Future of Comics, OA...and guitars? 0

[ESeffinga]

I've mentioned the parallels between other hobbies and comic OA collecting in past threads.

The link below it totally tangential, but I think if you follow along to it's end, it illustrates what might be a wider cultural shift, as older forms of entertainment/interests evolve for the next generation. They don't stop, they just change to a point of being somewhat unrecognizable to us, the older participants. And if nothing else, the aging out of the Baby Boomer generation is the beginning of a closing door for a lot of hobbies, I suspect.

Curious to see some other thoughts...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/lifestyle/the-slow-secret-death-of-the-electric-guitar/?hpid=hp_no-name_graphic-story-a%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.93dcb67b6a41

Edited June 23, 2017 by ESeffinga

[Panelfan1]

Interesting article.  Certainly parallels exist - the difference is that with guitars - current musicians affect sales, where as with art - being that us art collectors are a bit older - nostalgia is a bigger issue.   That is art collectors are influenced by their past more.  

Perhaps the comic book market is a better parallel to the guitar market?

[ESeffinga]

Nostalgia is a HUGE issue with guitarists. They HATE innovation and change. The part about Gibson's features change is a big example of this. It's not a literal direct parallel, but there are massive similarities to do with the aging out of guitar collectors/players. Especially where you mention current musicians affect sales. Similarly to the way Gene's been arguing for years that if new kids don't pick up comics and develop nostalgia for it, it can't hold up the market.

People do collect guitars, both new and vintage, and the cream of the crop (something like a Les Paul Burst from 1958-60) can cost roughly 250K up to a bit over a Mil for real uber-trophy examples. In this case, instruments owned by celebs used to record "classic" albums/tracks for instance. So it's interesting, to me anyway, that even the ceilings are roughly equivalent in both rarity and price.

Guitars like OA, were up until the 70s, a part of the "process" of making a new artform. Many, expecially the oldest, were chewed up and damaged in the process. It was the boomers that turned keeping parts of the process undamaged, or even collecting it into a hobby.

And most folks would tell you the new instruments aren't worth hanging onto, it's the true vintage stuff that's where it's at. And once a 70s era Stratocaster was considered garbage. But as with everything, their prices have risen dramatically because of what they are, age and rarity. I'm sure people can easily think of comic artist equivalents. Work that people used to turn their nose up at, and yet have managed to rise with everything else.

Interestingly, guitars are more often like Comic OA than other durable goods.

 

[delekkerste]

3 hours ago, ESeffinga said:

I've mentioned the parallels between other hobbies and comic OA collecting in past threads.

The link below it totally tangential, but I think if you follow along to it's end, it illustrates what might be a wider cultural shift, as older forms of entertainment/interests evolve for the next generation. They don't stop, they just change to a point of being somewhat unrecognizable to us, the older participants. And if nothing else, the aging out of the Baby Boomer generation is the beginning of a closing door for a lot of hobbies, I suspect.

Curious to see some other thoughts...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/lifestyle/the-slow-secret-death-of-the-electric-guitar/?hpid=hp_no-name_graphic-story-a%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.93dcb67b6a41

Yep - it's like we've been saying.  The shift from the Greatest Generation to the Baby Boomers to Gen X were all evolutionary shifts, but, what we've seen in the past 20-25 years has been nothing less than a step-change revolutionary one.  Many things in that article jibe with what we've been saying - like the fact that there are more guitar manufacturers now than ever, even though the market has shrunk/is shrinking.  Virtually every category has more competitors nowadays due to technology and globalization lowering the cost of everything, from company creation to copyright protection to design to manufacturing to distribution to financing.  Gone are the days when it was just Coke vs. Pepsi, Fender vs. Gibson, Ford vs. GM, Mickey D's vs. BK, Marvel vs. DC, the 4 major TV networks, etc.  Virtually every category has dozens of serious competitors these days.          

