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Avengers#4 vs. X-Men #4
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Started by H0RR0RSH0W,

60 posts in this topic

Lazyboy

Lazyboy

Posted
Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, namisgr said:

I'd always vote for the hero over the villain.  Even when the latter is as great a character as Magneto.  Avengers #4 is a major Silver Age key.

Because Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch haven't been heroes for most of their existence, including as members of that team that Cap joined when he returned in their title? The issue also features the first Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, including the first Mastermind (yeah, yeah zzz) and second Magneto.

5 hours ago, Mercury Man said:

Remember that amazing Quicksilver title that ran for over 400 issues......yeah me neither. 

Remember Scarlet Witch in the Golden Age fighting Hitler......yeah me neither.

Remember when Magneto....yeah me neither.

Remember when Avengers 4 wasn't Cap's (who has never had his own series run for over 400 issues and never will considering how Marvel works now) first appearance? Not that his re-intro/148th appearance isn't significant, but come on.

Edited by Lazyboy
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Mercury Man

Mercury Man

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

Remember when Avengers 4 wasn't Cap's (who has never had his own series run for over 400 issues and never will considering how Marvel works now) first appearance? Not that his re-intro/148th appearance isn't significant, but come on.

Seriously going to nit pick this one?!  Ok 355 issues for Volume 1.  My bad.  You are right, Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch are a much bigger draw.  :insane:

 

 

600.jpg

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entalmighty1

entalmighty1

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

Because Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch haven't been heroes for most of their existence, including as members of that team that Cap joined when he returned in their title? The issue also features the first Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, including the first Mastermind (yeah, yeah zzz) and second Magneto.

Remember when Avengers 4 wasn't Cap's (who has never had his own series run for over 400 issues and never will considering how Marvel works now) first appearance? Not that his re-intro/148th appearance isn't significant, but come on.

I can see your points here, but I still don't think that pushes X-4 over A-4, importance wise.  To each their own.  (shrug)

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Chillax23

Chillax23

Posted
Posted (edited)

I am a huge X-Men fan - but I think the answer is pretty clearly Avengers #4.  A closer debate in my opinion is Avengers #1 vs Avengers #4 (which I would lean Avengers #1).

That being said X-Men #1 is much more important than Avengers #1 or Avengers #4  :)

 

 

Edited by Chillax23
typo
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Mercury Man

Mercury Man

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, entalmighty1 said:

I can see your points here, but I still don't think that pushes X-4 over A-4, importance wise.  To each their own.  (shrug)

It's not even close.  Serious Kool-Aid drinking going on.   Captain America is an iconic character, shelved for many years, then Lee/Kirby had the foresight to reintroduce him into the Silver Age.   All he has done is remain one of the biggest players in the MARVEL U, both in print and at the box office.   Go to Target/Wal-Mart etc and you can buy dozens of items with Captain America on it.    How many Quicksilver or Scarlet Witch items you picking out.....ZERO.  

You are going to diminish A-4 because it's not his 'first' appearance?!     Evidently somebody owns a copy of X-4 but not A-4, that is the only explanation I can see.

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Jaydogrules

Jaydogrules

Posted
Posted
20 hours ago, shadroch said:

I've never even given this a thought. After pondering it over for about thirty seconds I realize why I never bothered.

First Captain America vs first Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch? Why does Bambi vs Godzilla come to mind?

+1

This.

*(Full disclosure, I own both in a 6.0, not that I thought people had to actually own a book in order to talk about it or have an opinion on it.)

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Lazyboy

Lazyboy

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Mercury Man said:

It's not even close.  Serious Kool-Aid drinking going on.   Captain America is an iconic character, shelved for many years, then Lee/Kirby had the foresight to reintroduce him into the Silver Age.   All he has done is remain one of the biggest players in the MARVEL U, both in print and at the box office.   Go to Target/Wal-Mart etc and you can buy dozens of items with Captain America on it.    How many Quicksilver or Scarlet Witch items you picking out.....ZERO.  

That's great, but we aren't talking about Captain America Comics 1 here.

