But, it's just an ugly barcode, right? 2 2

[Lazyboy]

23 minutes ago, valiantman said:

Spawn #9 has been differentiated by CGC since 2013.

Since that time, Spawn #9 has been submitted to CGC 1,411 times.  58 of those are noted as Newsstand.  That's about the same as a 1:20 or 1:25 variant.

Could you please stop saying stuff like that? Incentive variant numbers are only relevant to Direct Market retailers when they are placing their orders for new books. Newsstands were not only not produced and promoted as special editions in that way, they weren't even distributed through the same system.

What we can see now (which is mostly what is for sale in the market) will basically always skew in favor of Direct editions, even if greater numbers of newsstands exist. This is simply due to the nature of the different distribution methods.

Regarding early Image newsstands, they are certainly a small portion of the total distribution, but that would be true even if there were 100,000 of them. The Image hype, leading to a huge number of copies being sold to comic shops, was insane.

[valiantman]

I don't know what portion of "stuff like that" you are objecting to.  If about 4% of copies are newsstand, what else is there to say than it's about 25 direct for each 1 newsstand?

[fastballspecial]

3 hours ago, AnthonyTheAbyss said:

6 hours ago, Gatsby77 said:

I think there's a big difference between variant newsstand covers and simply newsstand books. I don't care about Spawn 1-4 Newsstand.

But I *love* my WildCATS # 2 newwstand (which is just non-foil, and not a second print).

Likewise, Supreme # 1 newsstand (non-foil) is roughly much much harder to find than Supreme # 1 (gold).

I absolutely agree.  I'll always happily pay a premium for a variant newsstand edition.  That WildCATS #2 newsstand is a prime example...

 

 

I agree these are my favorites of the Image Newsstands because not only are the newsstands, but the have a difference in the cover as well. I love it when a fun hobby catches on.  Haters can suck it. 

[Martin Sinescu]

45 minutes ago, fastballspecial said:

Haters can suck it. 

This. I love those ugly lil' bar codes. 

[darkstar]

10 hours ago, ygogolak said:

What Modern Marvel newstands sell for anything?

 

The ASM books as you get closer to 700 for starters. 

[BishopT]

Though I've been mindful of newsstand editions for years, the only one I own that I have always kept in my top tier modern boxes is the ASM 36 vol 2. Recently, it's been joined by the Spawn #1s in my collection, my one Savage Dragon #1 NS, and the Captain America #14 with the Epting cover and Winter Soldier's origin, because I never see it on eBay or otherwise.

Edited June 24, 2017 by BishopT

[Gatsby77]

It worked the other way back in the day too, though.

 

Back at Comicfest'93 or '94 in Philadelphia -- weird show. Valiant was on the downswing and it was during the brief six month period when Ultravere was hot.

Hottest book at the show was Prime # 2 (bagged) for $12-15. Moon Knight 55 was also red hot at $12 and only one dealer had it -- and he had a pile of maybe 20 copies at that price.

But while everyone was trying to stockpile Ultraverse (I think the only issue that had made it to # 5 at that point was Prime) and the incentives (holographic covers, etc.) thinking it was the next Valiant, demand was _only_ for the direct editions.

Going rate for # 1 issues of Prime, Strangers and Hardcase was $4-$6 each, while the # 2s went for slightly more.

But the newsstand editions of all of the Ultraverse books languished (in bulk) at $2 or less.

Only time I've seen that in 25+ years of collecting, and I thought it probably indicated a bubble.

Ironic that today -- if anyone cared about Ultraverse, those boxes of newsstand editions are probably far more rare than their direct sale counterparts).

* Bubble or not, a few weeks after the show I did probably the worst trade of my life -- I gave up 8 NM issues of Byrne X-Men, including 129, for basically a full set of Ultraverse commons -- maybe 45 books at that point.

[fastballspecial]

Man do i miss Ultraverse.

