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Nominating DavidtheDavid
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318 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Mxwll Smrt said:

NO, I say I need to see the book up close again and I'll buy the book back - and nowhere do I offer a full refund.

It was probably the last line of that PM where you say you'll "have the money sent back to you on Monday". Money going "back" to him gives the impression of it being his money being returned to him. 

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3 hours ago, Mxwll Smrt said:

David is the one who missed my statement(s) and he is also the one who first used the term "refund" after the book was shipped. The money I offered was for a buy back and I stated needed to see the book again - and for a damaged book that drops from a VF+ to maybe a F/VF there's a real price drop. He's the one who assumed and twisted my words - he was the one that threw it in the mail and then stated "we need to proceed with a refund" when one was never offered.

My comment which came much later and after tearing into the buyer  was only used because I got twisted up (and after vehemently saying "NO"  several different ways).

Sorry to some of the guys here but missing the dialogue - this buyer is great at getting everyone twisted up. 

Not everyone here is missing the dialogue.  Some of us are paying very close attention to it.

You tore into the buyer immediately following his telling you that he was sending the book back to you, and after he had provided a tracking number that showed it was on the way.  Anyone reading the PM conversation posted in this thread can see that the conversation up to that point had not actually gotten contentious, but was mostly disappointment and confusion by both parties over what had happened to the book.  The buyer asked for your address to send the book back, you gave it to him, he sent you the tracking info, and then you unloaded on him:

"People should know that you damaged the book ... I am totally of the belief that you did something that screwed it up and then passed it back to me and I'm pretty angry ... I'm so tired of guys like you who just lie ... "

Your words, followed by you telling him to not send the book back.  Up until that point, do you want to point out where you had specifically told him NOT to send the book back, because it's that point -- after giving him a return address and getting the notification that it had already shipped -- that you said your first "No".  Not "No" in multiple different ways the way you claim, and your blowing your top didn't come as a result of that, because that's simply not in that PM chain that's been posted here.  You've already tried in this thread to manipulate the timeline of what was said and done in that PM chain, and were called on it by me, so forgive me if I'm actually going to look back at what was posted and not take you at your word.

You're probably going to take this the wrong way, but so be it.  I buy a ton of stuff here.  I've bought a ton from pretty much every major dealer around the country at one time or another.  I sell here, and I've had almost no issues, but on the very rare occasion anything has come up, either as a buyer or seller, I have NEVER had someone go from the cordial tone of the 4th post of that PM chain (yours) to the accusatory tones you replied with barely two hours later with that kind of speed.  If I suspected something of a buyer that was fishy, I still would make damn sure that I was 100% correct before I jumped on someone the way you did.  I mentioned earlier in this thread about where I had books either damaged or missing from an order, and in none of those cases did the seller immediately go into "You did something, and you're trying to pull a fast one on me" mode.

I've repeated ad nauseam that I think there's nothing nefarious that went on here, simply somewhere, the book got damaged.  Your reputation may be good, but after watching how you've handled this situation -- even if you were to be "right" or win the PayPal dispute -- whether we've done business together before or not, I won't do so in the future.  I don't want to take a chance of possibly buying something from you, having something happen that I didn't do, and have you jumping on me with that kind of anger.  Too many good sellers here, too many venues available, and at this point in my life, I don't need the aggravation you could potentially cause.  As multiple people have said in this thread, I'm about as nice and easy to get along with as there is, so if I feel this way, don't fool yourself into thinking I'm the only one.  

While we're at it, and we're picking nits in those PM's -- it was mentioned in those PM's -- and in your initial selling thread -- that money issues you were having were of a concern.  Those might also have relevance into a discussion about issuing a return on a four-figure book.  Which, by the way, has been in your possession now since 12:24 Tuesday afternoon -- which I would think would have been something you might have mentioned at some point today -- that also might be of relevance at this point.  A mention of what the book looked like when it arrived, etc., would seem to be of major relevance to the discussion.  You've had the book for almost 12 hours as of this post -- but chosen not to comment on what it looked like when you got it back, differences you might have noticed from when it was shipped out, current scans, etc.  Considering that's hitting at the heart of this whole disagreement, in your shoes, I would have been in here immediately with that info -- but maybe that's just me.

