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Can you over hydrate a book before pressing?
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Can you over hydrate a book before pressing?

If you put a book in a high humidity situation for 8 hours is that going to damage the book?  Not submerged in water over hydration but in a high humidity situation.  I'm guessing the humidity would lead to mold if you leave it in for a few days but half a day shouldn't lead to damage, right?

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1 hour ago, joeypost said:

Im sure that many,many books are being ruined as we speak. 

Unfortunately true, everyone thinks a little is good, so a lot is great. It takes a lot less than most who are learning think. To address OP, too much humidity can cause waviness, defect reversion, rusted staples, shrinking, ripples, and bad smell.

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20 hours ago, MastrCntrlProgram said:

Unfortunately true, everyone thinks a little is good, so a lot is great. It takes a lot less than most who are learning think. To address OP, too much humidity can cause waviness, defect reversion, rusted staples, shrinking, ripples, and bad smell.

Just gotta love a book that smells like arse before you get it out of the mylar.

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Thanks for the input guys.  The four hour info I was receiving didn't seem unreasonable but 8 hours didn't seem to make sense from a paper product standpoint.  If you work and want to press books while you are at work (7:30 - 5:30PM) then you would have to get up at 4:00 AM to put the books in hydration so it's ready at 7:30 AM.  Evenings are no problem since you could put books in hydration at 5:30 and throw them in the press before bed at 9:30 PM.  Was considering putting in hydration at 10:30 PM and pressing at 7:00 AM but that is 8.5 hours of high humidity - way too long.  I'll figure it out but just wanted some info to back up not wanting books "soaking" for so long.

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12 minutes ago, 1Cool said:

Thanks for the input guys.  The four hour info I was receiving didn't seem unreasonable but 8 hours didn't seem to make sense from a paper product standpoint.  If you work and want to press books while you are at work (7:30 - 5:30PM) then you would have to get up at 4:00 AM to put the books in hydration so it's ready at 7:30 AM.  Evenings are no problem since you could put books in hydration at 5:30 and throw them in the press before bed at 9:30 PM.  Was considering putting in hydration at 10:30 PM and pressing at 7:00 AM but that is 8.5 hours of high humidity - way too long.  I'll figure it out but just wanted some info to back up not wanting books "soaking" for so long.

Kudos to you for asking the right questions . However, it scares me that there are probably many others out there who do not ask and just go ahead and do it. I can only imagine some of the 'experiments' out there in the marketplace.

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On 6/16/2017 at 4:14 PM, joeypost said:

Im sure that many,many books are being ruined as we speak. 

 

On 6/16/2017 at 1:15 AM, Tony S said:

Over hydrating a book - like your question of 4-8 hours  - will not cause mold growth. However, 4-8  hours is a ridiculously long time. Over hydrating a book will cause other issues, most often waviness with the book once pressed and done. Water spots and stains become a risk too. 

People experimenting with pressing ought to - IMHO - spend a lot more time thinking about HOW professionals are likely pressing books and do some basic research on paper conservation.  Do you think that CCS spends 4 to 8 hours hydrating a book before pressing? At the $12 fee they charge for moderns. $24 for value, that would have them making $1-$4 an hour. They would need hundreds of humidity chambers. Dozens of employees to keep track of them all.   Obviously - with a bit of thought - this is not how it's done. 

Comic books should not be be humidified for half a day or longer before pressing. But it is also a big mistake when people wave clothes steamers at them for 30 seconds. That represents way too aggressive humidification. Which will also cause waviness and risks spots and stains.  

There are no how to videos on pressing comic books that are worth a sh....  The FB forums and the people there discussing pressing are offering 90% bad advice. Because they all went simple answers and how to instructions instead of research and basic knowledge. But the Library of Congress, the Northeast Document Conservation Center and your local library all have information on the conservation and treatment of paper, including flattening out documents with humidification. 

Compared to the days of the "phantom Presser" being the only video on YouTube, internet pressing instruction is light years ahead. You just have to somehow separate the good from bad, which would mean trial & error and practice, practice, practice. And yes, many a book will be ruined but no one really cares enough about that fact to offer proper advice. 

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16 hours ago, Quicksilver Signs said:

 

Compared to the days of the "phantom Presser" being the only video on YouTube, internet pressing instruction is light years ahead. You just have to somehow separate the good from bad, which would mean trial & error and practice, practice, practice. And yes, many a book will be ruined but no one really cares enough about that fact to offer proper advice. 

The idea that virtually all information and anything that can be done over the internet should be free is a relatively new one. And one that not everyone agrees with.   The music and movie industry are resisting the idea that their products should be free.  College is not free. K-12 education actually isn't free - it's paid for by taxes, collected from taxpayers. 