[valiantman]

2 hours ago, Gatsby77 said:

It worked the other way back in the day too, though.

 

Back at Comicfest'93 or '94 in Philadelphia -- weird show. Valiant was on the downswing and it was during the brief six month period when Ultravere was hot.

Hottest book at the show was Prime # 2 (bagged) for $12-15. Moon Knight 55 was also red hot at $12 and only one dealer had it -- and he had a pile of maybe 20 copies at that price.

But while everyone was trying to stockpile Ultraverse (I think the only issue that had made it to # 5 at that point was Prime) and the incentives (holographic covers, etc.) thinking it was the next Valiant, demand was _only_ for the direct editions.

Going rate for # 1 issues of Prime, Strangers and Hardcase was $4-$6 each, while the # 2s went for slightly more.

But the newsstand editions of all of the Ultraverse books languished (in bulk) at $2 or less.

Only time I've seen that in 25+ years of collecting, and I thought it probably indicated a bubble.

Ironic that today -- if anyone cared about Ultraverse, those boxes of newsstand editions are probably far more rare than their direct sale counterparts).

* Bubble or not, a few weeks after the show I did probably the worst trade of my life -- I gave up 8 NM issues of Byrne X-Men, including 129, for basically a full set of Ultraverse commons -- maybe 45 books at that point.

I'd say that you participated in a very unique situation, having newsstand editions of Ultraverse in bulk on hand.  At no comic shops, grocery stores, or Wal-Marts around the country would you have found any newsstand Ultraverse in bulk, and most had none at all.  I'm not sure that was a bubble in the market, but it was definitely a bubble in availability... which wasn't happening outside of (major) conventions.

[Gatsby77]

Yeah - but my takeaway at the time was that the _direct_ versions of basically # 1-3 of the first six Ultraverse titles in a bubble.

It simply didn't make sense that newsstand editions were going for 30-50% of their direct sale counterparts (except for books like Prime 2 where the direct version was bagged, the newwstand wasn't). Same covers on books like Hardcase and Strangers, but for the UPC.

As for newwsstand variants of Marvel books that I could see legit getting a premium -- when the X-Men books went all expensive and shiny around the time of the Phalanx Convenant. Everyone wanted the shiny direct versions (with the higher cover price) vs. the flat newsstand ones. So I reckon the newsstand ones are far more rare today.

 

[fastballspecial]

There are some truly tough Marvel newsstands like the Non Enhanced Thor25/ASM 25 and I think it was FF 25? All 3 of those had non enhanced newsstands that are very tough to find.

[Lazyboy]

2 hours ago, Gatsby77 said:

Yeah - but my takeaway at the time was that the _direct_ versions of basically # 1-3 of the first six Ultraverse titles in a bubble.

It simply didn't make sense that newsstand editions were going for 30-50% of their direct sale counterparts (except for books like Prime 2 where the direct version was bagged, the newwstand wasn't). Same covers on books like Hardcase and Strangers, but for the UPC.

As for newwsstand variants of Marvel books that I could see legit getting a premium -- when the X-Men books went all expensive and shiny around the time of the Phalanx Convenant. Everyone wanted the shiny direct versions (with the higher cover price) vs. the flat newsstand ones. So I reckon the newsstand ones are far more rare today.

You're confusing regular (non-enhanced) DM editions with newsstand editions. Newsstands got enhanced (foil strip) Phalanx Covenant copies and "Deluxe" editions after that.

The regular/cheap editions were always more rare, but since they are DM editions and only 20 years old, they weren't returned/destroyed and have likely suffered minimal attrition.

All copies were defaced with the barcode by that time anyway, although the DM and Newsstand boxes looked slightly different.

[valiantman]

25 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

3 hours ago, Gatsby77 said:

Yeah - but my takeaway at the time was that the _direct_ versions of basically # 1-3 of the first six Ultraverse titles in a bubble.

