WONDER WOMAN 2 directed by Patty Jenkins (11/1/19) 3 3

[Bosco685]

23 minutes ago, Roger66 said:

Whether an expanded (well conceived) universe like Marvel or stand-alone (vacuous) movies like most DCs, a really-really good movie starts with solid intricate plotlines and intelligent witty dialogue.  DC characters can and should be just as intriguing as Marvels on the big movie screen, however, DC simply gets a big fat D minus in the vast majority of their movies which are juvenile, tedious, boring and mostly devoid of any good plots where fine actors unfortunately are subjected to cliché ridden dumb scripts written by people who either never read comics in their youth and or just sucked big time in their writing (exceptions were the 1st WW movie and the Captain Marvel movie).  The irony is DC does the opposite with most of their cool animation, which I often find witty, stylistic, engaging and overall entertaining.  I am not sure if there are fundamental unfixable problems with DCs approach to live action movies, which even without comparing to Marvels, bring nothing of any interest or merit to these beloved characters.    If you are emotionally vested in say Wolverine, Wonder Woman or Batman for example (and not an 8 year old) don't you want to get into these heroes' heads some, learn about them on a deeper meaningful level and walk away from these movies feeling more connected to them before you entered the theatre (or watched on cable)?  I hold out dim hope that DC gets it right one day and that Marvel's next phase is not an excuse to milk the pockets of an enthralled public with consumer throw-away garbage like most of what we see these days in general (and like what George Lucas did after the trilogy). The bar is often set so so low on what Hollywood dishes out - that garbage often passes for art.  Indeed this part of a speech by Newton N. Minow could easily apply to DC movies not just TV.  My 2 cents. 

"When television is good, nothing — not the theater, not the magazines or newspapers — nothing is better. But when television is bad, nothing is worse. I invite each of you to sit down in front of your television set when your station goes on the air and stay there for a day without a book, without a magazine, without a newspaper, without a profit and loss sheet or a rating book to distract you. Keep your eyes glued to that set until the station signs off. I can assure you that what you will observe is a vast wasteland."^[8]

I have to disagree on the live DC TV and film productions. Although WB sure does tamper with its own productions to the point Suicide Squad turned out to have 6 different versions, or Batman v Superman forced to cut out 30 key minutes that otherwise in the Theatrical Cut you can tell at times where it was clearly removed, they still bring plenty of depth and entertainment despite the studio masters. The shame is WB can't help but step in its own way without recognizing if they would just let things ride with inspired directors, it would turn out great. Which with Joker where WB just ignored the film by having other companies fund it the film turned into one of the most recognized comic book productions for awards and a massive financial win. Just now with bigger bosses at AT&T overriding WB Studios we may see more artistic creativity and less tampering.

Doom Patrol is some of the wildest comic book entertainment squeezed into short seasons. Not just nutty fun, but also deep science plugged in to explain multiverse shifts and character transformations. And if you revisit Batman v Superman Ultimate Edition and realize the viewpoint is from Bruce Wayne's mind and how dark he sees the world due to years of death and pain, you'll see no 8-year old mind need delve into this storyline as it very much is about adult entertainment and challenging how we see the world. And like you noted the DCAU brings some fantastic films. But there is also Young Justice, which now going into its fourth season is fantastic entertainment with a massive showing of the overall DC Universe. And with previous shows like Batman: The Brave & The Bold or even Batman: The Animated Series WB/DC can strike gold leading to fantastic, funny and at times very engaging productions. Even with Man of Steel there it such a great modernization of one of the oldest comic book characters that also brought a massive threat to challenge a being so massively powerful, it has led to a large fanbase that craves more of Henry Cavill and Zack Snyder. Just none of these may fit into your standards of comic book entertainment. That's okay.

But I respect sharing your opinion. It can lead to great discussion. But probably better to focus on reality versus implying these films were made with kids in mind and less about adult entertainment.

 

[piper]

Amongst the DC Live Movies, I’m a fan of Man of Steel and WW. The majority of the animated films are very good. I also like Harley Quinn (TV), Flash, and Arrow.

It’s super disappointing they can’t make consistently good films.

[Bosco685]

27 minutes ago, piper said:

Amongst the DC Live Movies, I’m a fan of Man of Steel and WW. The majority of the animated films are very good. I also like Harley Quinn (TV), Flash, and Arrow.

It’s super disappointing they can’t make consistently good films.

That I can surely get behind. 