ETA: Since the book is currently in your possession -- as is the full payment for the book -- are you planning to send the book back to the buyer until a resolution is reached?  Or send it to a neutral 3rd party that you both agree to until some resolution is reached?  Or are you holding onto both?  Again, somewhat relevant to the discussion.

ETA 2: Apparently, we have done business before, back in April.  And it was a pleasant transaction, by all apparent takes.  I left positive kudos for you, and looking back through our PM, everything was very nice and friendly.  If anything, that should show to you that, having dealt with you happily before, I have no axe to grind with you, no stake in this matter (other than to hopefully see a resolution that leaves all parties satisfied, though it seems to me that will be impossible judging by, if nothing else, the tone of the dispute), and nor do I have a lack of sympathy or understanding of your position.  What I've posted, however, I stand by, which makes me, frankly, as disappointed than anything. 

Edited by ChiSoxFan
Book in hand. Plus, previous history info. And time info. As in, "I clearly have way too much free time to be following this cluster#$&@", lol
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7 hours ago, ChiSoxFan said:

Not everyone here is missing the dialogue.  Some of us are paying very close attention to it.

Your opinion and its not based in fact. 

Quote

You tore into the buyer immediately following his telling you that he was sending the book back to you, and after he had provided a tracking number that showed it was on the way.  Anyone reading the PM conversation posted in this thread can see that the conversation up to that point had not actually gotten contentious, but was mostly disappointment and confusion by both parties over what had happened to the book.  The buyer asked for your address to send the book back, you gave it to him, he sent you the tracking info, and then you unloaded on him:

"People should know that you damaged the book ... I am totally of the belief that you did something that screwed it up and then passed it back to me and I'm pretty angry ... I'm so tired of guys like you who just lie ... "

 

So what...it's what I did...It doesn't change my words.

Quote

Your words, followed by you telling him to not send the book back.  Up until that point, do you want to point out where you had specifically told him NOT to send the book back, because it's that point -- after giving him a return address and getting the notification that it had already shipped -- that you said your first "No".  Not "No" in multiple different ways the way you claim, and your blowing your top didn't come as a result of that, because that's simply not in that PM chain that's been posted here.  You've already tried in this thread to manipulate the timeline of what was said and done in that PM chain, and were called on it by me, so forgive me if I'm actually going to look back at what was posted and not take you at your word.

So what... your interpretation doesn't make your perspective correct. You assume to understand what i was thinking and meant. I'd rather not buy a book back because it has so little value after being damaged. The price on a FF211 drops like a lead weight. No manipulation - form taken to illustrate - and the pm's speak for themselves. You seem to be caught up at a finger rather than what the finger is pointing to. I believe you simply have taken an incorrect position.

Quote

You're probably going to take this the wrong way, but so be it.  I buy a ton of stuff here.  I've bought a ton from pretty much every major dealer around the country at one time or another.  I sell here, and I've had almost no issues, but on the very rare occasion anything has come up, either as a buyer or seller, I have NEVER had someone go from the cordial tone of the 4th post of that PM chain (yours) to the accusatory tones you replied with barely two hours later with that kind of speed.  If I suspected something of a buyer that was fishy, I still would make damn sure that I was 100% correct before I jumped on someone the way you did.  I mentioned earlier in this thread about where I had books either damaged or missing from an order, and in none of those cases did the seller immediately go into "You did something, and you're trying to pull a fast one on me" mode.

So what - but by your own admission you haven't, so we don't know and OK, that's you. And??? Wow. So is this a therapy session for you? Seriously, you have no idea what goes on in my life and its beyond arrogant and your disclaimer as to " you're probably going to take this the wrong way" doesn't preclude me to having my feelings that because the book was so beautiful or feeling that anything the buyer tells me is BS. And you remain unaccountable for glossing over the comments with the return. You show no remorse in going after me.

Quote

I've repeated ad nauseam that I think there's nothing nefarious that went on here, simply somewhere, the book got damaged.  Your reputation may be good, but after watching how you've handled this situation -- even if you were to be "right" or win the PayPal dispute -- whether we've done business together before or not, I won't do so in the future.  I don't want to take a chance of possibly buying something from you, having something happen that I didn't do, and have you jumping on me with that kind of anger.  Too many good sellers here, too many venues available, and at this point in my life, I don't need the aggravation you could potentially cause.  As multiple people have said in this thread, I'm about as nice and easy to get along with as there is, so if I feel this way, don't fool yourself into thinking I'm the only one.  