It simply didn't make sense that newsstand editions were going for 30-50% of their direct sale counterparts (except for books like Prime 2 where the direct version was bagged, the newwstand wasn't). Same covers on books like Hardcase and Strangers, but for the UPC.

As for newwsstand variants of Marvel books that I could see legit getting a premium -- when the X-Men books went all expensive and shiny around the time of the Phalanx Convenant. Everyone wanted the shiny direct versions (with the higher cover price) vs. the flat newsstand ones. So I reckon the newsstand ones are far more rare today.

You're confusing regular (non-enhanced) DM editions with newsstand editions. Newsstands got enhanced (foil strip) Phalanx Covenant copies and "Deluxe" editions after that.

The regular/cheap editions were always more rare, but since they are DM editions and only 20 years old, they weren't returned/destroyed and have likely suffered minimal attrition.

All copies were defaced with the barcode by that time anyway, although the DM and Newsstand boxes looked slightly different.

I was thinking that's what was happening with Gatsby77's comments.  

Back-in-the-day, the cheaper direct editions (when there were 2 covers to choose from) were called "newsstands" but that was a bad description.  Superman #75 is probably the best example.  There was a black bagged "deluxe" direct edition (with tombstone cover), there was a cheaper "standard" direct edition (no bag, with ripped cape cover), and there was a "standard" newsstand edition (no bag, with ripped cape cover).  

  

The difference between the ripped cape covers was whether the UPC box said "By Dan Jurgens and Brett Breeding" (standard direct) or whether there was a barcode in there (standard newsstand).

Edited June 25, 2017 by valiantman

[Lazyboy]

On 2017-06-23 at 7:27 PM, valiantman said:

I don't know what portion of "stuff like that" you are objecting to.  If about 4% of copies are newsstand, what else is there to say than it's about 25 direct for each 1 newsstand?

If a variant is 1:25, that does not mean that if there are 25000 regular copies there have to be exactly 1000 variants. But at least if that were true, it wouldn't be a claim based solely on current observation of a skewed marketplace. If you have any actual newsstand print or distribution numbers, I would very much appreciate it if you shared them.

[valiantman]

7 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

On 6/23/2017 at 7:27 PM, valiantman said:

I don't know what portion of "stuff like that" you are objecting to.  If about 4% of copies are newsstand, what else is there to say than it's about 25 direct for each 1 newsstand?

If a variant is 1:25, that does not mean that if there are 25000 regular copies there have to be exactly 1000 variants. But at least if that were true, it wouldn't be a claim based solely on current observation of a skewed marketplace. If you have any actual newsstand print or distribution numbers, I would very much appreciate it if you shared them.

We don't have newsstand print, distribution, or survival numbers.  What we DO have is the marketplace.  There's no reason to believe that the marketplace is a "skewed marketplace".  It is THE marketplace.  If the marketplace numbers are skewed vs. print, distribution, or survival numbers HOW would that change the marketplace?

Unless a very large chunk of the existing copies are being purposefully withheld (such as DeBeers making people think diamonds aren't literally as common as dirt), then the marketplace is the best available representation of the supply... and the marketplace is always a true representation of the marketplace.

Edited June 25, 2017 by valiantman

[Lazyboy]

3 minutes ago, valiantman said:

We don't have newsstand print, distribution, or survival numbers.  What we DO have is the marketplace.  There's no reason to believe that the marketplace is a "skewed marketplace".  It is THE marketplace.  If the marketplace numbers are skewed vs. print, distribution, or survival numbers HOW would that change the marketplace?

Unless a very large chunk of the existing copies are being purposefully withheld (such as DeBeers making people think diamonds aren't literally as common as dirt), then the marketplace is the best available representation of the supply... and the marketplace is always a true representation of the marketplace.

The marketplace reflects only what is currently available for purchase, not what exists. The easily visible marketplace (eBay being the largest part) is only a small fraction of that.

