Berk Collection Auction Wins 5 5

[G.A.tor]

1 minute ago, batman_fan said:

Goldman = Motor City ?

Yes

[batman_fan]

Just now, G.A.tor said:

Yes

my raw Batman 3, 41, and 64 came from him back in the 90s

[lou_fine]

Just now, batman_fan said:

1 minute ago, G.A.tor said:

Yes

my raw Batman 3, 41, and 64 came from him back in the 90s

And if I remembered correctly, wasn't he the dealer with the HG Showcase 4 for sale at one time? 

[G.A.tor]

3 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

And if I remembered correctly, wasn't he the dealer with the HG Showcase 4 for sale at one time? 

Yep

[lou_fine]

12 minutes ago, G.A.tor said:

1 hour ago, batman_fan said:

There are quite a few coming up for Auction between Heritage and CLINK so we may get to see.

Greg

Looks like Goldman finally selling those amfs he got last year. 

Do you have a link for the AMF's since the only ones which I could find were the 4 which CL indicates as Sale pending and CC with only the AMF V2#7 with a current bid of $6,850 for the CGC 9.2 graded Atlantic City copy?

Which ones would be Goldman's AMF's or am I looking in the wrong place? 

[Johnny545]

44 minutes ago, batman_fan said:

Goldman = Motor City ?

I don't think the HA AMF are from the OO collection Goldman bought (I could be wrong).  

I have the V2/2 from that OO collection (cgc 7.0) I don't believe there was another copy (that would seem very unlikely).  

Also, I understand the V2/2 I have was one of the best of the batch (according to someone who saw the books raw).

I could be wrong, but maybe just someone unloading their run??

[lou_fine]

52 minutes ago, buttock said:

2 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Although the Larson pedigree has a more comprehensive sampling of the Fox books relative to the Allentowns, I believe their overall condition quality is not as consistently high as the ones from the Allentown and Church pedigree collections. 

Does anybody have any idea if the Fox books, especially the early ones, are present in the highly acclaimed Tom Reilly / San Francisco Collection? 

Fantastic 5, 6, and 8 have all been sold publicly IIRC.  

That's good to know. 

Any idea if there are any Tom Reilly SF copies for the Mystery Men or Wonderworld runs? 

[Flex Mentallo]

6 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Since we often talk about market values here in relationship to guide values, what exactly do we mean by market value? 

Are we talking about the final auction prices that all of these books are finishing up at?  Especially when many of the final prices for some of these rare and truly HTF books such as the early centaurs are often really being driven up by the final 2 insane bidders (present company definitely included here   ) who are determined to win the book at almost any cost.

For example, if a book goes up to $1,500 before everybody else drops out and the the final 2 bidders take it up to $2,700.  What is the true market price here and which figure should Overstreet go with in terms of his price guide valuation?  Is it the final auction price of $2,700 which is 80% above what everybody else was willing to pay?  Or should it only be the $1,500 where the rest of the bidders beyond the crazy 2 dropped out?   

And if it should be the $1,500 price point, how is Overstreet supposed to know this?  Even if Overstreet or anybody else is watching this auction very closely, how would they know the point at which everybody else dropped out and it was then just down to the final 2 bidders.  The only way you would know is if you were one of the final 2 bidders  with the other bidder and personally increasing the bid with every other increment. 

So, if you was poor old Bob, or whoever else he has doing this job, what price point would you use in determining your price guide valuation for next year?  Definitely something higher, but exactly how much higher is appropriate?   

The price guide was built for an earlier time. I first noticed the problem around ten years ago, when Baker romance surged on Ebay. I actually managed to pick up a Cinderella Love #25 in vgf at a local mart for around $20 - ie guide - when it was selling on ebay for low four figures. The argument that Overstreet reflects an underlying trend, rather than spikes which can distort, no longer holds up in this day and age, when everything spikes, and spies again. Maybe a computerized program would be able to factor everything in, but a human being would still have to input all the data. Where Overstreet still works really well is as a comprehensive reference.

