WONDER WOMAN 2 directed by Patty Jenkins (11/1/19) 3 3

[kav]

plus how did the guy that wished for a coffee renounce it he already drunk it.

[Bosco685]

5 hours ago, drotto said:

Explained in the most general sense.  It was created, sorta shows up randomly through time causes some badness, and yet more or less flies under the radar.  Nothing about how Maxwell found out about it, or why it was in that store.

Didn't they end up finding written records of how the Dreamstone was used throughout time during key periods where entire civilizations died out unexplained? I agree it got confusing at times how the stone logic worked. To include one wish yet I believe at least Minerva used it twice. But the history was clear how it had been recorded over time.

[Bosco685]

4 hours ago, kav said:

plus how did the guy that wished for a coffee renounce it he already drunk it.

Oh. You don't want to see that. It was not pretty.

[Bosco685]

5 hours ago, kav said:

plus how did the guy that wished for a coffee renounce it he already drunk it.

Found the real answer. Though still the movie could have addressed this more effectively in the end (maybe it does and I missed it).

By Diana getting Maxwell Lord to renounce his wish of wanting to be the Dreamstone, any wishes granted during his time of being the Dreamstone are null and void. Which is when we see certain wishes being undone. Such as the wish to have England rid of Irish residents, or the husband that wished his wife dead.

Dreamstone Explained: Origin, History, Rules, Wishes & Weaknesses

Edited January 4, 2021 by Bosco685
Including the Screenrant article

[@therealsilvermane]

11 hours ago, Buzzetta said:

@kav had a good question... and I don't have the time to rewatch the movie. 

How did Maxwell Lord know about the dreamstone's existence in the first place?

There is no logical explanation for Maxwell Lord, a huckster oil saleman, to immediately know what the Dreamstone is and for Diana to not. WW84 is just a dumb movie, a well intentioned dumb movie I think, but still a dumb dumb movie.

[skypinkblu]

4 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

There is no logical explanation for Maxwell Lord, a huckster oil saleman, to immediately know what the Dreamstone is and for Diana to not. WW84 is just a dumb movie, a well intentioned dumb movie I think, but still a dumb dumb movie.

Do we really have SMART comic book movies? Can Thanos really collect a bunch of stones and get rid of half the population by snapping his fingers?

I see them all as fantasy escapes, but that's just me, I guess. Some allow you to escape more easily.

[Bosco685]

5 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

There is no logical explanation for Maxwell Lord, a huckster oil saleman, to immediately know what the Dreamstone is and for Diana to not. WW84 is just a dumb movie, a well intentioned dumb movie I think, but still a dumb dumb movie.

Although WW84 was disappointing for me compared to the first film which is fantastic, I don't get the fixation on this question.

A huckster came into possession of some artifact somewhere in his travels that told of an all-powerful stone that could grant wishes. He probably swindled someone out of it through a tricky deal leading to him becoming aware of this artifact. Knowing how fixated he was on being powerful and admired, it's not that hard to accept this assumption. A con man finding out about a god-created stone and looking for the easy way to his dreams spends all he can to track it down.

[@therealsilvermane]

1 minute ago, skypinkblu said:

Do we really have SMART comic book movies? Can Thanos really collect a bunch of stones and get rid of half the population by snapping his fingers?

I see them all as fantasy escapes, but that's just me, I guess. Some allow you to escape more easily.

I consider myself a film connoisseur  so by no means am I equating Avengers: Endgame with Martin Scorsese's Raging Bull. HBO's Watchmen comes pretty close, though. Sure, comic book movies aren't necessarily smart, but they can be TOLD smartly. Avengers: Endgame, to me, is an example of a comic book movie written, directed, and edited in a smart way. WW84 is not.

[@therealsilvermane]

5 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

Although WW84 was disappointing for me compared to the first film which is fantastic, I don't get the fixation on this question.

A huckster came into possession of some artifact somewhere in his travels that told of an all-powerful stone that could grant wishes. He probably swindled someone out of it through a tricky deal leading to him becoming aware of this artifact. Knowing how fixated he was on being powerful and admired, it's not that hard to accept this assumption. A con man finding out about a god-created stone and looking for the easy way to his dreams spends all he can to track it down.

Then the movie should have spent a few seconds of screen time at least telling us that and maybe shaved a few seconds off his make out session with Babs Minerva.

[Bosco685]

14 minutes ago, skypinkblu said:

Do we really have SMART comic book movies? Can Thanos really collect a bunch of stones and get rid of half the population by snapping his fingers?

I see them all as fantasy escapes, but that's just me, I guess. Some allow you to escape more easily.

I actually started typing that out earlier and knew it would fall on deaf ears. Never did the MCU show Thanos researching the full powers of the Infinity Stones, nor how to logically piece them all together via an Infinity Gauntlet to fully utilize their combined capabilities. It was just assumed he had sorted all this out on his own, and let's get on with the adventure.

