The Future of Comic Books 1 1

[joe_collector]

On 6/21/2017 at 8:17 PM, FineCollector said:

The internet made baseball cards obsolete.  Not hard to find pictures and stats from your favorite players anymore...

What? What? What?

Baseball cards dropped because people started figuring out how many millions and millions of these things were out there in pristine shape, as opposed to being blissfully unaware. seriously, no one paid $$$ for a Barry Bonds or Ken Griffey Jr rookie card just to see their first-year stats - a cheap card from later one would have that and future year's stats.

[joe_collector]

On 6/21/2017 at 8:32 PM, FineCollector said:

No, not the same at all.  A comic is meant to be read.  What is a baseball card for?

You do realize you're on the CGC forums, right?

[joe_collector]

Comics and comic book media-related shows are currently going in the same direction as baseball cards did.

My kids are in high school now, and the comic book hype has gotten so big that we recently had a big ComicCon here in Ottawa, with some relatively big names appearing, including William Shatner. So a lot of their friends were all hyped up to go,  including one guy who blew his entire birthday $$$ on bringing a pile of friends there. Of course, there was little information on in-show costs  (the website said it would be "coming soon" but never showed up) and there were huge Facebook threads about "how much are autographs/photos" and "how much are the discussions?", etc. but again, the organizers kept their mouths shut. (After the Saturday show, some nice folks posted itemized lists of the inflated costs, and there was a healthy slam session after that.)

So these hyped-up teens flow into the ComicCon floor (at $55-$150 a ticket) only to find some seriously high-priced autos, like in the range of hundreds of dollars (and some no-shows) - a huge tomato surprise given that the Con website had absolutely no info and facebook inquiries went unanswered. One girl who paid for her entire family said "there was nothing to do but walk around" as everything was vastly overpriced and scams and ripoffs were everywhere. One jerk was selling "Mystery Boxes" with action figures and toys, and one guy showed his and it was 2 USED and broken action figures that wouldn't sell for 10-cents BNIB. The current joke that day was "Now I know why they call it a Con", which was pretty amusing to me.

As my kid told me on Monday, they were still extremely angry and bitter about being scammed. It was the biggest letdown that many had experienced in their short lives and the poor guy who blew his birthday stash was still irate. They had pocket money with them, like $50-$75 for spending,  but that doesn't do squat when the autograph you want is $200 and pictures are $100. None of them intend to attend another ComicCon. These pseudo-celebrities realize that this gravy train won't run forever, and are trying to bleed the nerds dry as fast as they can, but this whole cycle of greed is just going to kill off the phenomenon even faster. 

Greed kills hobbies, and I remember the exact same thing happening with card shows. I used to take my dad to shows during the mid-late-80's, and it started with free admittance and stars like Bobby Orr, Gordie Howe and Bobby Hull signing autographs for FREE (yes Virginia, it did happen), to the 90's, walking into a $30 show and seeing minor leaguers and never-been's selling their scrawl for $100 or more. I walked out, and never came back, just like these kids at the ComicCon.

[joe_collector]

Even now, long after the ComicCON is over, this answer is still on the site:

 

How Much Does it Cost to Get an Autograph:

Each guest sets his/her own price for autographs and photo ops. We don't currently have access to those prices, but we are trying to get them before the show so people can prepare accordingly. In that regard, you can get as many signatures as you are willing to pay for (possibly limited by how large the remaining line is behind you, of course).

[october]

7 minutes ago, joe_collector said:

Comics and comic book media-related shows are currently going in the same direction as baseball cards did.

My kids are in high school now, and the comic book hype has gotten so big that we recently had a big ComicCon here in Ottawa, with some relatively big names appearing, including William Shatner. So a lot of their friends were all hyped up to go,  including one guy who blew his entire birthday $$$ on bringing a pile of friends there. Of course, there was little information on in-show costs  (the website said it would be "coming soon" but never showed up) and there were huge Facebook threads about "how much are autographs/photos" and "how much are the discussions?", etc. but again, the organizers kept their mouths shut. (After the Saturday show, some nice folks posted itemized lists of the inflated costs, and there was a healthy slam session after that.)