 

I guess it will remain so, at least for the next fifty years or so.

 

When GAtor passes at the age of ninety, we can put his brain in a jar and hook it up to a mike - then Overstreet will be surplus to requirements.

Edited June 22, 2017 by Flex Mentallo
They stole GAtor's brain

[Cat-Man_America]

59 minutes ago, Flex Mentallo said:

The price guide was built for an earlier time. I first noticed the problem around ten years ago, when Baker romance surged on Ebay. I actually managed to pick up a Cinderella Love #25 in vgf at a local mart for around $20 - ie guide - when it was selling on ebay for low four figures. The argument that Overstreet reflects an underlying trend, rather than spikes which can distort, no longer holds up in this day and age, when everything spikes, and spies again. Maybe a computerized program would be able to factor everything in, but a human being would still have to input all the data. Where Overstreet still works really well is as a comprehensive reference.

 

I guess it will remain so, at least for the next fifty years or so.

 

When Gator passes wind at the age of ninety, we can put his brain in a jar and hook it up to a mike - then Overstreet will be surplus to requirements.

Very true, ...and fixed! 

[G.A.tor]

3 hours ago, Flex Mentallo said:

The price guide was built for an earlier time. I first noticed the problem around ten years ago, when Baker romance surged on Ebay. I actually managed to pick up a Cinderella Love #25 in vgf at a local mart for around $20 - ie guide - when it was selling on ebay for low four figures. The argument that Overstreet reflects an underlying trend, rather than spikes which can distort, no longer holds up in this day and age, when everything spikes, and spies again. Maybe a computerized program would be able to factor everything in, but a human being would still have to input all the data. Where Overstreet still works really well is as a comprehensive reference.

 

I guess it will remain so, at least for the next fifty years or so.

 

When GAtor passes at the age of ninety, we can put his brain in a jar and hook it up to a mike - then Overstreet will be surplus to requirements.

90 sounds reasonable 

[buttock]

10 hours ago, lou_fine said:

That's good to know. 

Any idea if there are any Tom Reilly SF copies for the Mystery Men or Wonderworld runs? 

HA also has Weird 4 & Wonderworld 13

[Straw-Man]

14 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Although the Larson pedigree has a more comprehensive sampling of the Fox books relative to the Allentowns, I believe their overall condition quality is not as consistently high as the ones from the Allentown and Church pedigree collections. 

Does anybody have any idea if the Fox books, especially the early ones, are present in the highly acclaimed Tom Reilly / San Francisco Collection? 

 

13 hours ago, buttock said:

Fantastic 5, 6, and 8 have all been sold publicly IIRC.  

true.

[buttock]

7 minutes ago, Straw-Man said:

 

true.

Some of us have made smarter choices than others when it comes to the opportunities to buy one of those 

[lou_fine]

13 hours ago, buttock said:

14 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Does anybody have any idea if the Fox books, especially the early ones, are present in the highly acclaimed Tom Reilly / San Francisco Collection? 

Fantastic 5, 6, and 8 have all been sold publicly IIRC.  

1 hour ago, buttock said:

11 hours ago, lou_fine said:

That's good to know. 

Any idea if there are any Tom Reilly SF copies for the Mystery Men or Wonderworld runs? 

HA also has Weird 4 & Wonderworld 13

Dan;

You are a wealth of information here. 

Was able to find them all except for the Fantastic 8.  Looks like they range in grade from the CGC 5.5 for the Wonderworld 13 up through CGC 9.0 for the Fantastic 6, with a couple of 8.0 and 8.5 sprinkled in between for the Weird 4 and the Fantastic 5 respectively.

Very small sampling here, but it looks like they are not quite up to par with the Church and Allentown Fox books from an overall condition grade point of view.  Wonder where the rest of the Tom Reilly SF Fox books would be hiding away? 

[buttock]

1 minute ago, lou_fine said:

 

 

Dan;

You are a wealth of information here. 