2 hours ago, Mercury Man said:

You are going to diminish A-4 because it's not his 'first' appearance?! 

When comparing it to an issue with multiple first appearances? Absolutely!

Again, a reintroduction of a popular character certainly has significance, but Cap was a well-established character with dozens of prior appearances.

2 hours ago, Mercury Man said:

   Evidently somebody owns a copy of X-4 but not A-4, that is the only explanation I can see.

:eyeroll: I do not own any copies of X-Men 4 (well, not the SA version). And despite any significance early X-Men issues may have, they are basically unreadable.

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Mercury Man

Mercury Man

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Lazyboy said:

That's great, but we aren't talking about Captain America Comics 1 here.

When comparing it to an issue with multiple first appearances? Absolutely!

Again, a reintroduction of a popular character certainly has significance, but Cap was a well-established character with dozens of prior appearances.

:eyeroll: I do not own any copies of X-Men 4 (well, not the SA version). And despite any significance early X-Men issues may have, they are basically unreadable.

I respect your opinion, but I disagree.  I would take Avengers 4 over X-Men 4 any day of the week.   Cap simply holds more water over the last 50 years than Quicksilver/Scarlet Witch.  Avengers 4 brought him back to relevance. 

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Guardian Comics

Guardian Comics

Posted
Posted
17 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

That's great, but we aren't talking about Captain America Comics 1 here.

When comparing it to an issue with multiple first appearances? Absolutely!

Again, a reintroduction of a popular character certainly has significance, but Cap was a well-established character with dozens of prior appearances.

:eyeroll: I do not own any copies of X-Men 4 (well, not the SA version). And despite any significance early X-Men issues may have, they are basically unreadable.

First SA appearances are fairly important, and have been for a very long time, because they are a representation of the character we know and love, not our Grandfathers GL, Flash or Cap.  Avengers #4 is a pretty big deal.

 

That being said Avengers #4 and X-Men #4 are two of my favourie 25 books of all time, but Avengers #4 is the winner here.

 

Jim

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Chillax23

Chillax23

Posted
Posted
12 hours ago, thehumantorch said:

Hell yes, first SA Cap versus first 'guy who can pick up metal', no contest.

For the record X-Men #4 is the 2nd Magneto - if it was the 1st Magneto then it would be more important than Avengers #4 IMO. 

Again, despite X-Men #4 being a great book it does not compare to Avengers #4.  Avengers #1 versus #4 is a more appropriate debate! (with Avengers #1 winning IMO)

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thehumantorch

thehumantorch

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Chillax23 said:

For the record X-Men #4 is the 2nd Magneto - if it was the 1st Magneto then it would be more important than Avengers #4 IMO. 

Again, despite X-Men #4 being a great book it does not compare to Avengers #4.  Avengers #1 versus #4 is a more appropriate debate! (with Avengers #1 winning IMO)

Whoops, brain slip.

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Unca Ben

Unca Ben

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Posted (edited)

I'd give the edge to Avengers #4 over X-Men #4, but I will say X-Men 4 has the better story (who reads these things, anyway?).  Avengers 4 was cool with the finding of Cap, but the second and third act of the story with the Avengers being turned to stone by the alien was a little silly compared to the better story in X-Men 4, with the introduction of the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants and the reluctant Quicksilver & Scarlet Witch joining Magneto's ranks (with Quicksilver saving the X-Men at the end of the story - despite being aligned with Magneto).  X-Men 4 is just more representative of Silver age Marvel's nuanced characterization - which is what made Marvel Marvel.

As an aside, I'd say it was FF #4 that first pulled Golden age history into Silver age continuity for Marvel, not Avengers #4.

And this gives me another opportunity to reiterate Jack & Stan's cleverness in the way they pulled Timely's "big three" into the Silver age :smile: - an updated version of the Golden age Human Torch (in Johnny Storm) finds Namor in a flophouse and restores his memory, then this reinvigorated Sub-Mariner finds Steve Rogers in a block of ice and throws him in the sea where he thaws out.
The Torch begat the Sub-Mariner begat Captain America.  Orchestrated or not, it ended up being clever.

Edited by Unca Ben
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