ArkhamComicsLasVegas really doesn't like graded comics...
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ArkhamComicsLasVegas really doesn't like graded comics...

I like watching people open their CGC boxes, I find it fun to see the books they get back. To me it's the video format of the "Just got back from CGC thread." While doing a search of CGC in YouTube I came upon ArkhamComicsLasVegas and some of his comic book collecting/CGC rant videos. Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course but as I listened to some of his videos it just seemed as though he was uninformed about how CGC operates, this of course is my opinion. I posted his latest video below. If there is already a thread out there in regard to his videos let me know and I will delete this one. I did a search prior to creating this one and didn't find any. I am sure many of you that have been getting books graded longer than me have run into people with similar feelings about graded books. His major point seems to be that grading is subjective, which it is, and that there is no consistency with CGC grades. He also doesn't like the qualified label. I found this video and his others...interesting....same with the comments associated with each. Have a great day everyone.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwE1trkx9D0&t=394s

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I'm no fan of qualified grades, very deceiving to uneducated collectors.

Watched the video and he says he would never give a book with a popped staple more than a 4.5. I wonder if he had a minty looking key book with a popped staple and a typical 4.5 same key if he would price them the same? Seriously doubt it

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2 hours ago, comicquant said:

The argument of disliking slabs because grading is subjective is completely ridiculous.  They say this as if grading a raw book isn't subjective.  At the end of the day the purpose of a grade is to quantify the value of a book and nothing else; raw or slabbed.  And I would state the complete opposite...  Graded raws are substantially more affected by subjectivity than slabbed books.  Hop on eBay and see just how subjective self-assigned grades can be.  I would prefer third-party industry experts any day of the week.  

Exactly.  In theory, the 3rd party grader has no self interest in how a book that passes before them grades out.   They're not looking at making substantially more money or less money depending on the grade or whether a book is discovered to have restoration done (the latter of which I've always thought has been the best service always provided by CGC since its inception).  The above mentioned dealer's comments about there being no consistency with CGC's grading shows a lack of knowledge with simply mathematics and a simultaneous lack of common sense.  CGC has graded tens of thousands upon thousands of books.  Looking overall, we can all find examples of a quality control error, or books that look like somewhere, someone missed the mark and a book was undergraded/overgraded.  But that's simply standard deviation and an acceptable margin of error at work considering the sheer volume of books CGC has graded over its lifetime as a company.

Now if there were continuous routine examples of books that were 9.0 coming back as 6.0's, and vice-versa -- or if a certain West Coast based grading company with shady past practices were being discussed -- that would be a different story.  My own personal interactions in the past with people about CGC around my own LCS tended to be that people weren't aware of what the benefits of grading were -- when explained, the majority tended to see the benefits far outweighed any potential downsides (other than the inherent cost involved with purchasing graded books over raw, or getting one's own books graded, but that's simply a cost of the service being provided and not intrinsically a negative).

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I think CGC is great for high dollar, key or rare books, that go to auction or for sale via the internet.  

It also adds a level of comfort to signed books, if people are into that. 

I think CGC is a waste of time for everything else.   

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If grading is completely subjective and worthless why doesn't he pay the same amount for books no matter the condition.  I mean it's all subjective right so a torn cover, writing, water damage, rusty staples-all the same as a book right off the rack, right???

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9 hours ago, Quicksilver Signs said:

I'm no fan of qualified grades, very deceiving to uneducated collectors.

Watched the video and he says he would never give a book with a popped staple more than a 4.5. I wonder if he had a minty looking key book with a popped staple and a typical 4.5 same key if he would price them the same? Seriously doubt it

Not aimed at you, but... Get educated. Buyer beware.

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8 hours ago, ChiSoxFan said:

Exactly.  In theory, the 3rd party grader has no self interest in how a book that passes before them grades out.   They're not looking at making substantially more money or less money depending on the grade or whether a book is discovered to have restoration done (the latter of which I've always thought has been the best service always provided by CGC since its inception).  The above mentioned dealer's comments about there being no consistency with CGC's grading shows a lack of knowledge with simply mathematics and a simultaneous lack of common sense.  CGC has graded tens of thousands upon thousands of books.  Looking overall, we can all find examples of a quality control error, or books that look like somewhere, someone missed the mark and a book was undergraded/overgraded.  But that's simply standard deviation and an acceptable margin of error at work considering the sheer volume of books CGC has graded over its lifetime as a company.

Now if there were continuous routine examples of books that were 9.0 coming back as 6.0's, and vice-versa -- or if a certain West Coast based grading company with shady past practices were being discussed -- that would be a different story.  My own personal interactions in the past with people about CGC around my own LCS tended to be that people weren't aware of what the benefits of grading were -- when explained, the majority tended to see the benefits far outweighed any potential downsides (other than the inherent cost involved with purchasing graded books over raw, or getting one's own books graded, but that's simply a cost of the service being provided and not intrinsically a negative).

