Negotiations that go nowhere 0

[Robot Man]

Make him a fair offer and let him know exactly how about you come up with the price. There is no need trying to educate a guy like this. A guy like this will never accept your offer. This stuff while not common, is far from being rare. How many X-Men #1's are on the bay today. That will tell you how rare it is. Use your head, not your emotions. 

Be prepared in a few weeks for him to call you back and offer you the collection (with the good ones missing of course).

[october]

15 minutes ago, 1Cool said:

I may be wrong but I think October sells a lot directly so he avoids the 12% fees.  That is why he knocks 10-15% off retail (even on the keys).

I would gladly pay 65% of GPA for raw keys like X-Men 1, FF 48, WWBN 32, FF 52, DD 1, etc in almost any grade.

Restocking these is too difficult and selling them is too easy to expect a half-off haircut.  

 

[FlyingDonut]

33 minutes ago, october said:

Who said anything about selling on eBay or with PayPal?

I routinely buy keys at less margin than that. So do dealers. If dealers had to buy every book at half retail their walls would be bare. You think guys like Dale and Bob are paying 50% off on keys like X-Men 1? 

No, but they're not getting all keys. I'm pretty sure Dale's paying 80% off on the ubiquitous Challengers of the Unknown and Blackhawks that are always there.

[FlyingDonut]

57 minutes ago, october said:

Really? I would buy those books endlessly at a 35% discount. They sell instantly at 10-15% off retail. I will take 20-25% for doing next to nothing. 

Fair point if you can move all of them. I'd just be worried (without seeing them all) that you'd be moving all the good stuff and be left with the Flash 150-162 run in VG that you literally can't give away.

[october]

2 minutes ago, FlyingDonut said:

Fair point if you can move all of them. I'd just be worried (without seeing them all) that you'd be moving all the good stuff and be left with the Flash 150-162 run in VG that you literally can't give away.

Yeah, I was just talking about the keys. The rest of the stuff is a very different story. 

[Michelangelo]

Great points guys. Thanks for all your input. 

As mentioned, the answer I was looking for has been typed here more than once. Most appreciated!

47 minutes ago, Robot Man said:

There is no need trying to educate a guy like this. A guy like this will never accept your offer.

You're exactly right - he won't accept it.. 

[Michelangelo]

2 hours ago, fmaz said:

By the way, is your sole plan to take these books and flip them? Not keep any for your personal collection?  Because if you're just flipping them... maybe an alternative is to offer to broker for him.  Tell him that you'll take the books and sell them for him, in exchange for 30% of the profit.

I just threw that percentage out there, seemed like a decent number for what you'd be doing off the top of my head.  
Clearly you'd be able to get a lot more for these books than he would, and you'd know how to move them in ways that he wouldn't... so he'd be getting 70% of top dollar for doing nothing.

And you'd get 30% profit and assume no risk on unsold inventory.

Just a thought.

My plan would be to flip most of them and keep some of the ones I don't have, or replace existing books I have with ones in better shape.

Good idea on making a deal to sell them for a %

[Michelangelo]

2 hours ago, 1Cool said:

wow - our definition of over the moon is different.  I'm usually dealing with guys hanging onto Star Wars 1 and X-Men 141 and would flip out if a sellers had books like X-Men 1 or ASM 129.  Sounds like he has a nice batch of keys so I'd take into account this and maybe offer him 35% less then FMV on his keys since 20% profit on a $2,000 books is still $400.  Still offer 50% on the lesser books but at least giving him more for the keys may get you closer to his number.  But if he wants full retail and even higher for his books wish him well and move on.  Nothing worse then spending all your effort and time and still not getting a sale.

 - some of the books in the lot are awesome; no doubt about it. That's the reason I don't want to let this go...

By over-the-moon-amazing I was referring to books so rare or keys so big and in such great shape that they'd be featured in a Heritage auction.

[jhutton2]

Sounds like you are pretty late in the discussion but I would offer up three things that I have found helpful in purchasing collections in the past:

1)  Do not invest too much time in educating the seller about their books.   The more info you provide, the more likely it is they will decide to hold on to the books or try getting more money elsewhere in my experience.   You may need to provide some frame of reference for them regarding grading etc. to get them in a realistic place to sell, but I would not do much more than this for the reasons above.

2) If someone is stuck on thinking there books are great condition when in fact they are mid grade or lower grade, I bring along and show them a slabbed copy of a 9.0 or 9.2 book to show them what a book in that grade actually looks like.  Usually their books are nowhere near the condition of the slabbed book, and this I have found is a very useful tool to demonstrate what a high grade book actually looks like.  I have found this to be a great tool to get sellers being realistic about their books

3) Find out what they want to do with their funds once they get them from the books.  Getting insights in to what they want to use the money for can be very helpful in discussions.   If they are being overly ambitious with what they want to do with the funds (buy a brand new Mustang for example) and they have a couple of thousand worth of books only, it is likely going to be ineffective to negotiate with them, don't waste your time, or make an offer and walk away with an invitation to call you back if they change their mind.

One extra thing, once you agree on a price.  Shake on it, pay them immediately and take the books and leave.   Don't provide them the opportunity to back out once a deal has been brokered.  Hope you get the books.

Warmest Regards,

Jason

[Michelangelo]

2 minutes ago, jhutton2 said:

Sounds like you are pretty late in the discussion but I would offer up three things that I have found helpful in purchasing collections in the past:

1)  Do not invest too much time in educating the seller about their books.   The more info you provide, the more likely it is they will decide to hold on to the books or try getting more money elsewhere in my experience.   You may need to provide some frame of reference for them regarding grading etc. to get them in a realistic place to sell, but I would not do much more than this for the reasons above.