You clearly like to hear yourself. OK. We  will not do business. Thanks for letting me know. You're doing me a great favor.

Quote

While we're at it, and we're picking nits in those PM's -- it was mentioned in those PM's -- and in your initial selling thread -- that money issues you were having were of a concern.  Those might also have relevance into a discussion about issuing a return on a four-figure book.  Which, by the way, has been in your possession now since 12:24 Tuesday afternoon -- which I would think would have been something you might have mentioned at some point today -- that also might be of relevance at this point.  A mention of what the book looked like when it arrived, etc., would seem to be of major relevance to the discussion.  You've had the book for almost 12 hours as of this post -- but chosen not to comment on what it looked like when you got it back, differences you might have noticed from when it was shipped out, current scans, etc.  Considering that's hitting at the heart of this whole disagreement, in your shoes, I would have been in here immediately with that info -- but maybe that's just me.

I've had to re-read your comments several times and am blown away so since you've commented, I've helped support two elderly people in assisted living with medical care. I have for some time. I have a blockchain start up where I invested in some of the wrong people. I also lost my Duo 2 level authentication information with an iPhone update and was locked out of my coinbase account. 

As for the books arrival, there's a police report and I will be opening the book and going over the details with a local detective. And let me add this piece because I forgot and its edited now for all of 20 seconds delay.

David and you and anyone else that has a problem with me keeping the book sealed while I wait to be contacted by the Detective will need to keep their panties in a wad. It was David's choice to misinterpretation and twisting of "buy back" and "first see up close". The comment about the money is simply to buy the book back - he was going to be upset with my terms either way.

Moreover, the book doesn't get mailed back to David because of the Paypal investigation and LE's involvement....and I'd be more than happy to send the book to Vincent at Metropolis or Jon at Comiclink to hold onto after LE and Paypal have been determined should it needs to go anywhere else. If you like I can attach of the sealed book here to this thread.

Quote

ETA: Since the book is currently in your possession -- as is the full payment for the book -- are you planning to send the book back to the buyer until a resolution is reached?  Or send it to a neutral 3rd party that you both agree to until some resolution is reached?  Or are you holding onto both?  Again, somewhat relevant to the discussion.

ETA 2: Apparently, we have done business before, back in April.  And it was a pleasant transaction, by all apparent takes.  I left positive kudos for you, and looking back through our PM, everything was very nice and friendly.  If anything, that should show to you that, having dealt with you happily before, I have no axe to grind with you, no stake in this matter (other than to hopefully see a resolution that leaves all parties satisfied, though it seems to me that will be impossible judging by, if nothing else, the tone of the dispute), and nor do I have a lack of sympathy or understanding of your position.  What I've posted, however, I stand by, which makes me, frankly, as disappointed than anything. 

Go back - re-read the comments - and without assumption.

Edited by Mxwll Smrt
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7 hours ago, comix4fun said:

It was probably the last line of that PM where you say you'll "have the money sent back to you on Monday". Money going "back" to him gives the impression of it being his money being returned to him. 

No, that's your incorrect inference. I simply state that he'll have money sent. My previous comment(s) are clear.

Edited by Mxwll Smrt
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13 minutes ago, Mxwll Smrt said:

Your opinion and its not based in fact. 

So what...it's what I did...It doesn't change my words.

So what... your interpretation doesn't make your perspective correct. You assume to understand what i was thinking and meant. I'd rather not buy a book back because it has so little value after being damaged. The price on a FF211 drops like a lead weight. No manipulation - form taken to illustrate - and the pm's speak for themselves. You seem to be caught up at a finger rather than what the finger is pointing to. I believe you simply have taken an incorrect position.

So what - but by your own admission you haven't, so we don't know and OK, that's you. And??? Wow. So is this a therapy session for you? Seriously, you have no idea what goes on in my life and its beyond arrogant and your disclaimer as to " you're probably going to take this the wrong way" doesn't preclude me to having my feelings that because the book was so beautiful or feeling that anything the buyer tells me is BS. And you remain unaccountable for glossing over the comments with the return. You show no remorse in going after me.