So these hyped-up teens flow into the ComicCon floor (at $55-$150 a ticket) only to find some seriously high-priced autos, like in the range of hundreds of dollars (and some no-shows) - a huge tomato surprise given that the Con website had absolutely no info and facebook inquiries went unanswered. One girl who paid for her entire family said "there was nothing to do but walk around" as everything was vastly overpriced and scams and ripoffs were everywhere. One jerk was selling "Mystery Boxes" with action figures and toys, and one guy showed his and it was 2 USED and broken action figures that wouldn't sell for 10-cents BNIB. The current joke that day was "Now I know why they call it a Con", which was pretty amusing to me.

As my kid told me on Monday, they were still extremely angry and bitter about being scammed. It was the biggest letdown that many had experienced in their short lives and the poor guy who blew his birthday stash was still irate. They had pocket money with them, like $50-$75 for spending,  but that doesn't do squat when the autograph you want is $200 and pictures are $100. None of them intend to attend another ComicCon. These pseudo-celebrities realize that this gravy train won't run forever, and are trying to bleed the nerds dry as fast as they can, but this whole cycle of greed is just going to kill off the phenomenon even faster. 

Greed kills hobbies, and I remember the exact same thing happening with card shows. I used to take my dad to shows during the mid-late-80's, and it started with free admittance and stars like Bobby Orr, Gordie Howe and Bobby Hull signing autographs for FREE (yes Virginia, it did happen), to the 90's, walking into a $30 show and seeing minor leaguers and never-been's selling their scrawl for $100 or more. I walked out, and never came back, just like these kids at the ComicCon.

That's really disheartening. I don't go to major cons for autographs (and I almost always am able to get a free dealer pass from someone), but I did look online at going to the Heroes and Villains Fan Fest that's coming up in Nashville. Tickets are $45 for a one-day Saturday badge. That's ludicrous, and I won't be going. I come to shows with a nice sized bankroll, which is now not in the room because of the ticket price. I can only assume that autos follow the same crazy pricing. That's hundreds of dollars for a kid to get a couple signed pictures of B or C rate celebrities. I can see why your kid was angry. I don't blame him and it's sad for the future of this hobby. Killing the golden goose, just like baseball card companies, promoters and athletes did back in the day. 

[1Cool]

Those kids could have saved their cash and gone to a small local comic con that has boxes and boxes of comic books.  Those shows are usually $5 to get in and . . have no kids in sight. 

There is some light and not all doom and gloom.  Stopped by a comic shop yesterday and watched a mom buy her 5 year old (or close to it) daughter a wonder woman TPB.  Little girl picked it out herself and was jumping up and down waiting for the guy to ring in out so she could get it back.  I highly doubt that little girl will end up growing up to be a big Wonder Woman comic collector but at least comics are getting into some kids hands due to movie successes. 

[october]

3 minutes ago, 1Cool said:

Those kids could have saved their cash and gone to a small local comic con that has boxes and boxes of comic books.  Those shows are usually $5 to get in and . . have no kids in sight. 

There is some light and not all doom and gloom.  Stopped by a comic shop yesterday and watched a mom buy her 5 year old (or close to it) daughter a wonder woman TPB.  Little girl picked it out herself and was jumping up and down waiting for the guy to ring in out so she could get it back.  I highly doubt that little girl will end up growing up to be a big Wonder Woman comic collector but at least comics are getting into some kids hands due to movie successes. 

I think a lot of kids want to see or get autos from the people playing the characters on TV/movies, with buying actual comics as an afterthought. 

[Quicksilver Signs]

Be curious to see the percentage of kids who read comics by decade, considering practically EVERY kid read comics in the 50's

[jcjames]

1 hour ago, joe_collector said:

Comics and comic book media-related shows are currently going in the same direction as baseball cards did.