The problem is that most would be pressers want a Pressing for Dummies handbook - and they don't want to pay for it.  And I'm not sure that even if such existed that it would make for good pressers. Would you like your surgeon to have learned from a handbook? Oops! That's not in the book. Now what do I do? Or your plumber? 

The way to start and the way to learn is by studying paper conservation, library science and book binding.  Those techniques - when learned - will give someone a basic set of knowledge and skills to apply to comic books. But that's not how people want it. They want a dumb downed YouTube video that says "first you do this...then you do that.. then you do this..  Which leads to a lot of wrong information. At best incomplete information. 

I already mentioned the Library of Congress. The Northeast Document Conservation Center.  Your local library and scholarly books on the care and repair of paper.  If you really want a short cut and you are actually willing to pay what it's worth, I'm aware of one person offering such. The cost is $1500. You spend a day with them pressing a variety of books. And you can - he says - call with questions afterwards. And questions people would have. 

http://www.comicpressing.com/learn-to-press.php

And your right. IDC if people ruin books learning to press.   People should practice on books in the dollar bin until they know what they are doing.  Which they will never learn on Youtube and Facebook forums.  Go to the library, go to the Library of Congress. Then as you say, practice, practice, practice. On cheap stuff preferably - but that's on them

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4 minutes ago, Tony S said:

The idea that virtually all information and anything that can be done over the internet should be free is a relatively new one. And one that not everyone agrees with.   The music and movie industry are resisting the idea that their products should be free.  College is not free. K-12 education actually isn't free - it's paid for by taxes, collected from taxpayers. 

The problem is that most would be pressers want a Pressing for Dummies handbook - and they don't want to pay for it.  And I'm not sure that even if such existed that it would make for good pressers. Would you like your surgeon to have learned from a handbook? Oops! That's not in the book. Now what do I do? Or your plumber? 

The way to start and the way to learn is by studying paper conservation, library science and book binding.  Those techniques - when learned - will give someone a basic set of knowledge and skills to apply to comic books. But that's not how people want it. They want a dumb downed YouTube video that says "first you do this...then you do that.. then you do this..  Which leads to a lot of wrong information. At best incomplete information. 

I already mentioned the Library of Congress. The Northeast Document Conservation Center.  Your local library and scholarly books on the care and repair of paper.  If you really want a short cut and you are actually willing to pay what it's worth, I'm aware of one person offering such. The cost is $1500. You spend a day with them pressing a variety of books. And you can - he says - call with questions afterwards. And questions people would have. 

http://www.comicpressing.com/learn-to-press.php

And your right. IDC if people ruin books learning to press.   People should practice on books in the dollar bin until they know what they are doing.  Which they will never learn on Youtube and Facebook forums.  Go to the library, go to the Library of Congress. Then as you say, practice, practice, practice. On cheap stuff preferably - but that's on them

You're talking 5 course meal in a fast-food world.  But on the other side of the fence, pressers in the know are the first to scold those trying to learn...  Even within a forum with the explicit purpose of providing information.  If you're honest with yourself its not that people aren't taking the time to research conservation that rubs you the wrong way, its that you don't want to openly discuss the how-to's of a skillset that took decades of experience to acquire.  And I don't blame you!  Which is why if you were to write that book on pressing, I can guarantee people would be willing to pay $1500 or more...  Including myself.

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2 hours ago, Tony S said:

The idea that virtually all information and anything that can be done over the internet should be free is a relatively new one. And one that not everyone agrees with.   The music and movie industry are resisting the idea that their products should be free.  College is not free. K-12 education actually isn't free - it's paid for by taxes, collected from taxpayers. 

The problem is that most would be pressers want a Pressing for Dummies handbook - and they don't want to pay for it.  And I'm not sure that even if such existed that it would make for good pressers. Would you like your surgeon to have learned from a handbook? Oops! That's not in the book. Now what do I do? Or your plumber? 

The way to start and the way to learn is by studying paper conservation, library science and book binding.  Those techniques - when learned - will give someone a basic set of knowledge and skills to apply to comic books. But that's not how people want it. They want a dumb downed YouTube video that says "first you do this...then you do that.. then you do this..  Which leads to a lot of wrong information. At best incomplete information. 

I already mentioned the Library of Congress. The Northeast Document Conservation Center.  Your local library and scholarly books on the care and repair of paper.  If you really want a short cut and you are actually willing to pay what it's worth, I'm aware of one person offering such. The cost is $1500. You spend a day with them pressing a variety of books. And you can - he says - call with questions afterwards. And questions people would have. 

http://www.comicpressing.com/learn-to-press.php

And your right. IDC if people ruin books learning to press.   People should practice on books in the dollar bin until they know what they are doing.  Which they will never learn on Youtube and Facebook forums.  Go to the library, go to the Library of Congress. Then as you say, practice, practice, practice. On cheap stuff preferably - but that's on them

I can't tell you how many times people find out I know how to weld, design a structure, woodwork, and/or work on cars and then expect me to educate them for free because I know what they want to know.  Or do it for them for free.  Even people in the same business as me expect me to share technique or resources.  I bled for my knowledge, you want some, bleed a little.