Was able to find them all except for the Fantastic 8.  Looks like they range in grade from the CGC 5.5 for the Wonderworld 13 up through CGC 9.0 for the Fantastic 6, with a couple of 8.0 and 8.5 sprinkled in between for the Weird 4 and the Fantastic 5 respectively.

Very small sampling here, but it looks like they are not quite up to par with the Church and Allentown Fox books from an overall condition grade point of view.  Wonder where the rest of the Tom Reilly SF Fox books would be hiding away? 

I may be mis-recalling the Fantastic 8.  But I'm pretty sure that one has made the rounds somewhere.  

[buttock]

Here's a list West made a while back that includes the F8 and another book or two.  Not sure if the Wonder 1 is the Fox or Nedor. 

 

 

[rjpb]

17 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Well, since I am definitely a pre-internet old school type of collector, I still use the Overstreet guide as a base from which to work from, especially when it comes to HTF books such as some of the early centaurs which rarely ever comes to market, if ever.  Call me crazy, I guess. 

Ok, I don't use Overstreet strictly in terms of its absolute guide values for these types of books.  What I do is that I use it in terms of "relative multiples" of guide since I still need to have some base to work from.  By relative multiples, since the book normally doesn't show up in the marketplace, I look at the multiples to guide that the same book may have sold for in other condition grade levels, if even any other copies have sold at all.  In addition, I also look at the multiples to guide that surrounding or similar issues may have sold at based upon previous auctions at Heritage, CC, or wherever.  From here, I can then estimate a relative multiple to guide price point that I would feel comfortable with paying for a particular book.  One word of warning though, please DO NOT follow this strategy if you really do want to win a book, because as I found out in this auction here, my win rate was extremely low.   

Now if you are talking about pre-Robin 'Tec books, I am in total agreement with you guys here.  There are more than enough auction results here that you should be able to determine a fair market value for a book without relying on the guide.  Especially if you use Gator's Price per Point (PPP) strategy which is generally good for most books, except for your entry level copies and your HG copies which very rarely, if ever shows up in the marketplace anyways. 

 

One can do pretty much the same without a price guide. Forget the "multiples of guide", just extrapolate from realized prices, adjusted for grade if need be, of other copies and/or similar books. Even if recent info is difficult to find, one can compare how books of  similar value, scarcity and appeal have risen, and apply those multiples to older sales of a book. It's all inexact of course, and some books are going to defy an effort to figure out what FMV is ahead of time, particularly in an auction format, but is probably going to come closer than using OSPG for uncommon higher demand books.  

[Timely]

On 6/15/2017 at 11:55 PM, jcb193 said:

Here's my story from tonight:

I've always wanted a Church comic to own, but I didn't want it to be some random comic book that I had never heard of, and the popular ones are obviously well out of the range of us mere mortals.  Star Comics #3 was a book I remember being fascinated about as I read through an old Overstreet book on my grandfather's floor. That was the only Overstreet I had ever seen and I read it from cover to cover every summer I visited.  I'm not sure why this Star Comics stood out to me. Maybe the rarity, maybe the fact that even as a kid I knew what a different time it was in the past and how out of place those characterization felt today, but I always was enchanted by the book.  When I saw the Jon Berk collection come out, I immediately knew I would be targeting this book.  It stayed below $4000 all week long and I thought to myself "well, there's little to no GPA on this book, and the GPA is around $1000.  There's only 7 graded copies, but maybe this one will slip past. It's barely even mentioned anymore, and even on internet searches for "racial covers" or inappropriate covers of the past, it rarely comes up.  Maybe people's memories had moved on from the book and maybe I could sneak a nice sentimental win.  Even if it wasn't worth $4000, I could justify that for a book I could cherish.