[Bosco685]

2 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Then the movie should have spent a few seconds of screen time at least telling us that and maybe shaved a few seconds off his make out session with Babs Minerva.

You mean like the MCU clearly showed all the research Thanos had invested to thoroughly understand the full capabilities of each Infinity Stone and where he identified there was the all-powerful weapon when you join them together into an Infinity Gauntlet? Those scenes were incredible, weren't they?

[theCapraAegagrus]

2 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

You mean like the MCU clearly showed all the research Thanos had invested to thoroughly understand the full capabilities of each Infinity Stone and where he identified there was the all-powerful weapon when you join them together into an Infinity Gauntlet? Those scenes were incredible, weren't they?

Or all of the research that Mar-Vell did to discover what the Tesseract is and that it can be used to create hyperdrives?

Or all of the training that Carol Danvers went through to discover/master her powers after freeing herself from the S.I.?

[Bosco685]

Just now, Angel of Death said:

Or all of the research that Mar-Vell did to discover what the Tesseract is and that it can be used to create hyperdrives?

Or all of the training that Carol Danvers went through to discover/master her powers after freeing herself from the S.I.?

[@therealsilvermane]

9 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

I actually started typing that out earlier and knew it would fall on deaf ears. Never did the MCU show Thanos researching the full powers of the Infinity Stones, nor how to logically piece them all together via an Infinity Gauntlet to fully utilize their combined capabilities. It was just assumed he had sorted all this out on his own, and let's get on with the adventure.

You don't need to. Thanos is slowly introduced to us as an all powerful and intelligent cosmic being. It's not a stretch for him to already know about the Infinity Stones. Just like it wouldn't be a stretch if the Duke of Deception or other similar deity knew all about the Dreamstone. But Max Lord is an ordinary mortral businessman who somehow knows the stone is at the National Museum archives and knows what it is, while Babs and Diana, experts on the subject, know nothing about it.

Edited January 4, 2021 by @therealsilvermane

[Buzzetta]

I don't think that information ruins the movie in the same way that I do not need to know when Kiefer Sutherland's 'Jack Bauer' took bathroom breaks or ate during each season's '24'.

I was merely asking to see if it was explained or there was more to the Maxwell character.  But, Maxwell was important to the movie.  As I said, it is not a great movie, but it is not as bad as some are making it out to be.... 

[Bosco685]

Just now, @therealsilvermane said:

You don't need to. Thanos is slowly introduced to us as an all powerful and intelligent cosmic being. It's not a stretch for him to already know about the Infinity Stones. Just like it wouldn't be a stretch if the Duke of Deception or other similar deity knew all about the Dreamstone. But Max Lord, an ordinary businessman, somehow knows the stone is at the National Museum archives and knows what it is, while Babs and Diana, experts on the subject, know nothing about it.

Interesting.

[@therealsilvermane]

5 minutes ago, Angel of Death said:

Mar-Vell did to discover what the Tesseract is and that it can be used to create hyperdrives

Again, Mar Vell is a Kree alien, so it's not a stretch for her to know. It would be a stretch if Maria Rambeau knew all about the Tesseract, though. Get it? Probably not...

[thunsicker]

4 minutes ago, Buzzetta said:

I don't think that information ruins the movie in the same way that I do not need to know when Kiefer Sutherland's 'Jack Bauer' took bathroom breaks or ate during each season's '24'.

I was merely asking to see if it was explained or there was more to the Maxwell character.  But, Maxwell was important to the movie.  As I said, it is not a great movie, but it is not as bad as some are making it out to be.... 

Yeah, I don't get all the hate.  I didn't particularly like the movie, but I didn't hate it either.  It was just kind of there.  Maybe a 4/10.

On another note...

I watched one review in which there was debate on whether the movie felt like it took place in 1984.  Personally I didn't get the vibe, not like I do in Stranger Things.  There were small things that spoke of the 80's to me, but overall it didn't feel like it to me.  I thought they missed something by not making Max Lord more like Gordon Gekko, but that would have been a very different movie.

[Bosco685]

9 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Again, Mar Vell is a Kree alien, so it's not a stretch for her to know. It would be a stretch if Maria Rambeau knew all about the Tesseract, though. Get it? Probably not...

So with MCU films if they take a longer time to introduce a character or a character is all-powerful/all-knowing, then we just assume they had full knowledge of something?

Are you thinking this through as you type these things? 

[@therealsilvermane]

20 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

Interesting.

Is it interesting for you? I sense you still don't get it. Anyway...

What might have been a cool plot element is if the Duke of Deception, who we can assume might still be around if Ares was in WW1, perhaps put it in Lord's head knowledge of the Dreamstone so that the foolish mortal could do his dirty work for him. But the filmmakers didn't, or at least didn't put it in the final version.