially if they try to haggle with me and give me some sob story about how much they are a fan of the page, and it's their grail etc, when I know full well they intend to flip it for more immediately.  And if some guys what to trade with me and values his art at his marked up price, not what the recent sale price was in HA or Clink, good luck with that. Don't waste my time.

on the flip side (pun intended) I've had collectors let me know they were going to sell or trade something they got from me ( years after the fact) in case I wanted it back, or had any issue with them doing so. That shows some class. Those are the guys I like to deal with.  I've made deals that were probably not to my personal advantage where I knew the other party genuinely wanted a particular piece of art, and I'm fine with that.  But when you have guys bidding up decent pages in HA and Clink only to flip them for ridiculous mark-up's before they even have them in hand, yeah, I'm gonna call it out. Its bad for the hobby in the long run.  

:sumo:

If you are going to sell a piece of art, why would you not at least try to make a profit? 

It makes sense to me that people will list stuff at a markup to try and make their money back plus some profit. 

And the amount of markup, to me, is irrelevant because I am not going to pay that. So what do I care? It seems to me that folks who get upset about it are angry that they might have sold a piece to cheaply. 

I have only been a serious OA collector for about a year. And I have yet to sell any of my pieces. Maybe when I do, and I get burned by a flipper, I'll worry about it. Until then, buyer beware! 

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PhilipB2k17

PhilipB2k17

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 6/18/2017 at 3:52 PM, Twanj said:

I agree that this is the bare minimum. Someone new to the hobby won't understand at all.

I bought a page that is inks over blue lines without disclosure. it's a pretty big bummer.

I can't imagine if I paid $5k for a cover, then tried to flip it for $8-10k. absolutely heartbreaking.

Frankly, it's put me off buying more modern pages. I'm just always a bit suspicious. It sucks.

I've actually gone to the extent of contacting the penciller and inkers involved to research pieces before making offers. Or buying directly from the artist or his or her broker. And that is not even on the more expensive stuff, which I have shied away from until I know a lot more about the market and what I'm doing. 

Edited by PhilipB2k17
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Lee B.

Lee B.

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47 minutes ago, SquareChaos said:

I thought it did sell for around $400? At least that is what I see when I click the HA link.

You are right!  There was another Swan/Hunt page in the same weekly auction that went for closer to $300, and I was thinking of that page.  But even at $400, I thought this page was a pretty good buy.  Best, Lee

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Weird Paper

Weird Paper

Posted
Posted
16 hours ago, lobrac said:

BWS Conan #21 page 14 sold on HA in May 2017 for $4,780

https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/barry-smith-p-craig-russell-and-dan-adkins-conan-the-barbarian-21-page-14-original-art-marvel-1972-/a/7163-93213.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

Now $5,800

http://www.comicartfans.com/gallerypiece.asp?piece=1406830

Certainly on the low side both times for a true BWS Conan page. Unfortunately the amount of BWS participation in this page can be debated.

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MyNameIsLegion

MyNameIsLegion

Posted
Posted
19 hours ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

If you are going to sell a piece of art, why would you not at least try to make a profit? 

It makes sense to me that people will list stuff at a markup to try and make their money back plus some profit. 

And the amount of markup, to me, is irrelevant because I am not going to pay that. So what do I care? It seems to me that folks who get upset about it are angry that they might have sold a piece to cheaply. 

I have only been a serious OA collector for about a year. And I have yet to sell any of my pieces. Maybe when I do, and I get burned by a flipper, I'll worry about it. Until then, buyer beware! 

Phil,  my post (and this thread) is strictly intended to highlight the recent trend of art flipping.  Sure, you want to maximize profits, and sure buyers can simply pass on prices they deem unreasonable.  This thread is an attempt to call out the emerging OA price bubble that is a direct result of art getting bid up in price at various auction venues with the express purpose of offering it up for sale or auction again almost immediately. That kind of inflation is not good for the hobby.  If you bought art 5 years ago, and sold it today, that's not a flip.  If you bought it on ebay or Comiclink five days ago and already have it re-listed somewhere else (and in all likelihood, haven't even received the art yet) at 100% mark-up or whatever, that's flipping in my book.  fF the piece was in a well publicized auction a week ago for $300, there's no reasonable explanation for it suddenly increasing in value 100% overnight. (or even 50%, whatever percentage meets your threshold for ridiculous)

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PhilipB2k17

PhilipB2k17

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, MYNAMEISLEGION said:

Phil,  my post (and this thread) is strictly intended to highlight the recent trend of art flipping.  Sure, you want to maximize profits, and sure buyers can simply pass on prices they deem unreasonable.  This thread is an attempt to call out the emerging OA price bubble that is a direct result of art getting bid up in price at various auction venues with the express purpose of offering it up for sale or auction again almost immediately. That kind of inflation is not good for the hobby.  If you bought art 5 years ago, and sold it today, that's not a flip.  If you bought it on ebay or Comiclink five days ago and already have it re-listed somewhere else (and in all likelihood, haven't even received the art yet) at 100% mark-up or whatever, that's flipping in my book.  fF the piece was in a well publicized auction a week ago for $300, there's no reasonable explanation for it suddenly increasing in value 100% overnight. (or even 50%, whatever percentage meets your threshold for ridiculous)

Well, actually, as I've discovered here, the more seasoned OA collecting vets generally stay away from eBay. 

So, it would make sense for someone to try and flip a piece they bought on c link, on eBay, because the more serious collectors are not scrounging there  

Abd the OA art bubble problem is not new. I'd argue that the flipping is a symptom of it, as much as a cause. THE biggest cause, IMHO, is a group of wealthy Collectors who bid up the high end pieces, which trickles down to everything else. 

The way to avoid being burned by a bubble is to sell everything and wait it out. Or, just buy at the budget end of the spectrum.  

 

Edited by PhilipB2k17
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Weird Paper

Weird Paper

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

Well, actually, as I've discovered here, the more seasoned OA collecting vets generally stay away from eBay. 

So, it would make sense for someone to try and flip a piece they bought on c link, on eBay, because the more serious collectors are not scrounging there  

Abd the OA art bubble problem is not new. I'd argue that the flipping is a symptom of it, as much as a cause. THE biggest cause, IMHO, is a group of wealthy Collectors who bid up the high end pieces, which trickles down to everything else. 

The way to avoid being burned by a bubble is to sell everything and wait it out. Or, just buy at the budget end of the spectrum.  

 

I wouldn't stay away from ebay entirely. Somebody in this thread (not me) recently scored some sweet pages for about 3% of their (reasonable) market value. :takeit:

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