2) If someone is stuck on thinking there books are great condition when in fact they are mid grade or lower grade, I bring along and show them a slabbed copy of a 9.0 or 9.2 book to show them what a book in that grade actually looks like.  Usually their books are nowhere near the condition of the slabbed book, and this I have found is a very useful tool to demonstrate what a high grade book actually looks like.  I have found this to be a great tool to get sellers being realistic about their books

3) Find out what they want to do with their funds once they get them from the books.  Getting insights in to what they want to use the money for can be very helpful in discussions.   If they are being overly ambitious with what they want to do with the funds (buy a brand new Mustang for example) and they have a couple of thousand worth of books only, it is likely going to be ineffective to negotiate with them, don't waste your time, or make an offer and walk away with an invitation to call you back if they change their mind.

One extra thing, once you agree on a price.  Shake on it, pay them immediately and take the books and leave.   Don't provide them the opportunity to back out once a deal has been brokered.  Hope you get the books.

Warmest Regards,

Jason

Thanks Jason - Great insight!

[jhutton2]

1 hour ago, Readcomix said:

I think the correct answer has been provided numerous times here. I would only add keep his name and # in your phone only because in my experience a capitulation call does come, sometimes over a year later.  Take Artboy's advice; don't get strung along consulting for free for months. Offer should sound final and best you can do; just inform him to keep your # as the door remains open.

Many times they are time wasters and nothing happens; but more than a few times I've gotten the books at my number quite a ways down the road. The difference between these folks and the time wasters are these are the ones who eventually reason it out themselves and accept reality.

The largest collection of books I every purchased worked out this way.  I gave my offer with a brief explanation of my number and he said no.    I left it with an open invitation to call me if he changed his mind in the near future.  He called me about 4 weeks later and accepted my offer.

[Unca Ben]

1 hour ago, Artboy99 said:

Even more annoying are the non committal types.

Another collection local to me, is a couple dozen long boxes and it does have some great books in it. We finally get a chance to look at the collection, we get to the guys house at 10:30 AM on Sunday and after viewing about 10 boxes he tells us we have to leave as he has to be at a breakfast at 11 AM. Head scratcher there. Anyways we make an offer, he says kind of low, we ask what he was expecting and he quotes us a figure so we raise our offer to in between the 2 numbers. No negotiation from the owner, he just declines. Over time we contact him again and we offer him the price he was asking. Even then he hummed and hawed, said he needed to ask his wife and we never heard from him again. Actually offered him his asking price and still didn't get the collection, the ultimate in a negotiation that went nowhere.

It sounds like the guy got a free appraisal. 

[Batman1fan]

Having been in the business world most of my life, it blows my mind that someone is trying to sell a collection, but will not name a price for it.  He then solicits offers, but subsequently rejects those offers without coming back with a counter offer.  That's nuts.  I understand you want the books, but by now, the seller knows that you want them.  You've made your offer(s), which have been rejected, without the courtesy of a counter offer.  At this point, I would walk away.  If the seller contacts you again, tell him you already made your offer and it hasn't changed, he can take it or leave it.  Nobody in their right mind is going to pay 9.2 prices for the low to mid grade books that he has and sooner or later he'll figure that out.  It's not like he has a copy of Fantastic Comics 3, while he has desireable books, you can go on ebay anytime of the day and find multiple copies of every one of them.  You took a good swing, but at this point I would cut bait and move on.

[Michelangelo]

29 minutes ago, Batman1fan said:

Having been in the business world most of my life, it blows my mind that someone is trying to sell a collection, but will not name a price for it.  He then solicits offers, but subsequently rejects those offers without coming back with a counter offer.  That's nuts.  I understand you want the books, but by now, the seller knows that you want them.  You've made your offer(s), which have been rejected, without the courtesy of a counter offer.  At this point, I would walk away.  If the seller contacts you again, tell him you already made your offer and it hasn't changed, he can take it or leave it.  Nobody in their right mind is going to pay 9.2 prices for the low to mid grade books that he has and sooner or later he'll figure that out.  It's not like he has a copy of Fantastic Comics 3, while he has desireable books, you can go on ebay anytime of the day and find multiple copies of every one of them.  You took a good swing, but at this point I would cut bait and move on.

it is absurd.

[kav]

No matter what if he comes back after visiting a few LCS do not offer him your top offer from last time.  Make him pay for his idiocy at least a little.

[ADAMANTIUM]

Just curious... I've read most of this thread. But how do you know he wants top dollar or 9.2 prices if he never made a counter-offer?

[ADAMANTIUM]

Does he not agree with the condition that you explain to him?

[kav]

 keep upping your offer until he says ok.  Then say I just wanted to know how much you wanted and since you wouldnt tell me I had to just keep raising my offer.  These books are not worth one 1/4 of what you want for them good day sir.

[Hudson]

6 hours ago, FlyingDonut said:

Be honest and upfront, but don't spend a lot of time trying to educate, because he doesn't want to listen. 

"This is my retail price for this pile, $x"

"I will pay you 50% of $x."

If he balks, ask for his counter. If there isn't one, say thank you very much.

I agree with Donut about not spending too much time with this guy.  It isn't like he has an Action 1 in the lot.  Time is my most valuable commodity and to waste it with someone who is so far out of touch, is not time well spent.

As for the % offered, that is up to you.  I don't sell books, so I can't really say what a fair % is (although 50 seems a bit low to me if you are going to cherry pick the best of the lot).

[SteppinRazor]

If I made an offer and was told it was too low, without a counter offer, I would say, 'if my offer is too low, you must have a number in your head that isn't.  I don't want to keep wasting your time guessing what it is, so if you tell me what would make you happy, I can tell you if I can make the offer or not.'  Then, ball's in their court, I'm not coming back again.