The nature of direct distribution means that copies that went unsold when the issue was new are still available in the marketplace from people who want to sell them. I can go to my LCS and buy a 5, 10, or 20-year-old comic that they ordered new from Diamond.

The nature of newsstand distribution means that the copies that went unsold when the issue was new were (supposed to be) destroyed. I can't go to any place that still sells newsstand comics and get a 5, 10, or 20-year-old issue.

The marketplace will nearly always disproportionately skew in favor of Direct editions.

[fastballspecial]

2 hours ago, valiantman said:

 

2 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

On ‎6‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 7:27 PM, valiantman said:

I don't know what portion of "stuff like that" you are objecting to.  If about 4% of copies are newsstand, what else is there to say than it's about 25 direct for each 1 newsstand?

If a variant is 1:25, that does not mean that if there are 25000 regular copies there have to be exactly 1000 variants. But at least if that were true, it wouldn't be a claim based solely on current observation of a skewed marketplace. If you have any actual newsstand print or distribution numbers, I would very much appreciate it if you shared them.

We don't have newsstand print, distribution, or survival numbers.  What we DO have is the marketplace.  There's no reason to believe that the marketplace is a "skewed marketplace".  It is THE marketplace.  If the marketplace numbers are skewed vs. print, distribution, or survival numbers HOW would that change the marketplace?

Unless a very large chunk of the existing copies are being purposefully withheld (such as DeBeers making people think diamonds aren't literally as common as dirt), then the marketplace is the best available representation of the supply... and the marketplace is always a true representation of the marketplace.

 

I agree. Unless all of sudden we see a huge influx its a best guess assumption. I like it better when you use % though. That 1:25 term just makes me feel all icky like I am chasing those modern variant junk.

 

Edited June 25, 2017 by fastballspecial

[VegasJeff]

I remember buying comics as a kid on newstands in the late 80's and early 90's. I first discovered comics on a magazine rack in a convenience store.

At the end of the 80's and early 90's, I can tell you for me, it simply started getting hard to get comics outside of a comic shop, period. That's why I kept asking my mom to drive me 30+ miles to get to the first comic shop I went to. 

A lot of places that had comics on the magazine racks simply stopped carrying them due to kids stealing them, not wanting to deal with riff raff, etc. or whatever the reason was. If you did find them on a magazine rack such as in a grocery store, a lot of the copies could be beat up from people looking at them and/or the selection might not be good. That's why would you want to go to a comic store. If you did find the rare place that was an entire store dedicated to be a newstand that sold every sort of magazine they usually would have some comics and a better selection but that selection would be nothing like a comic store. In big cities, which I did not live, the book superstores showed up at some point and they would have a better selection of comics than a typical magazine rack at a grocery store/convenience store. 

[___]

On ‎6‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 8:44 PM, Lazyboy said:

You're confusing regular (non-enhanced) DM editions with newsstand editions. Newsstands got enhanced (foil strip) Phalanx Covenant copies and "Deluxe" editions after that.

The regular/cheap editions were always more rare, but since they are DM editions and only 20 years old, they weren't returned/destroyed and have likely suffered minimal attrition.

All copies were defaced with the barcode by that time anyway, although the DM and Newsstand boxes looked slightly different.

you must not own any newsstand copies of books, haters gonna hate

[Lazyboy]

17 minutes ago, 1p36DSA said:

On 2017-06-24 at 7:44 PM, Lazyboy said:

You're confusing regular (non-enhanced) DM editions with newsstand editions. Newsstands got enhanced (foil strip) Phalanx Covenant copies and "Deluxe" editions after that.

The regular/cheap editions were always more rare, but since they are DM editions and only 20 years old, they weren't returned/destroyed and have likely suffered minimal attrition.

All copies were defaced with the barcode by that time anyway, although the DM and Newsstand boxes looked slightly different.

you must not own any newsstand copies of books, haters gonna hate

What? Did you quote the wrong post?