You clearly like to hear yourself. OK. We  will not do business. Thanks for letting me know. You're doing me a great favor.

I've had to re-read your comments several times and am blown away so since you've commented, I've helped support two elderly people in assisted living with medical care. I have for some time. I have a blockchain start up where I invested in some of the wrong people. I also lost my Duo 2 level authentication information with an iPhone update and was locked out of my coinbase account. 

As for the books arrival, there's a police report and I will be opening the book and going over the details with a local detective. And let me add this piece because I forgot and its edited now for all of 20 seconds delay.

David and you and anyone else that has a problem with me keeping the book sealed while I wait to be contacted by the Detective will need to keep their panties in a wad. It was David's choice to misinterpretation and twisting of "buy back" and "first see up close". The comment about the money is simply to buy the book back - he was going to be upset with my terms either way.

Moreover, the book doesn't get mailed back to David because of the Paypal investigation and LE's involvement....and I'd be more than happy to send the book to Vincent at Metropolis or Jon at Comiclink to hold onto after LE and Paypal have been determined should it needs to go anywhere else. If you like I can attach of the sealed book here to this thread.

Go back - re-read the comments - and without assumption.

Randall is one of the nicest people on these forums.  You sound like you're a lot of fun at a party man. 

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That book probably got damaged going back in the Mylar ...bad crease ...when ? 

 

By the seller packaging up a $1500   book making sure to get it to his buyer safe and sound ? 

 

Or the buyer who who rarely has time to open pacakages and never noticed the crease when he looked at it briefly and said the booked looked dynamite and do you have a Kudos .. 

 

Looks like a case of Unsolved Myseries ... 

 

 

 

Edited by Paddy_McShillihan
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2 hours ago, Mxwll Smrt said:

No, that's your incorrect inference. I simply state that he'll have money sent. My previous comment(s) are clear.

Perhaps it's incorrect phrasing and not an incorrect inference. 

This is the most amazing probation discussion ever. Everyone's done something incorrect or communicated in an unclear way and no one's admitting they did anything wrong.

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6 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

Perhaps it's incorrect phrasing and not an incorrect inference. 

This is the most amazing probation discussion ever. Everyone's done something incorrect or communicated in an unclear way and no one's admitting they did anything wrong.

It is Bizarre 

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31 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

Perhaps it's incorrect phrasing and not an incorrect inference. 

This is the most amazing probation discussion ever. Everyone's done something incorrect or communicated in an unclear way and no one's admitting they did anything wrong.

I should have spent more time on my initial inspection. Upon removing the book from its mylar and bag and board, the front corner damage was evident, though I didn't look carefully at that time. The front corner damage would easily explain the back corner damage. That tells me the book was damaged upon receipt. How and when he damaged it in the sending, I don't know. So yes, I should have inspected more carefully at the start, or waited to respond to him until I had time to look at it more thoroughly. As stated earlier, my life is busy. I don't go into Christmas Morning mode when a comic arrives. I do like to let the seller know that I've received something, especially on an expensive book as that's just polite.

When Maxwell flipped to hostile and accusatory, it quickly became obvious that reaching an amicable resolution was not in the works and that PayPal would best provide restitution. I have as much trust in him to do the right thing as he probably has for me. The detective thing is a bit of a gas, but hey, knock yourself out. I'll keep an eye out for the private investigators circling my house.

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14 hours ago, wombat said:

It's a public board. This is a public nomination. Discussion ensues. That's the way it works. 

I had a nap. I felt better later.

Still, it's about PL. It's not about non-professionals attempting to litigate or mitigate something in a public forum, or mediate a financial dispute. Nor is it about professionals, who by most professional codes of conduct would be out of line doing so, inserting their informed judgment. That's my gripe. But yeah, I know people do what people do, unthinking or not. Not trying to argue with you or snap at you. It's just what I think, and it's what turns me off about this kind of thing. 

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11 minutes ago, DavidTheDavid said:

I had a nap. I felt better later.