[Dark Knight]

Movie was terrible, passed out for a few minutes and thought it was too draggy and long for the storyline.  Only thing I enjoyed was staring at Gal Gadot, like any other mortal man . I definitely will not see it a 2nd time. I would give this movie a D+.  The first one I gave a B+.

[Roger66]

1 hour ago, Bosco685 said:

I have to disagree on the live DC TV and film productions. Although WB sure does tamper with its own productions to the point Suicide Squad turned out to have 6 different versions, or Batman v Superman forced to cut out 30 key minutes that otherwise in the Theatrical Cut you can tell at times where it was clearly removed, they still bring plenty of depth and entertainment despite the studio masters. The shame is WB can't help but step in its own way without recognizing if they would just let things ride with inspired directors, it would turn out great. Which with Joker where WB just ignored the film by having other companies fund it the film turned into one of the most recognized comic book productions for awards and a massive financial win. Just now with bigger bosses at AT&T overriding WB Studios we may see more artistic creativity and less tampering.

Doom Patrol is some of the wildest comic book entertainment squeezed into short seasons. Not just nutty fun, but also deep science plugged in to explain multiverse shifts and character transformations. And if you revisit Batman v Superman Ultimate Edition and realize the viewpoint is from Bruce Wayne's mind and how dark he sees the world due to years of death and pain, you'll see no 8-year old mind need delve into this storyline as it very much is about adult entertainment and challenging how we see the world. And like you noted the DCAU brings some fantastic films. But there is also Young Justice, which now going into its fourth season is fantastic entertainment with a massive showing of the overall DC Universe. And with previous shows like Batman: The Brave & The Bold or even Batman: The Animated Series WB/DC can strike gold leading to fantastic, funny and at times very engaging productions. Even with Man of Steel there it such a great modernization of one of the oldest comic book characters that also brought a massive threat to challenge a being so massively powerful, it has led to a large fanbase that craves more of Henry Cavill and Zack Snyder. Just none of these may fit into your standards of comic book entertainment. That's okay.

But I respect sharing your opinion. It can lead to great discussion. But probably better to focus on reality versus implying these films were made with kids in mind and less about adult entertainment.

 

Thank you for sharing.  We certainly could have a lively debate you and I.  After my utter and total disappointment with the atrocious WW84 (I stopped it after the 54 minute mark) I started noting my thoughts on the Boards about the state of today's media depictions of our favorite superheroes.  So as to not belabor my points here is a quick random short list of some of the best in this genre I have seen.

1) 1st season of Netflix's Daredevil (a total dark masterpiece if ever there was one).  Season 2 was wonderful but not close to the consistency of Season 1 and Season 3 was just good. 

2) HBOs WATCHMEN is brilliant if not as close to perfection as one can get.

3) 1st Wonder Woman movie with Gal was super fun and highly entertaining thus I had esp high hopes for the most forgettable WW84

4) The animation series Young Justice and a lot of Bruce Timm's stuff. 

 

 

[Hudson]

I was a big fan of the first WW movie; considering it one of the better DC movies.

I enjoyed the first 5 or so minutes of WW84.

Then the scene changes, Diana is no longer on Themyscira, and the story line quickly turns to garbage (IMO).

Maybe part of the disappointment comes from the fact that the first movie was so good and from the expectation that this movie would somehow measure up to its predcessor.

[Bosco685]

25 minutes ago, Roger66 said:

Thank you for sharing.  We certainly could have a lively debate you and I.  After my utter and total disappointment with the atrocious WW84 (I stopped it after the 54 minute mark) I started noting my thoughts on the Boards about the state of today's media depictions of our favorite superheroes.  So as to not belabor my points here is a quick random short list of some of the best in this genre I have seen.

1) 1st season of Netflix's Daredevil (a total dark masterpiece if ever there was one).  Season 2 was wonderful but not close to the consistency of Season 1 and Season 3 was just good. 

2) HBOs WATCHMEN is brilliant if not as close to perfection as one can get.

3) 1st Wonder Woman movie with Gal was super fun and highly entertaining thus I had esp high hopes for the most forgettable WW84

4) The animation series Young Justice and a lot of Bruce Timm's stuff. 

1) Daredevil was a dream-come-true for this lifelong fan. It was painful to see how the show just disappeared due to streaming service corporate politics.