My kids are in high school now, and the comic book hype has gotten so big that we recently had a big ComicCon here in Ottawa, with some relatively big names appearing, including William Shatner. So a lot of their friends were all hyped up to go,  including one guy who blew his entire birthday $$$ on bringing a pile of friends there. Of course, there was little information on in-show costs  (the website said it would be "coming soon" but never showed up) and there were huge Facebook threads about "how much are autographs/photos" and "how much are the discussions?", etc. but again, the organizers kept their mouths shut. (After the Saturday show, some nice folks posted itemized lists of the inflated costs, and there was a healthy slam session after that.)

So these hyped-up teens flow into the ComicCon floor (at $55-$150 a ticket) only to find some seriously high-priced autos, like in the range of hundreds of dollars (and some no-shows) - a huge tomato surprise given that the Con website had absolutely no info and facebook inquiries went unanswered. One girl who paid for her entire family said "there was nothing to do but walk around" as everything was vastly overpriced and scams and ripoffs were everywhere. One jerk was selling "Mystery Boxes" with action figures and toys, and one guy showed his and it was 2 USED and broken action figures that wouldn't sell for 10-cents BNIB. The current joke that day was "Now I know why they call it a Con", which was pretty amusing to me.

As my kid told me on Monday, they were still extremely angry and bitter about being scammed. It was the biggest letdown that many had experienced in their short lives and the poor guy who blew his birthday stash was still irate. They had pocket money with them, like $50-$75 for spending,  but that doesn't do squat when the autograph you want is $200 and pictures are $100. None of them intend to attend another ComicCon. These pseudo-celebrities realize that this gravy train won't run forever, and are trying to bleed the nerds dry as fast as they can, but this whole cycle of greed is just going to kill off the phenomenon even faster. 

Greed kills hobbies, and I remember the exact same thing happening with card shows. I used to take my dad to shows during the mid-late-80's, and it started with free admittance and stars like Bobby Orr, Gordie Howe and Bobby Hull signing autographs for FREE (yes Virginia, it did happen), to the 90's, walking into a $30 show and seeing minor leaguers and never-been's selling their scrawl for $100 or more. I walked out, and never came back, just like these kids at the ComicCon.

 

Sucks really bad for those kids, so bad that they're probably never going to another Con or even worse, will never walk into a LCS ever again.

Whoever organized the Con is the culprit (and maybe the celebrities too) for not being upfront about all costs.

Not all Cons are like that - most (or at least many) do put the info about photo/sig fees for each celebrity on their website. And anyone who's ever been to a Con and could have should have warned the kids about the expected costs once inside - you can't just walk up to Shatner empty handed and get a sig or photo.

The cost of getting INTO the Cons are also getting out of hand too - like you said, lots of folks spend so much of their hard-earned money just to get IN that they can't afford to buy anything.

 

[joe_collector]

2 hours ago, jcjames said:

 

And anyone who's ever been to a Con and could have should have warned the kids about the expected costs once inside - you can't just walk up to Shatner empty handed and get a sig or photo.

 

I was just waiting for a "blame the victim" comment to appear.

I will remind you from my above post, that these are all 15-17 year old kids who have literally never been to a Con before, religiously checked the website and Facebook pages before going, and all had $50-$100 in spending money on them.

One girl went over to get an auto from some co-star on Riverdale and it was $125-$150 a pop, which is absolutely outlandish and kinda heartbreaking if you think about it.

[joe_collector]

3 hours ago, Quicksilver Signs said:

Be curious to see the percentage of kids who read comics by decade, considering practically EVERY kid read comics in the 50's

I've seen demographics on "percentage of comic readers who were kids" and it's like 90% in the 30's and 0% now.

[jcjames]

6 minutes ago, joe_collector said:

I was just waiting for a "blame the victim" comment to appear.

I will remind you from my above post, that these are all 15-17 year old kids who have literally never been to a Con before, religiously checked the website and Facebook pages before going, and all had $50-$100 in spending money on them.

One girl went over to get an auto from some co-star on Riverdale and it was $125-$150 a pop, which is absolutely outlandish and kinda heartbreaking if you think about it.

You should read more.

"... anyone who's ever been to a Con and could have should have warned the kids ..."