Those aren't entirely accurate.  CGC charges based on how much the book is worth (which personally I find a bit sketch), so they have the opportunity to make more money based on the value of a book.  Individually it miught not be significant, but aggregated it could be.  I agree that it is not a driving factor for the business model.  CGC also offers a press/clean service, and it therefore has self interest to: a) grade harshly on press/cleanable flaws, like say finger bends and maybe stains, and; b) bump grades for books that have gone through their press/clean to validate its efficacy.

None of that has bearing on the subjectivity of a grader looking at a book, but it can affect the legitimacy of CGC as a grading service.

I'm not sure we'd have grading services if not for online commerce.  People want to know what they're buying and pictures don't tell 1,000 words about quality.  OTOH, people naturally like quantifying things, so maybe it was inevtable.

I think I agree with the youtuber on qualified grades.  That seems an unnecessary complication.  I think defects should (and I'm sure do, only they're secret) have point deductions capping the grade a book can receive.  If an industry standard were set, then anyone could grade a book (-.1pts per spine tic, -2.2pts for a crease, etc.).  CGC would be reduced to a press/clean/encapsulation service.

 

Edited by SteppinRazor

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New one is out, with CGC predictions. LOL. I love watching these...

 

 

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I don't want to get off topic, but this might be loosely related to the discussion, so I thought I would share.  One of the stores in my town had a book I was interested in.  I asked the manager of the store if he would be interested in a trade.  He said yes, if it was the right sort of stuff.  I went home, gathered up 3 or 4 CGC graded books, and a few raw books.  The graded books were lower grade keys, one of which was Cap 117 CGC 5.0.  One of the raw books was a higher grade X-Men 266, just as a few examples.  Anyhow, I went back to the store, handed the stack of books to the manager.  The raw books were on top of the stack.  He took the raw books off the top and immediately handed back the stack of graded books to me.  I'm pretty certain he didn't even look to see what the CGC books were.  I must've had a puzzled look on my face because he said to me that he doesn't deal in CGC books.  He briefly explained why he doesn't, which I can't  really recall for the most part other than that way back in the early days of CGC he sent some books in and there was some sort of disagreement.  It struck me so odd that he wouldn't even look to see what the CGC books were, but on the other hand, if his policy is to not deal in CGC material, then I suppose it doesn't matter what books they were.  I did ask him why doesn't he just crack the books out and sell them raw?  His response was pretty much the same as before, that he doesn't want to purchase CGC books or sell CGC books.  It's his store and he can most definitely do what he wants and I have no problem with that.  It still seems a little odd to me.  I wonder what other CGC books have came in that he has turned away.  Has something like this every happened to anyone else?  Now back to our regularly scheduled program!

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Good Lord, who has time to listen to this drivel?  I only got 3 1/2 minutes in.  I have too many other things to do.

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I skipped to the rant at the end, I always do. I won't post anymore links of his videos.

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37 minutes ago, fullerjason said:

I skipped to the rant at the end, I always do. I won't post anymore links of his videos.

Don't do it on my account.  I can easily 'not watch'.  :whee:

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I wasn't @lizards2 but I did agree with your statement. Three videos is more than enough to get the the guys feelings on graded comics. I usually run into folks that have their pro and con feelings on graded books I just have never heard the conspiracy theory approach that this gentleman has was all. Thought it might lead to bit of discussion and it did. Have a great day everyone!

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4 hours ago, Timmay said:

Guy is a fruit loop.

You ain't lyin' 

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I can tell just from his personality in his videos that he is closed minded, and will just shove his opinions down your throat.  I watched one video where he said he could grade as good, or better than cgc, and that people could just come to him to grade their books.  I'd like to test that theory.  Someone go to his store in Vegas with an entire long box of comics and see if he'll grade them for you for free?  If cgc isn't a service that he doesn't agree that you should pay for, then he'll grade all your books for free, right?  Give me a break.  Hate CGC or not, there is no reason not to believe that having a 3rd party company grade and slab your books is not a good investment or a good practice to sell your books online.  I would hate to sell someone a very expensive book and I missed a restoration touch up or something else inside the book, but that's just me.

 

 

Edited by Sludgesicle Man

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it's not a store. from the videos that he shows, its a booth at an antique mall. completely different. so different he has dogs***** books up on his wall.  he's been discussed before. I called him ignorant about cgc practices, he thought I called him stupid. His name was different back then. something like livingdeadcomics or something. nice to see his views haven't changed. a local at the shop brought him up and thought he was interesting. that local is very stupid.

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