2) HBO's Watchmen is as equal to the task as anything Netflix delivered with Marvel. And the show creator went out of his way to follow in the footsteps of Alan Moore. No matter how much I love Zack Snyder's Director's Cut and Ultimate Cut, you have to respect that level of fan loyalty.

3) Even with Joker, the creative team was so dedicated to a very uncomfortable and risky psychological thriller a leading criminologist now uses the movie in his training (old school - click here). Talk about taking a risk that paid off massively creatively and financially.

4) To this day I still feel Captain America: The Winter Soldier and Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. I are the best complete package to come out of the MCU. Amazing stories, incredible casting, the strength of a standalone tale not forced into the corner of a larger universe, and soundtracks that only made those movie that much stronger. Though with Infinity War it was incredible to see so many characters come together so wonderfully in a story that didn't lose its groove like Endgame did. The directors and screenwriters couldn't even agree afterwards how time travel occurred or how it impacted characters in the end. Probably because people just go with, "But look at all the money they made!"

Where you have seen many of the DC films playing to juveniles, let's not kid ourselves about the MCU pandering to the very same folks you assume with GotG Vol. 2 where the crew argues over who is going to drop a load into someone's sleeping bag or Endgame with Captain America stopping to check his own butt out so he can deliver that cringe-worthy line about 'America's azz'.Like Kevin Feige has said - "It will be PG-13 and you'll like it!" Although noted in jest, it is coated in truth what the creative comfort has been for the MCU.

Edited January 3, 2021 by Bosco685

[drotto]

 

[Gatsby77]

45 minutes ago, drotto said:

 

“But they can’t fly commercial because Steve doesn’t have a passport.”

“The guy he’s possessing probably has one.” 

 

[Buzzetta]

@kav had a good question... and I don't have the time to rewatch the movie. 

How did Maxwell Lord know about the dreamstone's existence in the first place?

[kav]

3 minutes ago, Buzzetta said:

@kav had a good question... and I don't have the time to rewatch the movie. 

How did Maxwell Lord know about the dreamstone's existence in the first place?

yep that was a -script hole-you cant just have something that major be unexplained.  he dont seem like kind of guy does a lot of reading and research.

[drotto]

1 minute ago, kav said:

yep that was a --script hole-you cant just have something that major be unexplained.  he dont seem like kind of guy does a lot of reading and research.

In their defense, they did not explain anything about the stone, how it worked, or even showed any interest in being consistent with how wishes were granted.  Loved how they spent time explaining with that the one worker had wished for a Porsche so Maxwell could not give him a second one.  So they establish each person could only get one. That is why he wished to be the stone in the first place. When Barbra wanted a second wish, it was not issue. Ummm, OK. 

[kav]

1 minute ago, drotto said:

In their defense, they did not explain anything about the stone, how it worked, or even showed any interest in being consistent with how wishes were granted.  Loved how they spent time explaining with that the one worker had wished for a Porsche so Maxwell could not give him a second one.  So they establish each person could only get one. That is why he wished to be the stone in the first place. When Barbra wanted a second wish, it was not issue. Ummm, OK. 

they did explain the stone-it was created by an evil god.  You get onewish and max lord gets whatever you have that he wants.  second wish was a boner tho.

[drotto]

2 minutes ago, kav said:

they did explain the stone-it was created by an evil god.  You get onewish and max lord gets whatever you have that he wants.  second wish was a boner tho.

Explained in the most general sense.  It was created, sorta shows up randomly through time causes some badness, and yet more or less flies under the radar.  Nothing about how Maxwell found out about it, or why it was in that store.

[greggy]

21 minutes ago, kav said:

yep that was a --script hole-you cant just have something that major be unexplained.  he dont seem like kind of guy does a lot of reading and research.

That's what she said. 

[greggy]

10 minutes ago, kav said:

they did explain the stone-it was created by an evil god.  You get onewish and max lord gets whatever you have that he wants.  second wish was a boner tho.

That's what she said. 

[kav]

2 minutes ago, drotto said:

Explained in the most general sense.  It was created, sorta shows up randomly through time causes some badness, and yet more or less flies under the radar.  Nothing about how Maxwell found out about it, or why it was in that store.

yep

[kav]

1 minute ago, greggy said:

That's what she said. 

it really was

[kav]

I hope they do a wonder woman 1974-the disco years.

[kav]

 also unexplained was how wonder woman spoke to everyone when the TV camera was busted and also how could they even watch TV when they were running down the street screaming.  And also how psychopaths etc would renounce jack ****.