Tastes are changing, no doubt, while interests have been split in a nearly-infinite number of directions since ~1995 or so with the rise of the Internet and 24/7 digital broadband communication.  I don't think the love of rock music or the electric guitar is going away, but, it is inevitable that it has been and will decline to a smaller number.  There are simply more options these days, and changing tastes to boot (re:  the rise of electronic music, DJ'ing, etc.)  It will be no different for comics/comic art and a number of other pastimes and hobbies preferred by the Baby Boomers and Gen Xers.  

Edited June 23, 2017 by delekkerste

[zhamlau]

Well in the end, a lot of the issues can be summed up easily: Young people aren't very dedicated to things that take time. Things that are difficult they tend to pass on. Its not a knock exactly, but anything that requires practice and learning external structure just isn't big to them. Its a nation of the unexceptional being raised to believe they are masters of all things.  You raise a generation of kids who get participation trophy's, you cant be shocked when those kids grow up averse to things that don't offer instant guaranteed gratification (like learning how to read music and play an instrument).

You want to be really scared, take a look at how little millennials understand technology (and by extension math and science). Its a shocking concept because you see them on their phones and engaging in gadgetry and social media....but that's not really understanding tech that's just being able interact with toys with simple user interfaces. Truly understanding subjects require time and effort and dedication/specialization. Their generation is very focused on factoids and abstract "facts" from various unrelated fields but they have very little understanding of big picture or process knowledge. If you look at it from that perspective, the idea that fewer of them are learning to play guitar is in no way shape or form shocking.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/03/02/u-s-millennials-post-abysmal-scores-in-tech-skills-test-lag-behind-foreign-peers/?utm_term=.728919459f7a

Edited June 23, 2017 by zhamlau
wrong spelling

[PhilipB2k17]

5 hours ago, ESeffinga said:

Nostalgia is a HUGE issue with guitarists. They HATE innovation and change. The part about Gibson's features change is a big example of this. It's not a literal direct parallel, but there are massive similarities to do with the aging out of guitar collectors/players. Especially where you mention current musicians affect sales. Similarly to the way Gene's been arguing for years that if new kids don't pick up comics and develop nostalgia for it, it can't hold up the market.

People do collect guitars, both new and vintage, and the cream of the crop (something like a Les Paul Burst from 1958-60) can cost roughly 250K up to a bit over a Mil for real uber-trophy examples. In this case, instruments owned by celebs used to record "classic" albums/tracks for instance. So it's interesting, to me anyway, that even the ceilings are roughly equivalent in both rarity and price.

Guitars like OA, were up until the 70s, a part of the "process" of making a new artform. Many, expecially the oldest, were chewed up and damaged in the process. It was the boomers that turned keeping parts of the process undamaged, or even collecting it into a hobby.

And most folks would tell you the new instruments aren't worth hanging onto, it's the true vintage stuff that's where it's at. And once a 70s era Stratocaster was considered garbage. But as with everything, their prices have risen dramatically because of what they are, age and rarity. I'm sure people can easily think of comic artist equivalents. Work that people used to turn their nose up at, and yet have managed to rise with everything else.

Interestingly, guitars are more often like Comic OA than other durable goods.

 

There once was a point in time when Sunday color comic sections were of huge cultural importance. Now, people under 30 don't even read a physical newspaper anymore, let alone the comic strips from them. But, original comic strip art is still marketable. And Hipster culture is really into "vintage" stuff. An OA is as "vintage" as it gets. Its authentic, and unique. 

 

[John E.]

The music culture is at the bottom of my interests so I'm the last person on Earth that should chime in on the "death of the guitar," but yeah, coming of age in the 1990s, there weren't "guitar heroes." When it came to "rock" it was about grunge and wounded vocals (I listened to Pearl Jam and Nirvana). The guitar wasn't a focal point. Then there was the popularity and the rise of gangsta rap and hip hop, with the latter remaining very popular. No guitar there. But y'know, back to the case at hand, I'm sure the eradication of music courses in public schools have nothing to do with that either. Again, back in the '90s, the only thing available related to music was marching band and brass instruments. Bringing it back to OA, I'm still convinced by Gene's argument that OA has maybe a good 15 years before the hobby shrivels.