Edited June 27, 2017 by jcjames

[joe_collector]

You

1 minute ago, jcjames said:

You should read more.

You should write less.

[jcjames]

5 minutes ago, joe_collector said:

You

You should write less.

Ah, no.

Were you able to warn your kid's friends ahead of the con that there would most likely be additional fees, especially for a guy like Shatner?  

 

[LOC Collectibles]

Most every local con I've gone to I've enjoyed and even if I didn't enjoy it I'm only out give or take $3-10. The problem I have is the huge cons that have outlandish prices. It gives a bad first impression to many young collectors. I feel comics should be a hobby that's accessible to everyone but I think it has been gravitating away from that for the past decade. No one should have to pay 5.99 for a mediocre book on cheap paper. The big 2 are more concerned with their bottom line but in the process they ostracize their true collectors and future readers. I've been reading more Valiant, Image, and Indie titles the past few years and I hope the hobby starts moving more in that direction..

[FineCollector]

The Ottawa/Montreal/Quebec City con circuit is all run by the same group, and they seem to only care about the bottom line.  Among the list of vendors for Montreal, I'm seeing TWO paintball vendors, and no one selling comics from outside the Ottawa-Montreal area.  They're going to kill the comic market here, but I hope things are better elsewhere.

[Hepcat]

On ‎21‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 8:38 PM, Aweandlorder said:

Variants aren't a problem. People who speculate on them CARELESSLY are the problem. 

 

Not a problem for me at all. I don't lose any sleep whatsoever when the speculators on variants get their fingers burned.

 

[VintageComics]

2 hours ago, FineCollector said:

The Ottawa/Montreal/Quebec City con circuit is all run by the same group, and they seem to only care about the bottom line.  Among the list of vendors for Montreal, I'm seeing TWO paintball vendors, and no one selling comics from outside the Ottawa-Montreal area.  They're going to kill the comic market here, but I hope things are better elsewhere.

The market is the same in Toronto.

It's tough to get any real comic book dealers in. Most of the local stores don't do vintage and the stores that sell new stuff, toys, pops, etc already have a client base. There's no reason for them to go to a show.

And US dealers (with the exception of Harley) won't come up. I'm assuming it's the same for getting talent and cars, etc up cheap.

They need to come up from the US, pay their brokers and taxes and so that makes everything more expensive for visitors.

[Hepcat]

On ‎21‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 7:20 PM, TheSSurfer said:

The Future of Comic Books

Me and my coworkers had a discussion today, because I recently bought a Hulk 181. They decided to bring up how baseball cards used to be worth a lot before, but currently the interest is slim to none.

 

 

Vintage(pre-1980)  baseball cards didn't crash in value. The only ones that crashed in "value" were the ones from the nineties being printed in millions that speculators were hoarding, but the question there is why anybody was insufficiently_thoughtful_person enough to pay inflated prices for something that would never be in short supply within their lifetimes.

 

On ‎21‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 8:37 PM, Mercury Man said:

Yeah the blue chip cards will still sell (a recent Ty Cobb stash of cards from an old man's dresser drawer, and didn't another Honus Wagner card just auction off for big money?), but the stuff coming off assembly lines today...pffftt...

 

The same pffftt of course is applicable to any of the stuff coming off assembly lines today, whether they be cards, comics or anything else. If they're fetching inflated prices when there's no shortage of supply (just crazy demand), the day of reckoning will come sooner rather than later. Quite simply crazy demand evaporates.

 

On ‎21‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 8:34 PM, catman76 said:

With the title I assume you meant just the medium of comics, which will be fine, there's probably more being made now than ever before, the amount of self published comics and comics outside the mainstream superhero marvel/dc stuff is bigger and more diverse than ever. Now the money collector side of it? Who cares.

 

Precisely. Who cares?

 

 

 

[Hepcat]

22 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

 

And US dealers (with the exception of Harley) won't come up. I'm assuming it's the same for getting talent and cars, etc up cheap.

 

 

That's why Harley has gotten the lion's share of my comic dollars over the last twenty years. He always shows up, and he shows up with interesting product.