Well, I set a limit in my head of $7000 (though assuming it might go to $10,000 since it was a Church with at least some notoriety).  Bidding seemed to slow down around $6000.  I started to get happy. Could I win this?  But every time I put in a winning bid, one of two others would come back and take it over.  I started to notice the patterns of the bidders and I think it was down to four or five of us. I put in a strong bid of $7600 to try and scare some of them away, and a few people tested the limit, but seemed to be reaching their max with bids of $5999 or $6999.  Was I close to winning this?  But it started to climb $1000 at a time.  Soon we were approaching $9000 and I gave myself a new limit of $9100.  Then I gave myself a limit of $10500 (maybe the other people had a cap of $10,000).  But it kept climbing $200-$300 at a time.  We were each trying to just outlast the other.  By this time I guessed it was me and two others and as we hit $11500 I decided to bow out.  I continued to watch (probably a bad idea) and watched as the clock ticked down to 25 seconds.  I thought in my head about what books I could liquidate and if I could do so in six months and decided to jump in with $12,200.  Images of selling off high grade silver age Batman books began to dance through my head as I wondered to myself: is this book really better to hold on to than Batman????  I kept reminding myself of the sentimental value, but let's be honest, nobody wants to buy a book that is overpriced.  I rationalized it by thinking "it's a Church.  It's the highest grade by far on a super rare book.  It has some historical significance," as I keyed in my final, final, final, final price, I was quite sure that it was down to me and one other guy.  I began to remember the old Golden Age adage of bidding against one other person and how you can quickly over-value a book. 

Maybe this guy is prepared to go to $25,000.  Maybe he needs it for a high grade set and will win no matter what.  Maybe he's just like me, trying to outlast the other. But then I thought to myself, only 3 of us thought this book was worth more than $8000.  I just can't afford to take this book any further. In comic collecting, the "value" is never my chief concern, but I also didn't want to bid a book into the stratosphere that only two people thought was worth that level.  My pulse quickened I finally thought to myself, well, I'm already in $12,200.  What's another $1000. I can try to sell off a Showcase 30 or something. Let's get this book.  I keyed in $13,000 and then the longest 3 minutes of my life.  Around 1:45 remaining with me still in the lead I began to worry that I was grossly overpaying, and on top of that, how many books would I have to sell.  Did I need the 6 months interest free program?  Would I still value this book a week from now?  1:01 remaining.  I continued the dreaded self-doubt.  I began to think "please outbid me, please outbid me."  I could afford the book.  I wasn't in dire straights, but a $13,000 comic book purchase isn't a walk in the park for me either.  30 seconds left.  I began to quiver in excitement mixed with fear.  "OMG I'm going to win this.  OMG, is it worth it?  Am I just paying a premium for the Jon Berk auction hype?  Will someone else want this book someday down the road?  Will I get offers two months from now for double because someone HAS TO HAVE IT, and I'll continue to rebuff their offers for eternity.  Will it ever surface again if I don't win.  Where are the other six copies?"  :20 seconds left

......YOU HAVE BEEN OUTBID.

I breathed a sigh of relied, as fate had decided the decision for me, and walked away from the computer.  I walked down to the kitchen and began to wish I had won, but began to accept reality.  Someone else wanted the book more than me. Did they want it $100 more than me, or $5000 more than me?  We'll never know.  Maybe it will turn up again someday, but I doubt it.  I gave it my best effort.  So...anyway....there's a story and picture of a book I didn't win.

 

I do know. The winner of this auction was willing to go much higher than it went for. You weren't even close.

[G.A.tor]

3 hours ago, Timely said:

I do know. The winner of this auction was willing to go much higher than it went for. You weren't even close.

You are a little late to the party

[PopKulture]

On ‎6‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 2:09 AM, Flex Mentallo said:

 I first noticed the problem around ten years ago, when Baker romance surged on Ebay. I actually managed to pick up a Cinderella Love #25 in vgf at a local mart for around $20 - ie guide - when it was selling on ebay for low four figures.

I'm astounded. That was a four figure book? Is it still? Baker is amazing, sure, but that is quite the run-up!