Still, it's about PL. It's not about non-professionals attempting to litigate or mitigate something in a public forum, or mediate a financial dispute. Nor is it about professionals, who by most professional codes of conduct would be out of line doing so, inserting their informed judgment. That's my gripe. But yeah, I know people do what people do, unthinking or not. Not trying to argue with you or snap at you. It's just what I think, and it's what turns me off about this kind of thing. 

Well, you just eliminated everyone and everything that's going to be said in a thread like this besides "Nice Book" and "What Time's Lunch?"

 

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5 hours ago, Mxwll Smrt said:

So what...

So what....

So what - 

Repeated three times.  Which is pretty much, "You're saying things, but I don't really care what they are, or if anything you say has merit."  A lot of people have suggested a number of constructive things, including possible solutions, and commented throughout.  Has your reaction been the same to all of those comments as well?

5 hours ago, Mxwll Smrt said:

You clearly like to hear yourself. 

Talk about wow.  I rarely interject myself into proceedings on here, but this is a PL discussion, and unless you've never seen one or looked at one before, that's what people do -- discuss.  They ask questions, press parties on the facts, and do all of this to determine if a PL place for someone is necessary. You've claimed people here are making assumptions, yet you go here and do the same exact thing about me, even though you've kept interjecting yourself into the discussion as well. Do you need to borrow a mirror before you make that statement?

 

5 hours ago, Mxwll Smrt said:

So is this a therapy session for you? Seriously, you have no idea what goes on in my life and its beyond arrogant and your disclaimer as to " you're probably going to take this the wrong way" doesn't preclude me to having my feelings that because the book was so beautiful or feeling that anything the buyer tells me is BS. And you remain unaccountable for glossing over the comments with the return. You show no remorse in going after me.

It's not therapy, nor is it any fun.  You have no idea what goes on in my life either.  Now that I've asked you again about other relevant facts involved, you've chosen to make a veiled personal insult.  And your comment about "going after you" has no merit, considering that if you actually read numerous things I've posted throughout, I've made numerous statements that I didn't think either party had malicious intent, and even in that last statement, I repeated the same.  And what's this about me being "accountable"?  I'm not the one who opened up a PL nomination here, so it's not my "accountability" that's on the line here -- it's yours and the buyers. Also, I didn't gloss over your "return" comments.  You said, throughout those PM's, that you would "buy the book" back, have the money back to him by Monday, then have money back to him when the book was received, then no money back to him whatsoever".  That's a lot of different statements you made in a short amount of time. At this point, it's hard to figure out what your intentions even were with him in the PM's, because you changed your tune (and tone) multiple times in a short period. 

 

5 hours ago, Mxwll Smrt said:

I've had to re-read your comments several times and am blown away so since you've commented, I've helped support two elderly people in assisted living with medical care. I have for some time. I have a blockchain start up where I invested in some of the wrong people. I also lost my Duo 2 level authentication information with an iPhone update and was locked out of my coinbase account. 

Great for you if you assist people with medical care.  I'm sorry you lost money in some fashion.

None of that matters, unless it's affecting the actual PL case.

I had a mini-stroke about a month ago.  I'm being tested for bladder cancer on July 5th.  I was diagnosed with Fibromyalgia six months ago and spend every day in some amount of pain, either slight or major. I have medical bills out the wazoo. My mother died in April, unexpectedly, and while she was living with me.  She and my stepfather, my wife and I moved in with us a couple of years ago to take care of them, and I was the one to discover that she had died. Guess what -- life sucks for a bunch of people, not just you or me.

And none of that matters here either -- unless it's relevant.  Money issues on your end are fair game when trying to determine what's happening with a PL nomination -- look back at the Chip Cataldo case as a perfect example.  Money issues on your end -- no matter why they occurred -- become relevant information if you would be unable to do a refund on a book of that amount.  It's why I brought it up -- no, you actually brought it up in a very recent sales thread and the PM's with the buyer (in which the buyer said, in order to try to help you, he'd rather keep the book and find a better solution financially for you than a return).  Don't get angry if the subject is asked about when you brought it into the discussion in both the above referenced instances.

5 hours ago, Mxwll Smrt said:

As for the books arrival, there's a police report and I will be opening the book and going over the details with a local detective. And let me add this piece because I forgot and its edited now for all of 20 seconds delay.