Edited by SteppinRazor
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2 hours ago, SteppinRazor said:

I can't tell you how many times people find out I know how to weld, design a structure, woodwork, and/or work on cars and then expect me to educate them for free because I know what they want to know.  Or do it for them for free.  Even people in the same business as me expect me to share technique or resources.  I bled for my knowledge, you want some, bleed a little.

Completely different concept. If I want to learn to weld, fix my car, there are numerous places I can be taught that skill or even individuals willing to share knowledge. Pressing is a well guarded profession, where the thought of sharing your techniques potentially means losing customers. 

 

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1 hour ago, Quicksilver Signs said:

Completely different concept. If I want to learn to weld, fix my car, there are numerous places I can be taught that skill or even individuals willing to share knowledge. Pressing is a well guarded profession, where the thought of sharing your techniques potentially means losing customers. 

 

Yessss. True. Mostly. Or sorta..

You can learn to strike an arc and stick a couple of pieces of 1/4" steel together from how to videos and advice from people selling welding equipment. If you want to make a living as a professional, skilled welder, it's a lot more time consuming. The Union apprenticeships are at least a couple of years.  Local trade college programs are one year long. Ivy Tech here in Indiana is a one year, 21 semester hour program that would cost about $3000

Fix your car? That would depend on what kind of car you drive and what is wrong with it. Sure - learning to change the oil or brakes and tires isn't hard to learn (though personally, I'd rather pay someone else) Intermittent engine shut downs? Constant blowing of fuses? Emission control systems problems? On cars manufactured the last 20 years? You need a REAL mechanic - someone the shop or dealership has invested thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours of training in. 

So I guess it depends on what sort of pressing skill set one wants to acquire  The low hanging fruit I got a tiny bit of improvement despite doing it mostly wrong type? Or the person that has spent years and researched the basics of paper, treatments and conservation.  Or who pays Stephen his $1500 fee for a crash course and free consults for life. 

I have no concerns at all about competition. Not because everything is a secret. It's not a secret - people don't just don't want to pay the price.  In time and money. I have no concern because pressing comic books isn't like opening a grocery store.  People only buy so many groceries. A new grocery store is in direct competition with the existing grocery stores. The demand for pressing comic books is in it's infancy and rapidly expanding.  Most collectors have never heard of it.  For that matter, most collectors have never sent in or bought a CGC graded comic book. Every new pressing service that does a good job attracts more NEW customers. Not stealing away existing customers.  I think we have seen that with Voldemort entering the graded comic market. It doesn't appear they took a nickel's worth of business from CGC.  Instead they grew the market for professional grading and encapsulation. 

Edited by Tony S
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1 hour ago, Quicksilver Signs said:

Completely different concept. If I want to learn to weld, fix my car, there are numerous places I can be taught that skill or even individuals willing to share knowledge. Pressing is a well guarded profession, where the thought of sharing your techniques potentially means losing customers. 

 

The fact that there are more avenues to learn it doesn't mean it doesn't mean losing potential customers.  I share knowledge because that's who I am, which includes teaching my competitors how to do their jobs better.  I do it because I like to help others even if they don't care and are taking advantage of me.  It's important to me what I put out into the world.  Also because it's important to me that people get a quality product even if it doesn't come from me.  I know what it's like to spend money and not be happy with the result, and just because someone didn't know they were hiring an ignorant fabricator shouldn't hurt them. But man, it is tough that any schmoe thinks they can do something and is entitled to my knowledge to help them make money.  I wasn't speaking metaphorically about bleeding for my knowledge.  I've got all my digits and thankfully haven't gotten too injured in my line of work, but I've paid for what I know.

If one wants to learn how to press, those who already know don't owe that knowledge to anyone.  If one desires to learn, learn it the hard way, same as other pressers.

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12 minutes ago, Tony S said:


I have no concerns at all about competition. Not because everything is a secret. It's not a secret - people don't just don't want to pay the price.  In time and money.

This is what I'm saying.  I didn't invent welding, and there are some flabbergastingly good welders out there, far better than me.  Or woodworkers.  And plenty of buyers.  But there are plenty of ignorant people getting into the custom furniture/fab business who don't know jack and want me to set them on 3rd base instead of learning how to swing a bat.  Earn 3rd base, like I did.  or Tony S did with pressing.

Edited by SteppinRazor
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