You've bringing the police into this matter?  Again, all I can say is ... wow.  There's 8 full pages of commentary about this, and umpteen boardies -- including myself -- have said or acknowledged that the buyer made an error in not going over the book better when first received (a mistake, I've admitted to making myself, FWIW).  Even the buyer, a few posts above this, acknowledges the same thing.  I don't believe anyone here has stated that they thing the buyer has pulled some sort of fraud on you (such as damaging the book, then intentionally trying to pass it off otherwise, which has been your claim), or they've stated that proving any such claim would be pretty much impossible.  But you've now made this into a criminal matter?  Really?  That's a complete overreaction, and if that doesn't put up a red flag for someone dealing with you in the future, I don't know what would. doh!

 

5 hours ago, Mxwll Smrt said:

David and you and anyone else that has a problem with me keeping the book sealed while I wait to be contacted by the Detective will need to keep their panties in a wad. It was David's choice to misinterpretation and twisting of "buy back" and "first see up close". The comment about the money is simply to buy the book back - he was going to be upset with my terms either way.

Moreover, the book doesn't get mailed back to David because of the Paypal investigation and LE's involvement....and I'd be more than happy to send the book to Vincent at Metropolis or Jon at Comiclink to hold onto after LE and Paypal have been determined should it needs to go anywhere else. If you like I can attach of the sealed book here to this thread.

My "panties aren't in a wad".  You currently have the book AND the money for it.  At this point, the buyer is the one who is potentially completely out of pocket 100%.  What you do with the book is your decision, but keeping both it AND the money paid for it seems wrong, for lack of a better term.  People with legal backgrounds can comment on the implications of that -- I won't, other than I'm glad I'm not in the buyer's shoes right now, because for all of your protesting, he's clearly the one currently with the most to lose, depending on how you proceed from here.

 

5 hours ago, Mxwll Smrt said:

OK. We  will not do business. Thanks for letting me know. You're doing me a great favor.

In fairness, I saved this comment for last.  One of us started a PL thread about another member almost instantaneously after a disagreement about something regarding a transaction occurred.  One of us, in that disagreement, flipped the switch from cordial to harshly accusatory to another member within literally hours.  One of us is bringing the police into what should be a civil manner, handled professionally and with respect, with both parties working to find as amicable a solution as possible.  One of us has made factually incorrect statements here, had them pointed out, and then went ahead and retracted them. One of us has resorted to personally insulting the other one here, when that other one has stated numerous times that they sympathized with your position and didn't believe you had done anything nefarious (the former, a position I'm certainly starting to rethink).  Anyone reading this thread knows who that "one" is (hint: it's not me).  I'm doing you a great favor?  If you believe that, then that's more proof I'm making the right decision to put you on any "Do not deal with" list for the future. :facepalm:

Edited by ChiSoxFan
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4 hours ago, entalmighty1 said:

Randall is one of the nicest people on these forums.   

I appreciate that, as well as some of the other people who've said the same in this very thread.  I try to treat everyone the way I'd want to be treated.  Life is too short -- as I've discovered all too recently myself -- to take anything for granted.  At the end of the day, books are just possessions -- when you die, no one's going to say anything about that great copy of that AF #15 you owned.  They're going to remember the person you were and how you treated others.  You can lose everything around you, but who you are as a person is the one thing you own from the cradle to the grave.  I try to remember that.   Thanks again. :foryou:

Edited by ChiSoxFan
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13 hours ago, Bomber-Bob said:

Interesting, I think we all missed this fact. The seller did not offer a refund, he offered to buy the book back, not necessarily at the original purchase price.   

It is interesting that most took his comment to mean "I will refund the full purchase price". I know I did with the few posts I read.

Are scans of the book available showing before and after? I would like to see exactly what type of damage occurred.

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Just now, ChiSoxFan said:

What time's lunch?  Are you buying? :foryou: :wishluck:

I'll have to check the Professional Code of Conduct to see if that constitutes improper inducement first. 

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7 minutes ago, joeypost said:

It is interesting that most took his comment to mean "I will refund the full purchase price". I know I did with the few posts I read.

 

It's probably because those PMs carried the bookends of "Sure, send it back" and that after getting the book back he will "have the money sent back to you on Monday".

"Send it back" and "have the money sent back to you" will do that to a reader. But it's probably all our fault. 

 

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